What does the nosebleed indicate? Is she dead in that particular time? Is she looping in time somehow, like Horace Goodspeed?

obviously this takes me back 2 the episode the constant. nosebleeds meant something like the brain can't keep up with the shift in time, and the brain will soon short circuit. which leads to death. so u have to find a constant. something that exists in the future as well as in the past. ....that really doesnt match with what charlotte is going thru on the island right now though....

Charlotte mentioned that she hadn't had nosebleeds since she was a little girl - does that mean she experienced a similar time shift as a child? Perhaps when she left the island the first time?

Charlotte also mentioned some memory problems, specifically with her mother's maiden name. Dan also had memory problems earlier and he's a time traveler.

Well we had the hint that Charlotte was born on the island. If she time-shifted in the past (and also was exposed to radiation??), she needs a constant so she doesn't become totally unstuck and die. We know that this is related to Daniel having this problem, too. He had a caregiver before the freighter, of course.

I'm thinking she's lost her constant.

I just hope she doesn't die :undecide:

Lets see if I can do this correctly..

Daniel had to have Desmond meet him in oxford the first time to become a constant, then met him on the island completing the notion and giving both Desmond and Daniel a constant.

Now, Charlotte (from what we've gathered), has no constant during this time travel and needs one.

So, Daniel asks Desmond to AGAIN meet him in Oxford. So, by either Daniel coming into contact with Desmond, or by Daniel convincing Desmond to return to the island will allow Charlotte to have a constant, thus saving her life before her brain fries?

Also, I believe Daniel's mom will also give Desmond the information he needs to get back to the island.. thus creating a race between him and Ben/Losties.

My mind is blown.. and fried itself. Sorry if it was pieced together wrong. I'm just all sorts of befuzzled after the overload of new info tonight!! :biggrin:

What I don't understand, well another thing I don't understand, is that this situation seems to be different than the constant. There Desmond's consciousness travelled, but not his body. Here in these two episodes, the bodies and consciousness are moving. Do they need a constant?

Charlotte also mentioned some memory problems, specifically with her mother's maiden name. Dan also had memory problems earlier and he's a time traveler.

obviously this takes me back 2 the episode the constant. nosebleeds meant something like the brain can't keep up with the shift in time, and the brain will soon short circuit. which leads to death. so u have to find a constant. something that exists in the future as well as in the past. ....that really doesnt match with what charlotte is going thru on the island right now though....

Yes, I thought of those events in the "Constant" as well.
I'm thinking she's lost her constant.

OOoo...that's an interesting thought! Wonder who it could be if that is the case? And does that mean lost in O6 time or Island time? And is that going to happen to everyone? Do the O6 anchor those Left Behind on the Island?

I think you mean 'Daniel', not "Danielle"....I was confused when I first started reading the post.

But what happens when / if we find out Desmonds mom is the woman we saw talking with Ben in the secret area under the church?

I think you mean 'Daniel', not "Danielle"....I was confused when I first started reading the post.

Thats why I edited the original post! haha

And LostFF, when we find out.. I'm not sure. But it's not a coincidence that her and Daniel are so informed on the time travel. They're linked somehow, whether its by blood, or through experiments and finding something on the island before the other does. Will "Daniel's" mom use Desmond as a way to get to the island as well?
*Just thinking out loud*

Stupid LOST.. i love you, but you make me think too hard. haha

I just don't really get why the nosebleeds only happen to some people and not others and why, for example, Miles or Daniel couldn't be Charlotte's constant since she knew them before the time shift. :shrug: Also, can't the "left-behinds" use the hatch as a constant? I don't get it... :sigh:

Right, Selene, I am terribly confused too. The hatch is a good point. Why not??

A few things. First, way back in the Constant, the creators mentioned that they wanted the experiences of Desmond and Minkowski to be slightly different, to illustrate that not everyone reacts differently to all this time stuff. So I think it answers our questions about why Charlotte gets the nosebleed while the others don't, she is simply just showing the effects earliest.

In The Constant, it wasn't just something that exists in both times, like the Hatch that everyone mentioned, but wasn't it something that you truly cared about? So the Hatch wouldn't work, but something more significant.

