Alright just some thoughts on tonight's episode.. The live thread is pretty hard to keep up with so I just wanted to do it here (I REALLY hope that's ok)

Anybody else can either comment or chime in their own thoughts :)

I personally think that the whispers heard in previous seasons is indeed the voices of the losties traveling through time.. I mean theoretically I guess it makes sense with the whole idea of the island having its own powers, and it wouldn't be too farfetched if the voices were indeed traveling through time.. But if this WERE true WHAT would be the cause of this? Also, if we were to go back and listen to individual whispers that have been singled out and augmented would they reveal interesting pieces of information? Until now the whispers we used to hear and decipher were nothing more than that; whispers. I'm sure some had general theories or idea regarding the whispers, but without a solid base to stand the ideas on, most of us didn't think too much about the whispers (until now which if this theory is more or less correct, could help ALOT in figuring out everything)

Another pretty interesting idea I had and I'm sure many of you have also had is the fact that I have noticed that Ben has RARELY looked nervous or without a plan (and when I say rarely I can only recall twice when it has happened). Now what I mean by this is the fact that I believe Ben has lived through all of this at one point in time and is, not necessarily stuck in a time loop, but having been on the island for so long and being appointed leader, that he HAS actually gone through everything already at one point of his life (or consciousness). Doesn't Ben seem to ALWAYS know what to say or do? As if he knows what the reaction or outcome will be? No matter how much he gets tortured or if he gets "caught" or if somebody were trying to blackmail him, he NEVER steers away from the plan. He is never nervous of the future changing, because those are the rules. As I mentioned before the only times that he ever reacted differently, were when Alex got shot and when Hurley ran out of his house to turn himself in. When he kept telling Keamy to shoot his daughter to just do it, he would say it repeatedly and in an angry tone, and as soon as Keamy did it, he IMMEDIATELY paused as if he could not believe what he had just seen, because it wasn't supposed to happen, which is what he means when he tells Widmore that he changed the rules. When Hurley runs out to get caught by the cops, he also did not expect that since he probably believes that Hurley is a gullible fool that is easy to manipulate and did not expect Hurley to act against his word.

Widmore and Ben are the pawns in a bigger game in which they act accordingly to what is supposed to happen so that time would not drift off and possibly cause the end of human life. Maybe the losties each represent the numbers in the Valenzetti equation? 4 8 15 16 23 42 (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Aaron, Sun, and Sayid)

I feel like I'm just rambling on at this point and I don't know if this is even coherent as I'm just thinking and typing. It's good to release this all into the Lost world :) Hopefully some of you will read it and comment back :) Thank you if you do :D

How would Ben know what is going to happen? How would he assume Keamy wouldn't shoot Alex, or Hurley turn himself in?

Because it wasn't "supposed" to happen.. Going along with the not being able to change the past.. If he's already experienced all of this then it would make sense for him to believe that these things wouldn't happen, if they never happened in the first place.

Which is why he was surprised when they did happen..
100%
Somebody else shed some light on my views? :( Or maybe have this moved somewhere more active? ;/

I like the idea the numbers of the VE equate to each of the O6. There has to be a reason their return to the Island is so important, to Ben, to Alpert, and to Ms. Hawking. It seems like the stakes (fate of the world?) is at stake.

Hah thank you :)

Anybody else ? :P

It seems like because the O6 left the Island and Charles Widmore's "take no prisoners" order, the rules have definitely changed. You're right about Ben's miscalculations and you may be right about him having lived all this before so he pretty much knows how it will go down. However, he's never really been around someone like Hurley for very long. You could tell that by his reactions to Hurley in "Cabin Fever" and in the S4 finale "There's No Place Like Home". Ben's stock in trade is manipulating people into doing what he wants done and he's gotten arrogant about his ability to do that. Hurley breaks all the rules Ben's familiar with in dealing with people. He gave him candy in Cabin Fever. He asked simple and seemingly naive questions in the finale last year but was able to get right to the heart of the matter immediately. He never treated Ben like he was a leader or someone evil. Ben doesn't have a chapter on how to deal with a Hurley. ;) Thank God!

I've always had the suspicion that all of the Losties have been through this before. They keep getting chances to set something straight and keep screwing up, so they're caught in a loop. So I agree that Ben seems to know what's going to happen. You're darn right that the death of Alex was a shock to him. She was never killed in the previous iterations so she shouldn't have been killed this time. Something has changed so all bet's are off. Don't you think that it was Charlie who programmed the password code in the Looking Glass? Think about it.

i agree with guinevere! i think that ben is not use to someone like hurley and, of course, he thought that widmore had made promises off the island; therefore, crazy keamey killing alex was not expected. that was ridiculous that ben would do what he did with alex.

but, as far as hurley is concerned, his is an innocent and he doesn't have to do what ben says. ben has never had him in a scary situation. the hotpocket look and the arrest look from ben was out of this world!!!!!

but, all in all, ben will get his way, for now.

it is a possibility that ben has lived through all of this before, but i'm really hoping it is not. i'm having nosebleeds trying to keep everything in order!