Does she blame Kate or not? She's freaking me out.

I don't know if she blames Kate, but I think she is trying to manipulate Kate. Perhaps Widmore (we never did see the result of their conversation) told Sun to say something particular to her. By mentioning Jin, Sun got Kate to feel guilty (whether or not there was any actual blame), and therefore more likely to follow Sun's suggestions.

She is after Jack.. Wow

Originally I was like "oh my god she blames Kate" I knew she blamed Jack, who doesn't?:biggrin: but yes she was freakin me out.

Does she blame Kate or not? She's freaking me out.

i agree. i can't figure her out. that creepy smile and then, "how's jack". it's almost like she already knew what has happened between the two.

she first says that kate should "take care" of the men harrassing her. then she blatantly tells her that she(kate) made the decision not to go after jin like she said she would. the smile gave me the creeps. and poor kate crying like that.

i'm sure sun blames everyone on that helicopter for not going back down to get jin.

i don't think she blames kate, i think it's jack

she wants to keeeeeeeel Jack xD

that was creepy-*** man. I Love creepy sun!

I agree that she blames Jack much more than Kate. Good point about Widmore. Is Sun going to try to get the O6 to go with HER and Widmore? Instead of Jack and Ben? Sun v. Jack. That could be interesting.....

In a preview we do see Sun pointing a gun and Kate looking shocked.

I don't know if she blames Kate, but I think she is trying to manipulate Kate. Perhaps Widmore (we never did see the result of their conversation) told Sun to say something particular to her. By mentioning Jin, Sun got Kate to feel guilty (whether or not there was any actual blame), and therefore more likely to follow Sun's suggestions.

I agree. Sun is trying to get them on her and Widmore's side so they can go against Ben.

I am so freaking mad at my cable company. My dvr box went totally wonky (even though I was watching live) and for some reason it completely cut out this scene with Kate nad Sun. It just got stuck on some stupid toliet paper commercial and didn't start working again until Hurley's dad was passing Sayid to Jack.

Could some kind soul please fill me in on the details of that scene!?!?! I would really appreciate it!!!

She looked creepy indeed. Kind of like Bree on Desperate Housewives in the quick segue to "How's Jack?"
Yet what she said to Kate was sensible - she made a hard decision and if they'd waited for Jin, probably all of them would have died. But Sun is the kind to hold a grudge and place the blame, so she's out for something else.

Sun told her father that she blamed two people for what happened to Jin. We know that one of the two is her father. The writers are doing a good job of creating a mystery about the other person. It appears from tonight's episode that it is Jack. Also Sun implied to Charles Widmore that she is "with him" in wanting to find and kill Ben. But I think that both are red herrings. I think that the other person is Widmore and that Sun is only appearing to work with him so that she can get close enough to him to really do him some damage.

She could be angry at Desmond. Desmond left Micheal and Jin with the bomb, and got to the helicopter in time to survive. She knows that Widmore also has a grudge with Desmond, so it would make sense that she would look to him as an alli.

i'm not entirely sure what is going on with her. she has already told her father that he is 1 of 2 people she blames for jin's death. in the final scene of season 4 where ben confronts jack and tells him they have to round up everyone to go back, jack says of sun "she blames me for..." and then trails off. so you would think the 2 people are mr. paik and jack, but she also told widmore she wants ben dead. and she is really creepy with kate, but i think she genuinely forgives/doesn't blame kate. but she also sees that kate must protect aaron because jin, in the overall scheme, sacrificed his life so that aaron (among others) could be saved.

but is jin really even dead..... ?

Sun told her father that she blamed two people for what happened to Jin. We know that one of the two is her father. The writers are doing a good job of creating a mystery about the other person. It appears from tonight's episode that it is Jack. Also Sun implied to Charles Widmore that she is "with him" in wanting to find and kill Ben. But I think that both are red herrings. I think that the other person is Widmore and that Sun is only appearing to work with him so that she can get close enough to him to really do him some damage.

Good theory! Because for me her blaming Jack at all makes absolutely no sense! She herself told Kate that had they not left then they all would have been dead including her and her new born baby so I dont get whats her deal if it is Jack.

I think your right she is playing Charles Widimore.

Sun told her father that she blamed two people for what happened to Jin. We know that one of the two is her father. The writers are doing a good job of creating a mystery about the other person. It appears from tonight's episode that it is Jack. Also Sun implied to Charles Widmore that she is "with him" in wanting to find and kill Ben. But I think that both are red herrings. I think that the other person is Widmore and that Sun is only appearing to work with him so that she can get close enough to him to really do him some damage.

I hope that is what is happening.