Her nosebleed has to do something with the time shift because Daniel was looking through is notebook, as if he had seen/documented this before.

The thing that confuses me is why Charlotte would have nosebleeds as a little girl (implicating time travel, unless I'm reading waaaay too far into this - I just don't see why they would write such a detail in if it weren't important), and as an adult after the time-shift, and not in between. The question that was never answered for me is, in The Constant, while Desmond's 1997 consciousness was flip-flopping between 1997 and 2004, where was Desmond's 2004 consciousness? Why did neither Desmond remember any details from 2004?

I just don't really get why the nosebleeds only happen to some people and not others and why, for example, Miles or Daniel couldn't be Charlotte's constant since she knew them before the time shift. :shrug: Also, can't the "left-behinds" use the hatch as a constant? I don't get it... :sigh:

I don't think her consciousness is time traveling, so I'm unsure of why she's getting nosebleeds as well, as the explanation of Desmond's and Minkowski's conditions were that the brain was unable to distinguish and was basically overloading. The constant is only necessary when your consciousness is flipping between two versions of your own self, which, clearly is not the case with any of these folks.

As for the rules of the constant, remember: it's something that must be in BOTH times and something you REALLY care about. Sure, she's developing feelings for Daniel now, and she may really care about him, satisfying the second condition, but as we saw at the beginning of last season, they weren't a couple until the freighter. It's likely they didn't meet until the freighter, therefore if she WAS engaged in CTT, she wouldn't have Daniel in the previous period, unless she's flipping forward. But there's really not too much logic that would state she's doing that. The time conundrum will be solved by series end, so if she survives, it's unlikely she'd come flipping backwards from the future, and if she did, she would recognize it immediately, having already gone through all the machinations of time shifts on the island. When Desmond was CTTing, his 1996 self was in 2004, and he was completely confused as to what was going on at all. If she was flipping from current present backwards, there would be moments where she would be in a fugue state, and that's something everyone would have noticed.

Did the guy drilling under the orchid have a nosebleed?

Did the guy drilling under the orchid have a nosebleed?

I believe he did, but the problem is that that would be explained by exposure to the exotic matter. And Charlotte was with the rest of the group, so if she was suffering sufficient exposure levels, they would be too. I hope they don't kill her...I love me some Charlotte.

obviously this takes me back 2 the episode the constant. nosebleeds meant something like the brain can't keep up with the shift in time, and the brain will soon short circuit. which leads to death. so u have to find a constant. something that exists in the future as well as in the past. ....that really doesnt match with what charlotte is going thru on the island right now though....

I remember that. Much was forgotten.

Minkowski and his friend crossed the island time barrier or were exposed at the same time I think, and yet his friend ended up in a body bag sooner. Then you have other people on the ship acting oddly - the blood on the walls, Regina reading upside down and then drowning herself. I think we are supposed to get that different people succumb to it at different rates.

My theory is that she's the first victim of the infamous "sickness" that Rousseau so adamantly warned about. I think it is fairly accurate to say that the "sickness" was somewhat explained in the Lost vernacular when 'The Constant' aired. Said sickness dealt with inhabitants that couldn't handle traveling through the space time continuum without some sort of constant (an amalgamation of sci-fi fantasy and real time-travel theory). I think Desmond's situation has always been a unique and special case, since, as Faraday pointed out, he is the only one that is unique. Charlotte is probably the first one, or maybe the only one, that is showing symptoms of what is to become the "sickness". Why is she like this while eveyrone else is fine? Maybe it has to do with the fact that she was born there? Who the hell knows? Anyone care to elaborate further?

Could she have been on the island as a child?Maybe time traveled without remembering? And remember when Miles made a comment to her at the end of season 4 about wanting to leave the island? That scene always stuck with me because of the ability Miles has with dead things..it made me wonder what Charlotte's story was with the island and its past/future.

I used to get nosebleeds when I was a kid but don't anymore, and to the best of my knowledge I have never time traveled. I think it was just her commentary on nosebleeds, not time travel or her past with the island.

I just hope she doesn't die :undecide:

I know how you feel, but when I saw that nosebleed I instantly thought, "Well, Charlotte's dead." I think it's just a matter of time now. Get it?