I am so freaking mad at my cable company. My dvr box went totally wonky (even though I was watching live) and for some reason it completely cut out this scene with Kate nad Sun. It just got stuck on some stupid toliet paper commercial and didn't start working again until Hurley's dad was passing Sayid to Jack.

Could some kind soul please fill me in on the details of that scene!?!?! I would really appreciate it!!!

Ok, so, basically Sun asks Kate what is wrong, Kate tries to say nothing, but when she sees that Aaron is napping, she tells Sun about the lawyers coming. Sun asks who sent the lawyers, Kate doesn't know, and Sun says that they are after Aaron, not exposing the lie. If they wanted to expose the lie, they would just do it. she then tells Kate she must protect Aaron at any cost. Kate questions her on this and Sun says 'wouldn't you do anything for him?' and then proceeds to recount how Kate saved Aaron on the freighter nad promised Sun that she'd go back for Jin but didn't. She is blaming Kate. And Kate starts to bawl and says how sorry she is. But then Sun says that she doesn't blame Kate. That if Kate hadn't done that, they all would have died, not just "my husband." It was creepy. And then she brightly says, "How's Jack?"

I keep telling myself, "Don't trust Sun Kate". :hide:

She's after Jack. And she's manipulating Kate through guilt. Apple sure doesn't fall far from the tree - she's worse than her father ever dreamed of being!

Ok, so, basically Sun asks Kate what is wrong, Kate tries to say nothing, but when she sees that Aaron is napping, she tells Sun about the lawyers coming. Sun asks who sent the lawyers, Kate doesn't know, and Sun says that they are after Aaron, not exposing the lie. If they wanted to expose the lie, they would just do it. she then tells Kate she must protect Aaron at any cost. Kate questions her on this and Sun says 'wouldn't you do anything for him?' and then proceeds to recount how Kate saved Aaron on the freighter nad promised Sun that she'd go back for Jin but didn't. She is blaming Kate. And Kate starts to bawl and says how sorry she is. But then Sun says that she doesn't blame Kate. That if Kate hadn't done that, they all would have died, not just "my husband." It was creepy. And then she brightly says, "How's Jack?"

It was odd. I think Sun is holding several grudges and I didn't buy her story to Kate about how she made "hard choices" on the freighter. Kate was clearly intending to go back for Jin but Jack interfered. Perhaps Sun is blaming them both, Jack for interfering and Kate for allowing him to stop her. Or not. But the timing of her visit to Kate, someone who she apparently hasn't been in contact with for years, was very curious. Righ after a visit with Widmore? Highly suspect methinks.

Sun told her father that she blamed two people for what happened to Jin. We know that one of the two is her father. The writers are doing a good job of creating a mystery about the other person. It appears from tonight's episode that it is Jack. Also Sun implied to Charles Widmore that she is "with him" in wanting to find and kill Ben. But I think that both are red herrings. I think that the other person is Widmore and that Sun is only appearing to work with him so that she can get close enough to him to really do him some damage.

I agree with your premise. My guess is Ben has gotten to her, and she's working for/with him. Ben would be in a position to inform her that Chuck Widmore was ultimately responsible for Jin's death. Ben also wants/needs Sun to return with him to the Island, so he's going to work it.

Her acting reminded me of the Eve Kendall character in North By Northwest.

I'm trying to think of why Sun's desire to "kill Benjamin Linus" would, after talking to Widmore, lead her to contacting Kate. I guess Widmore has an interest in either Kate or Aaron or both.

She was right about someone not really wanting the lie to be exposed, though. So I think we can rule out any of Claire or Aaron's blood relatives being involved, for the time being.

Ok, so, basically Sun asks Kate what is wrong, Kate tries to say nothing, but when she sees that Aaron is napping, she tells Sun about the lawyers coming. Sun asks who sent the lawyers, Kate doesn't know, and Sun says that they are after Aaron, not exposing the lie. If they wanted to expose the lie, they would just do it. she then tells Kate she must protect Aaron at any cost. Kate questions her on this and Sun says 'wouldn't you do anything for him?' and then proceeds to recount how Kate saved Aaron on the freighter nad promised Sun that she'd go back for Jin but didn't. She is blaming Kate. And Kate starts to bawl and says how sorry she is. But then Sun says that she doesn't blame Kate. That if Kate hadn't done that, they all would have died, not just "my husband." It was creepy. And then she brightly says, "How's Jack?"

Thanks Laura! I really appreciate the recap! I really wish I had seen it. I guess I'll have to try and watch it online tomorrow, if I want to experience all of Sun's creepiness for myself.

I think it was a little kooky for Sun to be all like "they must want Aaron!!" out of nowhere. I mean as far as Kate & Sun should be concerned he's just an innocent little boy & not someone "special" so where did that come from? If anything I'd speculate that the people that convicted Kate would want to implicate her some other way. I wouldn't even have thought about Aaron.

Btw, I also think Sun totally blames Kate. (and should.)

Anyone else feel like Sun was blaming Kate for at least part of Jin's death? I know she said she doesn't blame her but her facial expressions were really creepy, I wasn't sure what she was meaning. I kept thinking that any moment one of those lawyers were going to pop out of a closet or something.

BTW what is she doing in L.A anyway? Her bing there just threw me.

Anyone else feel like Sun was blaming Kate for at least part of Jin's death? I know she said she doesn't blame her but her facial expressions were really creepy, I wasn't sure what she was meaning. I kept thinking that any moment one of those lawyers were going to pop out of a closet or something.

BTW what is she doing in L.A anyway? Her bing there just threw me.

Yeah its really hard to know who she blames other then her father. Last season I thought it would be Jack but then we see her blaming Ben, then she has tea with Kate and it seems she blames both Kate and Jack and then I heard a theory somewhere around here where she could be blaming Wildimore and she and Ben are secretly working together.

Who knows? But I will say something, instead of placing the blame at everyone and anyones feet she can she should realize like she told Kate that had Kate AND Jack not lead her to that helicopter not only would have Jin died but so would ALL of them including her and her unborn child so she should be thankful to both Jack and Kate instead of seemingly blaming them.

I think she planted the seed of doubt in Kate's head because she was all apologetic and crying.

Anyone else feel like Sun was blaming Kate for at least part of Jin's death? I know she said she doesn't blame her but her facial expressions were really creepy, I wasn't sure what she was meaning. I kept thinking that any moment one of those lawyers were going to pop out of a closet or something.

BTW what is she doing in L.A anyway? Her bing there just threw me.

It did seem that way didn't it? She was very brutal in her discussion with Kate.Then she made that comment about Jack and it made me think she blames Jack. I don't trust Sun at all. Someone mentioned that it was wierd that Sun showed Kate a picture of Ji Yeon so young when she should be close to Aaron's age. What's up with that?

I think Sun was there either hoping Kate would lead her to Ben, or was there for Aaron. Maybe through Widmore, Sun knows Ben is with Jack and that's why Sun was asking Kate about Jack.

Anyway it would seem the 3 people Sun blames for Jin's death are her father, Ben and Kate/Jack.

I kinda got the feeling Sun was up to something.

I kinda got the feeling Sun was up to something.

Yep, Sun was manipulating Kate, and guilt is an excellent way to do that... just ask my mother. :)

Who knows though, we could totally be fooled though. Sun could be working for Ben and is gaining Widmore's trust, and either kill Widmore or Penny. So instead of blaming Ben for Jin's death, she's blaming Widmore. Just another example of a long con.

Oh yeah. Sun is after Kate. Big Time. Sun completely blames Kate for not going into the ship and getting Jin like she said she would. I think Kate was just herded right to Sun!

Yeah she is definitely up to no good. She was throwing on the guilt when it came to Kate for sure. Like it was mentioned earlier, she shouldn't put blame on anyone because if they would've truly gotten Jin, everyone would have died.

Maybe she doesn't blame Kate because Kate did actually make an attempt to go and get Jin, however Jack realized that if anyone went and tried, no one was making it off the freighter. Once again, a hugely difficult decision and Jack gets the shaft for it.

I think it was a little kooky for Sun to be all like "they must want Aaron!!" out of nowhere. I mean as far as Kate & Sun should be concerned he's just an innocent little boy & not someone "special" so where did that come from? If anything I'd speculate that the people that convicted Kate would want to implicate her some other way. I wouldn't even have thought about Aaron.

Btw, I also think Sun totally blames Kate. (and should.)

Unless I'm missing the boat here, Sun's clearly on a differant informational/power level than Kate. She's also been in contact/cahoots with Widmore. Kate's not the endgame here.

I don't understand how Sun could know to blame Ben. Does Sun know the boat blew up because Ben stabbed Keamy in the throat? Of course, I would just assume the O6 and the left behinds could blame Ben for anything and still be within reason, but seriously. How could she know what happened at the Orchid. She has to be blaming her dad and Jack.

I think someone could make an educated guess that Ben had something to do with it. He hasn't exactly been a bed of roses to any of the Losties.

If I were on the island and lost my shoes, I would blame Ben.

The whole scene caught me off guard.
A lot of room to interpret emotions.....
I need to watch this again.