But I don't think Horace Goodspeed travelled through time...when John saw him he had a nosebleed though. I definitely think she's already dead, but somehow travelled back.

i hope she isn't dead; i quite like her!

but i do have to agree with a previous post; she doesn't need a constant bc her consciousness isn't shifting. Daniel obviously knows that something is going wrong with her and isn't telling her bc he doesn't want to scare her. love has already conquered all with this thing once and its unlikely to do it again.
but it does seem that this is the sickness.

I have to admit, I was thrilled when her nose started bleeding...god I hate her!!

what if she was timetraveled off the island as a baby when the purge was happening? I dont know if this could tie in with the nosebleeds but just thinking out loud...

What's the one thing that Desmond got, that (for all we know) the other people didn't? Serum 4 18 15 16 23 42. I'm guessing that Desmond does not get bloody noses etc, because he's been innoculated.

I'm wondering of Charlotte's family denied her the shots when she was little or something.

I have to admit, I was thrilled when her nose started bleeding...god I hate her!!

hahaha

So, assuming that Ms Hawking is Daniel's mom (which I'm still not terribly convinced she is), has anyone come up with a good reason why Desmond needs to visit her?

If his mom is Ms Hawking, why would she help Desmond... she is clearly working to help Ben. (one of the many reasons I don't think she is Daniel's mom).

My question is not so much why Charlotte's nose is bleeding but why is she the only one on-island that this is happening to? Does everyone else have a constant? Or, is Charlotte special or not special in some that is different from the other on-islanders?

My question is not so much why Charlotte's nose is bleeding but why is she the only one on-island that this is happening to? Does everyone else have a constant? Or, is Charlotte special or not special in some that is different from the other on-islanders?


I had the same thoughts Honbun, why is Charlotte the only one? And why does Daniel act like he can't help her? Isn't that what Daniel did for Desmond or am I confused?

This is one of the better questions to come out of last night, but with not a lot of good answers on the table. Remember at the end of last season when Miles said to Charlotte something about not leaving because she just got back? Is this related in any way?

This is one of the better questions to come out of last night, but with not a lot of good answers on the table. Remember at the end of last season when Miles said to Charlotte something about not leaving because she just got back? Is this related in any way?
Charlotte did say she was looking for where she was born. I wonder if she was on the island for a part of her childhood. If she was could the island have flashed back to a time when there is a child Charlotte somewhere and since adult Charlotte is there that is creating some problems.

Can someone remind me of the significance of the nosebleeds again? I know that Charlotte got one, but I can't remember the meaning behind them. Does it have something to do with her dying or being a "constant"? Thanks.

The nosebleeds in the past seem to only happen to those who become unstuck in time. However, we don't know that this is happening to Charlotte. Right now she is only experiencing weird dreams where she forgets things (like her mother's maiden name). This is similar to what Faraday experienced in season three (not remembering the order of three playing cards). I don't know WHY Charlotte alone would be experiencing this of all those on the Island. She didn't experience a blast of radiation (at least not more than anyone else) or cross the island's time bubble.

Her nose bleed, and being the only one it seems to be having one, concerns me for her future. I like Charlotte Red Ginger...

But it makes me wonder...if nose bleed is pre-curser to death as it was for Minkowski, and Desmond, had he not found Penny, and given Daniel's fondness for Charlotte, could she end up dying and this giving us the reason why faraday was visibly upset when we first see him watching the news about the found flight 815 in the ocean.

I don't think she'll die too soon, if at all, there has to be more story with her.

charlotte cant die yet, we still havent found out her mission on the island yet, or myles or even daniel for that matter. i dont see any of the frieghties dying until we have answers.

Her nose bleed, and being the only one it seems to be having one, concerns me for her future. I like Charlotte Red Ginger...

But it makes me wonder...if nose bleed is pre-curser to death as it was for Minkowski, and Desmond, had he not found Penny, and given Daniel's fondness for Charlotte, could she end up dying and this giving us the reason why faraday was visibly upset when we first see him watching the news about the found flight 815 in the ocean.

I don't think she'll die too soon, if at all, there has to be more story with her.