The whole scene caught me off guard.
A lot of room to interpret emotions.....
I need to watch this again.

Same here, the last person I thought would be behind the door when Kate knocked would've been Sun. It was a very strange meeting and I'm not entirely sure what to think of it.

Yeah, Sun's definately up to something. I got these creepy manipulative vibes from her when she was talking to Kate. I think she was throwing a hint at Kate that she does in some way blame her, but did some reverse psychology by telling her she didn't blame her afterwards.

All of the characters changed once they got off the island, and I think Sun may be turning over a sinister new leaf. We've learned about her lying before to manipulate people at their own cost, so it could be that Jin's (supposed) death just flipped the switch for her, and she's going down the Ben route of vengence-a very broad one at that it seems.

Yeah, Sun's definately up to something. I got these creepy manipulative vibes from her when she was talking to Kate. I think she was throwing a hint at Kate that she does in some way blame her, but did some reverse psychology by telling her she didn't blame her afterwards.

All of the characters changed once they got off the island, and I think Sun may be turning over a sinister new leaf. We've learned about her lying before to manipulate people at their own cost, so it could be that Jin's (supposed) death just flipped the switch for her, and she's going down the Ben route of vengence-a very broad one at that it seems.

Yep I definitely got the vengence-vibe from Sun, and I'm not liking it. I hope I'm wrong.

It was odd. I think Sun is holding several grudges and I didn't buy her story to Kate about how she made "hard choices" on the freighter. Kate was clearly intending to go back for Jin but Jack interfered. Perhaps Sun is blaming them both, Jack for interfering and Kate for allowing him to stop her. Or not. But the timing of her visit to Kate, someone who she apparently hasn't been in contact with for years, was very curious. Righ after a visit with Widmore? Highly suspect methinks.

Sun was already on her way to LA before she even knew she was going to encounter Widmore, though.

Agree that Sun was super creepy. She may blame Jack the most, but I think she's angry at Kate as well. There was no genuine warmth in her, it was all fake. A couple of questions: how would she know that Ben is blameworthy? She doesn't know that Ben killed Keamy, causing the ship to blow up. From what she saw of Ben on the island, he was the one arguing against trusting the freighties. Is she getting info from Widmore, and would even he know that's what happened, or is there another reason she's blaming Ben? Or is she extrapolating from what was said by Michael, Des etc on the freighter?

Also, how would she immediately jump to the conclusion that the "lawyers" who came to Kate's are after Aaron? I know she's shrewd, and her reasoning is probably right that if they wanted to expose the O6, they would just do that and not bother with a blood test. So I guess wanting to get Aaron is the only logical alternative, but it still seemed a little weird to me that she came up with that explanation so quickly.

And her statement to Kate that she needs to do whatever it takes to protect Aaron -- was she implying Kate somehow "eliminate" the "lawyers?" Then she launched into her snarky "you make the hard decisions" speech, so I didn't know if she was just trying to be nasty and subtly insult Kate or if she was actually trying to suggest Kate should go on the offensive against those two guys.

I agree it is possible that Ben has gotten to Sun and she's playing Widmore, but it's also possible that she's acting out of revenge and bitterness and if she's going to be on the O6's side, she'll have to have some sort of conversion experience.

Thoughts?

Sun told her father that she blamed two people for what happened to Jin. We know that one of the two is her father. The writers are doing a good job of creating a mystery about the other person. It appears from tonight's episode that it is Jack. Also Sun implied to Charles Widmore that she is "with him" in wanting to find and kill Ben. But I think that both are red herrings. I think that the other person is Widmore and that Sun is only appearing to work with him so that she can get close enough to him to really do him some damage.

Bingo!! I've thought this all along because when is Sun ever straight forward?? She plays her own agenda until she gets things lined up the way she wants them. Widmore was responsible for the freighter being out there with mercenaries on it. Widmore hired the mercs. What better way to disarm Widmore than to "team up" with him?? However, it's not gonna be played that way for a while, I would imagine. I think they're going to keep her Itrue grudge close to the vest for a while even taking into account the previews.

I agree. Sun is trying to get them on her and Widmore's side so they can go against Ben.

I'm kind of thinking that Sun is playing both side of the card and is, in fact, after Widmore. Afterall, it was HIS freighter that Jin was "killed" on.

Sun is now what Sayid was.
Dog gonnit.

I kinda got the feeling Sun was up to something.

The verbal part:
"I don't blame Jack. Where is he by the way?"

The non-verbal part:
"I wish to kill him for leaving my husband on the boat when it exploded. I wish to kill him very very slowly. More tea?"

I'm going with the non-verbal part. Who's with me?

i think Sun was totally blaming Kate. Especially with that little dig at the end, "So how are u and Jack?" Like, how is your love life since you screwed up mine. I believe Sun will be evil this season. I hope Jin is still alive tho

Sun's extra shady these days.

I think the scene was there to hint that she blames Jack. Maybe she blamed Kate too, but they focused on her emotions and made it seem like Sun was touched by them. Also she only asked how was Jack, not how the two of them were (right?).

I think Sun is only telling widmore she wants to kill ben to get widmore's help to find him to get back to the island or to get to jack.

The look she gave Kate was almost identical to the look she gave to Jin's "blackmailing" mother in Korea.
A great cold, calculating look...."So, How's Jack?"

Ya, i believe Sun is playing Widmore using Paik hvy Ind. and Ben to play Widmore into her trap theres no way she would team up to kill Ben shes never even spoken to Ben.

Yeah its really hard to know who she blames other then her father. Last season I thought it would be Jack but then we see her blaming Ben, then she has tea with Kate and it seems she blames both Kate and Jack and then I heard a theory somewhere around here where she could be blaming Wildimore and she and Ben are secretly working together.
.
I never thought about that, and now that I do, I like it. :coolorng: I even like it better then her working with Widmore to seek vengance on Ben. She knows that Widmore sent the boat, she wouldn't know about Keamy and his dead man's trigger though or the part that Ben played in it. Of all the Losties, she would be the perfect one to get to Widmore the way she has. I really hope she hasn't turned. I don't like mean Sun.

I think there is a list of people Sun blames.
Her father, the reason they were on the plane.
Widmore, since he sent the freighter.
Kate, because she handed Aaron to her and told her to get on the choper and then didn't return with Jin.
Jack because he wouldn't let the choper circle around to look for Jin.
Ben, because he is usually behind everything that happens.

Ya, i believe Sun is playing Widmore using Paik hvy Ind. and Ben to play Widmore into her trap theres no way she would team up to kill Ben shes never even spoken to Ben.

I posted earlier in this thread wondering why Sun would be plotting against Ben, when there's no way she'd know Ben was responsible for the explosion when he killed Keamy; all she knew of Ben was his pleading with Jack NOT to contact the freighter.

BUT I realized that Bentham/Locke had probably gone to see her as he had the other O6ers, and that he is the one person who knows that Ben killed Keamy and that that is what blew up the ship.

So Sun does have a motive to kill Ben, even though she also has a motive to get Widmore, who after all sent the ship and Keamy and the explosives.

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking Sun is after Kate as opposed to Jack. Afterall Kate has screwed with Sun more than once, including when she talked Sun into poisoning Jin (Michael) in order for Kate to take his place on the raft. I also think Sun may blame Kate for separating Aaron from Claire.

I LOVE YOU GUYS ..... I started a post under "Because You Left" titled Ji Yeon - too young? (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php.t=105603)

I had just started to put my thoughts together but this thread has sealed my ideas.

If you noticed in the scene between Kate and Sun there was a picture show to Kate of Ji Yeon ... but Ji Yeon was only a few months old and at this point she be relatively close to the same age as Aaron, 2 to 3 years old. So I thought to myself why would Sun not have a more recent picture of the baby?

Some people suggested that she didnt trust Kate but in that case I just dont think Sun would show a picture at all.
Some suggested it may have been a casting issue, but again the writters could have just left that little moment out.

There is also the strange way that Sun is treating Kate - some are saying it is because she blames Kate or Jack for Jin's death and I think that could be partially true. But Hurley was also on the helicopter and when Hurley came to visit Sun in Korea it was very friendly. Why the sudden change??

I think - "they" stole the baby (who is "they" I'm not sure yet and I dont think Sun is either) But this could explain a few things.

1 - why she doesnt have a picture of Ji Yeon beyond the age of approxiamtely 6 months
2 - why she is so determined to take control of her father's business, meet with Widmore and try to kill Ben (I'm guessing she thinks one, if not all of them, were responsible)
3 - it explains the odd comments that she made to Kate about how they might want Aaron and how she would do ANYTHING to protect her child.

that is a really good suggestion but in the scene in london last season where Sun confronts Widmore she is previously on the phone with her mother talking to Ji-yeon and we are lead to believe that is in 2007. And that is when she originally tells Widmore we have common business interests. So if the baby were missing itd have to have happned after 2007 or that date atleast but that is the date that she tells widmore hey we have common goals and she is heard talking to her daughter before she confronts him.