Faraday was suffering from his own 'time traveling consciousness syndrome' when he saw the crash you are referring to. He was a wreck due to being unstuck in time. That's why he was a visible wreck, and had a caretaker in the background of the shot, and why everyone else referred to him as "Someone who can't even take care of himself."

Nosebleeds only happen to people who have been exposed to radiation or EM and have taken the wrong course off the Island. So Charlotte must have been exposed to radiation or EM at some point. But why start bleeding now? She's time jumping within the confines of the Island thus fulfilling only half of what is required to be sick.

I used to get nosebleeds when I was a kid but don't anymore, and to the best of my knowledge I have never time traveled. I think it was just her commentary on nosebleeds, not time travel or her past with the island.I see where you're coming from but I think it they wouldn't have shown us the nosebleeds connecting to the time travel last season and then have Charlotte suddenly have her first nosebleed since she was a kid while they were currently time shifting unless one had to do with the other.

I'm thinking she's lost her constant.

thats it...shes become unstuck and needs to find her constant

I think Desmond and Minkowski's bleeding is different from Charlotte's. Desmonds mind was bouncing back and forth between two bodies, like his mind couldnt make up where it should be, and thats what cause Minkowski's to die. The constant is needed to remind you of when you are, or rather when you should be, because of the memory loss associated with your mind bouncing around.

Charlotte's is more like the creepy nosebleed from being gassed during the purge, like Horace's. If she was having a 'constant' issues, Daniel would have told her what to do, like he did with Desmond.

This is different. Maybe similar, but different :)

I don't think her nosebleeds are because she needs a constant. I know we've seen the nosebleeds with minkowski and Desmond, and we've come to believe it is because of consicousness jumping through time. BUT we've not seen (so far) any clue that Charlotte's consiousness is jumping. Sure it seem they are all jumping through time with the Island, but then why aren't the other Left Behind-ers experianceing this? I belive (because it has been strongly suggested that Charlotte was born on the Island) that the island jumped to a time when Charlotte was already on the Island. Remember the duplicate bunnies in the Orchid video? Seemed like bad news didn't it.

I think Desmond and Minkowski's bleeding is different from Charlotte's. Desmonds mind was bouncing back and forth between two bodies, like his mind couldnt make up where it should be, and thats what cause Minkowski's to die. The constant is needed to remind you of when you are, or rather when you should be, because of the memory loss associated with your mind bouncing around.

Charlotte's is more like the creepy nosebleed from being gassed during the purge, like Horace's. If she was having a 'constant' issues, Daniel would have told her what to do, like he did with Desmond.

This is different. Maybe similar, but different :)

I agree with you. I think we are going to find out that it is the flashes/noise and the movement in time that is giving Charlotte the nosebleeds and memory loss... not that she lost her constant. Every time she is flashed and "moves" makes her worse. Almost like it is her BODY that is time traveling and not her consciousness... so her consciousness has to catch up with her body and it is truely "blowing her mind"..LOL!

Remember when Desmond TT he moved to each body in time, his clothes changed, his hair changed.. only his conscious TT. Where on the island, their BODIES are moving back and forth so their conscious is having a hard time keeping up.

I am new to the board and this is one of my first posts. I think that when Ben moved the island, the left-behinders were all exposed to radiation, and Charlotte's nosebleeds are a variation of the "sickness" Minkowski and Desmond experienced. They were just time traveling in their minds, but now Charlotte (and the rest of the left-behinders) are physically moving through time. Because of Charlotte's special connection to the island (i.e. she may have been born on it), she is the first to start experiencing symptoms. Eventually, though, all of the left-behinders will start to experience the symptoms if Faraday can't stop the island from jumping through time. I believe this is one of the "very bad things" that Locke told Jack happened on the island after he left.

I am new to the board and this is one of my first posts. I think that when Ben moved the island, the left-behinders were all exposed to radiation, and Charlotte's nosebleeds are a variation of the "sickness" Minkowski and Desmond experienced. They were just time traveling in their minds, but now Charlotte (and the rest of the left-behinders) are physically moving through time. Because of Charlotte's special connection to the island (i.e. she may have been born on it), she is the first to start experiencing symptoms. Eventually, though, all of the left-behinders will start to experience the symptoms if Faraday can't stop the island from jumping through time. I believe this is one of the "very bad things" that Locke told Jack happened on the island after he left.