Sun definitely has a complex hidden agenda. I think she blames all of them, and is going out of her way to turn them on each other. I think she set up the paternity suit, and hired the men who went after Sayid and Hurley. You wait, she's gonna turn out to be a bigger villain than Ben and Widmore combined.

btw,
If I were on the island and lost my shoes, I would blame Ben.

:23wtp28_jpg:

Sun definitely has a complex hidden agenda. I think she blames all of them, and is going out of her way to turn them on each other. I think she set up the paternity suit, and hired the men who went after Sayid and Hurley. You wait, she's gonna turn out to be a bigger villain than Ben and Widmore combined.

I thought that also, the way she reacted to Kate telling her about the Lawyers. Her answers seemed a little strange. Sun's always been a spitting image of her father.

It was odd. I think Sun is holding several grudges and I didn't buy her story to Kate about how she made "hard choices" on the freighter. Kate was clearly intending to go back for Jin but Jack interfered. Perhaps Sun is blaming them both, Jack for interfering and Kate for allowing him to stop her. Or not. But the timing of her visit to Kate, someone who she apparently hasn't been in contact with for years, was very curious. Righ after a visit with Widmore? Highly suspect methinks.

I think Sun blames them both but mostly blames Jack. She did want to take the opportunity to make Kate feel bad, though, that's for sure.

Thanks Laura! I really appreciate the recap! I really wish I had seen it. I guess I'll have to try and watch it online tomorrow, if I want to experience all of Sun's creepiness for myself.

You're welcome. It's goo to be around old friends 'Lage friends!

Sun was already on her way to LA before she even knew she was going to encounter Widmore, though.

Good point but that doesn't mean that her motivations behind her conversation with Kate didn't change after she talked to Widmore. We still have no idea what she was originally going to LA for. I wonder if it had to do with Jack and/or Ben and/or Bentham/Locke.


I agree it is possible that Ben has gotten to Sun and she's playing Widmore, but it's also possible that she's acting out of revenge and bitterness and if she's going to be on the O6's side, she'll have to have some sort of conversion experience.

Thoughts?

I hope so. That might be the reason she was originally coming to LA in the first place -- b/c of Ben organizing them all to return. At the end of The Lie, Ben is most concerned about getting Hurley who just gave himself up to the police. No mention of how he is getting to find Sun and get her.

I think Sun is only telling widmore she wants to kill ben to get widmore's help to find him to get back to the island or to get to jack.

I honestly think the big end goal for her is to get back to the island and see if Jin is really dead.

The look she gave Kate was almost identical to the look she gave to Jin's "blackmailing" mother in Korea.
A great cold, calculating look...."So, How's Jack?" Oh, yeah.... forgot about that. She's always had this creepy streak in her, that's for sure.

I posted earlier in this thread wondering why Sun would be plotting against Ben, when there's no way she'd know Ben was responsible for the explosion when he killed Keamy; all she knew of Ben was his pleading with Jack NOT to contact the freighter.

BUT I realized that Bentham/Locke had probably gone to see her as he had the other O6ers, and that he is the one person who knows that Ben killed Keamy and that that is what blew up the ship.

So Sun does have a motive to kill Ben, even though she also has a motive to get Widmore, who after all sent the ship and Keamy and the explosives.

Right, good point. Locke must have gotten to Sun before he died (or "died") and that is why she is in LA.

I LOVE YOU GUYS ..... I started a post under "Because You Left" titled Ji Yeon - too young? (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php.t=105603)

I had just started to put my thoughts together but this thread has sealed my ideas.

If you noticed in the scene between Kate and Sun there was a picture show to Kate of Ji Yeon ... but Ji Yeon was only a few months old and at this point she be relatively close to the same age as Aaron, 2 to 3 years old. So I thought to myself why would Sun not have a more recent picture of the baby?

Some people suggested that she didnt trust Kate but in that case I just dont think Sun would show a picture at all.
Some suggested it may have been a casting issue, but again the writters could have just left that little moment out.

There is also the strange way that Sun is treating Kate - some are saying it is because she blames Kate or Jack for Jin's death and I think that could be partially true. But Hurley was also on the helicopter and when Hurley came to visit Sun in Korea it was very friendly. Why the sudden change??

I think - "they" stole the baby (who is "they" I'm not sure yet and I dont think Sun is either) But this could explain a few things.

1 - why she doesnt have a picture of Ji Yeon beyond the age of approxiamtely 6 months
2 - why she is so determined to take control of her father's business, meet with Widmore and try to kill Ben (I'm guessing she thinks one, if not all of them, were responsible)
3 - it explains the odd comments that she made to Kate about how they might want Aaron and how she would do ANYTHING to protect her child.

Very interesting idea. I am not sure how much we can read into it. I was thinking that it was a baby picture just because it was a favorite that she liked to carry around. But you could very well be right and that is why she immediately jumped to the conclusion that someone is after Aaron. Of course, I am in the camp that the lawyers who came to Kate's door were hired by Ben in order to eventually convince her to go back to the island. But who knows... we'll see!

I think she is in full on vengeance mode. I think she has plenty of blame to go around, Ben, Jack, Kate, everyone on the freighter...

The verbal part:
"I don't blame Jack. Where is he by the way?"

The non-verbal part:
"I wish to kill him for leaving my husband on the boat when it exploded. I wish to kill him very very slowly. More tea?"

I'm going with the non-verbal part. Who's with me?

Me!
:laugh: Hilarious - and oh-so-true - summary, Papa!

So maybe they haven't taken Ji Yeon yet ... but maybe they have tried. That could be why Sun doesn't want to flash her picture around. She's afraid they are still after her. Perhaps she wants to kill Ben in hopes that he is the one who is after Ji Yeon. Killing Ben would then be the best way for her to protect her child.

I have this idea that Sun wouldn't be pleased that Kate might be hiding behind the idea of her having a baby and thus using that to get some kind of sympathy which could've have helped her to escape justice. I think that Sun, who has the opinion that a baby belongs with it's mother (remember her reprimanding Claire when Claire left Aaron with Sun in order to go with Kate to find Daniele), would think that Kate should've looked for Aaron's really family, and perhaps she even knows that Claire's mom is alive. However, would that mean that Sun is behind getting those "lawyers" to come to Kate's house?... Not so sure I'd go that far. I think she's just displeased with how Kate has handled the situation with Aaron, claiming that he is her son.

I thought it was obvious she does blame Kate. The way she sees it, Kate told her she would go get Jin but then quickly changed her mind about that and turned back around. Watch that scene again, the way she says it even made Kate look up at her with alarm. She sensed the venom underneath the words.That's when Sun reassures her that she doesn't blame her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she's the one who called the dogs on Kate

If Sun has a problem with Kate taking Aaron then she should have spoken up on the boat or told the authorities once they hit shore. Same with everyone else who was there; they all agreed to keep Aaron from his next-of-kin and if the situation was made public then they would all be implicated in aiding a kidnapping. I still think we'll learn that there's more of a reason why they decided it was necessary to pass Aaron off as Kate's son. And I think Penny must have told them that they had to.

If Sun is really intent on blaming everyone and wreaking blanket revenge then I think she'll end up dead by the end of this season. The writers contrasted her in a really unflattering way with Hurley, who swore to take revenge on Sayid while they were on the boat. But when push came to shove Hurley proved that it just wasn't in his nature to even think about doing something like that.

Sun definitely has a complex hidden agenda. I think she blames all of them, and is going out of her way to turn them on each other. I think she set up the paternity suit, and hired the men who went after Sayid and Hurley. You wait, she's gonna turn out to be a bigger villain than Ben and Widmore combined.

btw,


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I'm not sure Sun did all that. Who is the biggest manipulator we know? Ben. And he knows that he as to get the o6 + john back to the island. When Jack was freaking out in the funeral home about getting them all back, Ben said something like, "let me take care of that." I think he's behind it. He's hired the lawyers to freak Kate out. He knows she can't run, but if Aaron was threatened--she'd run.

Sun telling Kate to basically kill anyone who came across her and Aaron makes me think Sun wants her in prison just like Hurley has been. Widmore behind it all, stopping the losties from returning

Fascinating. I like all your ideas and now you have me questioning what I was pretty sure I knew. Not like the writers aren't already doing a fine job!
Getting Kate on the run again IS what Ben would do if he wanted to force her hand in returning to the island. But Sun WAS "concerned" about making her plane to LA which gave me the feeling Sun's call to Kate, and being conveniently close-by just at the right time to take her in for tea, was planned.
Sun is fascinating because, as we've discovered these last seasons, she is not the delicate flower she seemed to be.
Here's what I know:
Jin isn't dead. He just isn't.
Sun believes he is. I'm a little fuzzy on this one but I'm pretty sure.
Sun is using Kate's feelings of guilt to manipulate her. I think Sun was telling the truth when she said she doesn't blame Kate. I think Kate's reaction to hearing her say that was coming from the fact that Kate blames herself and has been carrying around that guilt and with it, the fear that Sun does blame her. I think Sun is focused on the puppeteers of the situation, not the players. She has and agenda and she has a plan to carry it out. She has money and power and a need for revenge.
I would add Lock into the list of possibilities of the people Sun holds responsible for Jin's death.
I'm pretty sure Sun played a role in his death.