Welcome to the Lage!! :Welcome:

I agree. It is similar to Minkowski, Desmond, and Eloise... but not exactly the same. They are physically TT, not just conscious. But are they TT or is it the Island?

Whoever had that post about the serum a couple pages back may have been onto something. I'd completely forgotten about that - the only explanation we were ever given is that it would keep people from getting "sick," right? Getting sick.. "the sickness".. I'm thinking these are related. And if the fertility problems on the island do have something to do with its time instabilities, it would make sense that they would give this vaccine to pregnant women, as Ethan did with Claire.

Nosebleeds only happen to people who have been exposed to radiation or EM and have taken the wrong course off the Island. So Charlotte must have been exposed to radiation or EM at some point. But why start bleeding now? She's time jumping within the confines of the Island thus fulfilling only half of what is required to be sick.

Perhaps Charlotte was exposed to "high levels of radiation or electromagnetism" during the "incident" that occurred on the Island that resulted in the button having to be pushed every 108 minutes in 'the hatch'. Charlotte would have to have been a child at that point though. It's possible the incident could have been the Island being moved, as we know Charles Widmore has supposedly been on the island and "left the island" so that could indicate he moved the island. So if this was Charlotte's second time being on the island while it was moved, there could be some adverse side effects taking place to her, i.e. memory loss, nose bleed, etc.

Lets see if I can do this correctly..

Daniel had to have Desmond meet him in oxford the first time to become a constant, then met him on the island completing the notion and giving both Desmond and Daniel a constant.

Now, Charlotte (from what we've gathered), has no constant during this time travel and needs one.

So, Daniel asks Desmond to AGAIN meet him in Oxford. So, by either Daniel coming into contact with Desmond, or by Daniel convincing Desmond to return to the island will allow Charlotte to have a constant, thus saving her life before her brain fries?

Also, I believe Daniel's mom will also give Desmond the information he needs to get back to the island.. thus creating a race between him and Ben/Losties.

My mind is blown.. and fried itself. Sorry if it was pieced together wrong. I'm just all sorts of befuzzled after the overload of new info tonight!! :biggrin:

I think what you said is about right as far as I know. What I don't understand is this- Horace Godspeed was dead when his nose was bleeding so he was affected at some point but did he have a constant? Also why did his nose keep bleeding even thou he had died? Was this just to show again that those who were affected will die and end up like him- stuck on the island? Furthermore why didn't Faraday fill Charlotte in on what's happening to her?

Is it possible that this is the first Island move since the "108" minute hatch was destroyed, and that this is contributing to the instability?:confused:

Charlotte mentioned that she hadn't had nosebleeds since she was a little girl - does that mean she experienced a similar time shift as a child? Perhaps when she left the island the first time?

Really? I thought she said she'd been having them since she was a little girl, like she was shrugging it off as no big deal while Daniel was spooked by it.

Furthermore why didn't Faraday fill Charlotte in on what's happening to her?

I am wondering the same thing and how much time she has left? If he filled her in on it they could start looking for her constant. A relative maybe?

As the on-island people have become unstuck in time after the donkey wheel was turned (and given there is physical time travel and not just CTT), two Charlottes now exist on the island - 20/30 something Charlotte and little girl Charlotte. This results in a potential paradox, risking one or both Charlotte's lives (ala Candle-Halliwax - don't let the bunnies come into contact). That is why both Charlotte's are experiencing nose bleeds -their proximity in time and space causing paradox - and the universe will self correct.

Maybe some kind of constant will save Charlotte - maybe it is the dead polar bear or collar, or maybe it is Ben (he has to get back to the island to save his real daughter).

But I tend to think Miles was right, she will die. She will meet her young girl self, get her burning questions answered - her birthplace and who her father is (Ben), and then in true tragic fashion, die because of it.

QED

As the on-island people have become unstuck in time after the donkey wheel was turned (and given there is physical time travel and not just CTT), two Charlottes now exist on the island - 20/30 something Charlotte and little girl Charlotte. This results in a potential paradox, risking one or both Charlotte's lives (ala Candle-Halliwax - don't let the bunnies come into contact). That is why both Charlotte's are experiencing nose bleeds -their proximity in time and space causing paradox - and the universe will self correct.