I don't understand how Sun could know to blame Ben. Does Sun know the boat blew up because Ben stabbed Keamy in the throat? Of course, I would just assume the O6 and the left behinds could blame Ben for anything and still be within reason, but seriously. How could she know what happened at the Orchid. She has to be blaming her dad and Jack.

Remember she had that conversation with Michael on the freighter. And she knows how evil Ben is without us having seen her being told specifics on the show. She didn't exactly welcome Juliet into the beach camp with open arms. The Losties talk to one another. We just don't get to hear all the conversations because of time constraints.

I'm not sure Sun did all that. Who is the biggest manipulator we know? Ben. And he knows that he as to get the o6 + john back to the island. When Jack was freaking out in the funeral home about getting them all back, Ben said something like, "let me take care of that." I think he's behind it. He's hired the lawyers to freak Kate out. He knows she can't run, but if Aaron was threatened--she'd run.

Ooohhh, I like that reasoning! I'm sure he's behind the dart in Sayid's back and the consequent death-like trance Sayid ends up in. He knows he won't be able to convince Sayid to go back so he hires thugs to tranquilize him. Locke's probably in the same death-like trance. This might even be the same drug that was given to Juliet to get her to the island so she wouldn't find out she wasn't going to Portland as she thought.

When Sun said last year she blamed two people for Jin's death I assumed the other was Jack or Kate since there was no way she could know what Ben did in the Orchid. All that has changed now and i take her at her word when she tells Widmore that Ben is the other person she blames. Why? Apparently about three years after they left the island Locke contacted a lot of the 815 folk for some reason. It makes since he probably contacted Sun as well and he could have told her about what Ben did. That is why she waited three years before contacting Widmore -- she had just found out about what Ben.

I never figured out why Locke would tell any of hte O6 how the freighter came to be blown up since he knows that Ben is the key to getting them back on the Island. Locke gets the orders but no instructions on how to carry them out. Ben knows that stuff. So, since Sun has to come back, I wouldn't think Locke would give her a reason to go after Ben. I still say she's playing a deeper game and her ulitimate target is Widmore but that won't be obvious for some time. She's got to lull him into a false sense of securty because things with Sun are never what they appear.

I don't understand how Sun could know to blame Ben. Does Sun know the boat blew up because Ben stabbed Keamy in the throat? Of course, I would just assume the O6 and the left behinds could blame Ben for anything and still be within reason, but seriously. How could she know what happened at the Orchid. She has to be blaming her dad and Jack.

As mmpd has said, Bentham must have talked to her. See below.


I posted earlier in this thread wondering why Sun would be plotting against Ben, when there's no way she'd know Ben was responsible for the explosion when he killed Keamy; all she knew of Ben was his pleading with Jack NOT to contact the freighter.

BUT I realized that Bentham/Locke had probably gone to see her as he had the other O6ers, and that he is the one person who knows that Ben killed Keamy and that that is what blew up the ship.

So Sun does have a motive to kill Ben, even though she also has a motive to get Widmore, who after all sent the ship and Keamy and the explosives.

Thank you. That is the point everyone is missing. Sun mentions to Widmore that they [the oceanic 6] weren't the only ones to leave the island. Jack knew that Ben was off the island because Locke told him. Bentham also knew what Linus did and obviously went to see Sun. Somehow their conversation turned to what exactly caused the freighter to blow up and Locke must have told her what Ben did. That is why three years later, Sun says she has common interests with Widmore.

In the previews Sun has a gun to Ben's head. Jack and Kate are there too but she puts the gun to Ben's head and threatens him.

I'm sure she means business, blames Ben, and wants him dead because she believes he killed Jin.


I think someone could make an educated guess that Ben had something to do with it. He hasn't exactly been a bed of roses to any of the Losties.

If I were on the island and lost my shoes, I would blame Ben.

I'm totally with you on that one. If anything bad happens on the island, check to see if Ben had anything to do with it. He usually does.

I'm not sure Sun did all that. Who is the biggest manipulator we know? Ben. And he knows that he as to get the o6 + john back to the island. When Jack was freaking out in the funeral home about getting them all back, Ben said something like, "let me take care of that." I think he's behind it. He's hired the lawyers to freak Kate out. He knows she can't run, but if Aaron was threatened--she'd run.

The first person I blamed asking for the blood test was Ben. After seeing Sun's behavior, I'm sure she's up to no good. I recognize that Ben has strong reasons for doing it and he may have actually done the work setting it up. But I think Sun is using the entire situation for something. Perhaps she is trying to get Aaron for some reason.