QED

That is exactly what I thought. Both Charlotte's exist on the island simultaneously so she is getting a nose bleed and the other Charlotte is getting a nose bleed. Since they seem to be in the past this means the other Charlotte is young Charlotte getting a nosebleed just like she stated she used to.

The other factor though, which no one has really mentioned here, is the memory loss. I feel like since two Charlottes now exist in the same time/space they have to split their consciousness. All the memories Charlotte made from the point she was born to the point young Charlotte starts getting those nose bleeds are in the consiousness of young Charlotte, her mothers maiden name, her father, where she came from etc. Charlotte no longer has those memories, she only knows that she once had them.

Also after rewatching the epi I'm almost 100% sure this is true. When Charlotte tells Daniel she hasnt got a nose bleed like that since she was a kid, Daniel has this strange look of realization going on, like he just figured out what was happening to her based on that statement.

And if you think about Charlotte's scenario as compared to Desmond's, her's seems to be in reverse. Desmond was getting a nosebleed because one consciousness was occupying two times ('96 and '04). For Charlotte it's two consciousness' (Present Charlotte and young Charlotte) occupying one time

Really? I thought she said she'd been having them since she was a little girl, like she was shrugging it off as no big deal while Daniel was spooked by it.No, she definitely said she hadn't had one since she was a girl.

Did seem like she shrugged it off, though. However, Charlotte doesn't know the potential nosebleed/TT/head explode thing, and Daniel's not explaining it right now. So of course she would shrug it off. It's not like she's got a raging bad nosebleed right now.

That is exactly what I thought. Both Charlotte's exist on the island simultaneously so she is getting a nose bleed and the other Charlotte is getting a nose bleed. Since they seem to be in the past this means the other Charlotte is young Charlotte getting a nosebleed just like she stated she used to.
I didn't think of this. Good observation, MTA and WD. Not sure I agree with the other stuff you stated (yet ;) ) but I like this point.

I used to get nosebleeds when I was a kid but don't anymore, and to the best of my knowledge I have never time traveled. I think it was just her commentary on nosebleeds, not time travel or her past with the island.

I agree. I don't necessarily think that it was any reference to Charlotte time traveling in the past. I think the nosebleed is related to the time travel now, but that she doesn't know it. So, naturally, when she gets a nosebleed for no apparent reason, it strikes her as odd, since, she "hasn't had one since she was a kid". I never get nosebleeds, and if I got one out of nowhere, I would comment on it too.

I think what you said is about right as far as I know. What I don't understand is this- Horace Godspeed was dead when his nose was bleeding so he was affected at some point but did he have a constant? Also why did his nose keep bleeding even thou he had died? Was this just to show again that those who were affected will die and end up like him- stuck on the island? Furthermore why didn't Faraday fill Charlotte in on what's happening to her?

Likewise, Anna Lucia also had a nosebleed when she appeared in Eko's vision.This is in contrast to A) Charlotte condition as a physical time traveler and B) Desmond/Minkowski's condition as "consiousness" time travelers. So in short, there seem to be three types of people having nosebleeds:

1) "Dead" people appearing in visions/dreams (Horace, Anna Lucia)
2) "Physical" time travelers (Charlotte)
3)" Consciousness" time travelers (Desmond, Minkowski)

I like the idea of the two Charlottes in the same time causing the nosebleed, but didn't this happen while Desmond was inside the hatch? That would only be about the late nineties at the earliest. Another thing is she looks to be about twenty-five but if she was born on the island she could be way older. I remember a thread where we discussed how she seemed young to have such an advanced education. At any rate she arrived on the freighter looking about 25 in roughly 2005 so she would have been born in 1980 and have been in her late teens by the time Desmond occupied the hatch. Although I don't remember when Desmond arrived on the island it was after 1996.

So in short, there seem to be three types of people having nosebleeds:

1) "Dead" people appearing in visions/dreams (Horace, Anna Lucia)
2) "Physical" time travelers (Charlotte)
3)" Consciousness" time travelers (Desmond, Minkowski)I had nosebleeds when I was boy, and I'm none of these three. It could be she just had nosebleeds when she was little...