So, our mystery women emerges from a "science" type environment into a "faith" environment. Ahhhhhh, science and faith are coming together at last.

Oh, I'm going to love this season.

I thought it was *really* interesting that in the midst of Mrs. Hawking's "lab" (esp. in light of the fact that TPTB have alluded to the fact that we would see a synthesis of sorts to the science v. faith dialectic this season) we see a pendulum.

Did this strike anyone else as interesting?

For anyone that isn't aware, pendulums are used in some occult/mystical practices as a sort of divination, to find answers/insight into certain things.

The swinging of a pendulum is also reminiscent of the swinging of a thurible during Mass in some Christian traditions.

Not to mention Mrs. Hawking was clothed in a hooded cloak, a wardrobe choice that evokes a lot of religious imagery... so we have those things, taking place in an otherwise scientific context - while that scientific context is itself, as it turns out, in the basement of a church.

Wow! That scene was just full of very evocative imagery as far as science and faith go.

I immediately thought of Umberto Eco's book Foucault's Pendulum. She was using the earth's rotation and her own formulas to zero in on the island's location.

She seems to be a very critical person for future episodes.

I immediately thought of Umberto Eco's book Foucault's Pendulum. She was using the earth's rotation and her own formulas to zero in on the island's location.

She seems to be a very critical person for future episodes.

That is *really* interesting! I've never heard of that book before.

Wikipedia:

"The plot of Foucault's Pendulum revolves around three friends, Belbo, Diotallevi and Casaubon, who work for a small publishing company in Milan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan). After reading too many manuscripts about occult conspiracy theories, they decide they can do better, and set to invent their own conspiracy for fun. They call this satirical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satirical) intellectual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual) game "The Plan"."

Hmmm.... Sound like this could be relevent at all? :)

I've thought for awhile that the Widmore/Ben feud, at its center, it about two sides trying to steer reality in two copeting directions.

Something else I've never heard of, but just stumbled upon: The Foucault Pendulum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum) is a scientific apparatus that is used to observe the rotation of the earth, and it will swing in different directions at different rates depending on where on the earth it's beins swung at. Interesting.

Excellent, thought-provoking posts. Sorry I don't have something to add, but I'm glad I peeked in here. :)

I don't seem to have much to add but I'm interested in seeing where this post leads :)

Not so sure it's an actual melding of science and religion in terms of what Ms. Hawking is actually doing. Seems like the church/monastary is a front or cover and in the basement she's secretly doing some pretty hardcore scientific calculations with the scribbling of equations and plotting on the computer. The connection of the pendulum to the occult is interesting though; it adds some nice color to the science/faith dichotomy. But I think it probably is being used in a context of scientifically determining a space-time coordinate/window.

Sorry... scanning posts but cannot find much about the hooded women.... Do we know who she is. In another post, someone said something about Des' mom?? I am sure I read this wrong...

The significance of the pendulum is weighted in the act of knowing. Though Mrs. Hawking evokes some "occult" imagery by her wardrobe and her machinations on the board, she is hardly serving either esoteric power.

She's a scientist in the same vein as Eliphas Levi or Crowley in that she is trying to locate a specific item using natural energies.

It will be interesting to find how long Ben has been a student to her teachings. Seems that the tail has wagged the dog this time.

What is the significance with 70 hours within the Lost numbers paradigm?

she's mrs. hawkings from the 3rd season. she's the old woman desmond talked to about asking penny to marry him when he was flashing back after the hatch exploded. she told him to not ask penny to marry him because in the past he DID NOT. she said that you cannot change time and if you try then it wouldn't be good.

something along that line. i haven't seen that episode in forever!

What is the significance with 70 hours within the Lost numbers paradigm?

That we won't have to wait until the end of the season for the O6 to get back to the Island :).

This is definitely a discussion for me :) I think my avatar says it all - Foucault's Pendulum by Ecco is one of favourtie books. I also posted a theory regarding the Illuminati - http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=104673 . If you are interested in this stuff check it out and please feel free to comment. I will be updating the theory shortly based on last nights events.

Oh man I'm soo glad the show is back. I don't have much to add here but I love when a show can provoke thoughts and discussion like this.

Ok back to lurking. :coolorng:

That is *really* interesting! I've never heard of that book before.

Wikipedia:

"The plot of Foucault's Pendulum revolves around three friends, Belbo, Diotallevi and Casaubon, who work for a small publishing company in Milan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan). After reading too many manuscripts about occult conspiracy theories, they decide they can do better, and set to invent their own conspiracy for fun. They call this satirical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satirical) intellectual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual) game "The Plan"."

Hmmm.... Sound like this could be relevent at all? :)

I've thought for awhile that the Widmore/Ben feud, at its center, it about two sides trying to steer reality in two copeting directions.



Without giving away the whole plot . . . the amusing little game in Foucault's Pendulum turns disastrous . . . because these three had underestimated both the evil and the cluelessness of other people. It sounds VERY relevant to LOST.

People are saying that she is Daniel's Mom since she seems to know all about the time shifts and traveling through time in general. That's why Daniel told Desmond to find his mother in Oxford.

What I found odd is that Ms Hawking was using such an antiquated computer for her research -- like the one in the hatch. We are assuming this scene took place in present day, so why wasn't she using modern technology? Were those instruments connected to Dharma somehow? That would seem to be the only reasonable explanation... I mean who knew an Apple II could even run some sophisticated mapping program...lol

YES. Just rewatched that part of 308. Hawking has a lot of great things to say that will help with what they are currently telling us.

THANKS!!

What I found odd is that Ms Hawking was using such an antiquated computer for her research -- like the one in the hatch. We are assuming this scene took place in present day, so why wasn't she using modern technology? Were those instruments connected to Dharma somehow? That would seem to be the only reasonable explanation... I mean who knew an Apple II could even run some sophisticated mapping program...lol

I think the antiquated equipment was designed to evoke a comparision to the DI equipment in the hatches on the Island. In other words, Hawking has some sort of connection to that operation. Shoot, she could be occupying a DI related space in her current location.

Didn't Mrs. Hawkings also come to the Hydra island to rule on Juliet's fate after helping our Losties? Then Jack makes Ben pardon her. It's the same woman right, she stops and talks to Jack about his tattoos. Lemme know, I am currently lending out my Lost DVDs and cannot verify this right now.

She's a scientist in the same vein as Eliphas Levi or Crowley in that she is trying to locate a specific item using natural energies.

Well stated. The modern concept of science and religion/spirituality being two distinct disciplines is ridiculous.

What's next? You gonna' name drop the OTO?

Didn't Mrs. Hawkings also come to the Hydra island to rule on Juliet's fate after helping our Losties?
No. Different actress, different character.

I think the antiquated equipment was designed to evoke a comparision to the DI equipment in the hatches on the Island. In other words, Hawking has some sort of connection to that operation. Shoot, she could be occupying a DI related space in her current location.


Does anyone else think that Hawkings may have been in an off-ilans dharma station? There may be only one of more than one, but is it possible that this is an off sland station used to get to the island?

The pattern that pendlum was making seemed to be showing up on the computer sceen which looked like a dharma computer.

What's next? You gonna' name drop the OTO?


Nope. But, Jack Parson's comes to mind . . .

Nope. But, Jack Parson's comes to mind . . .

Awesome reply! Glad you're here.

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr58/LostJunkiepics/EW.jpg

I just cleaned this image up and have been pouring over it for a short bit. Doesn't this randomness seem particularly patterned?

Looks as if the pendulum is using magnetic resonance in order to triangulate a fixed position? Perhaps Hawkins has found a way to correlate excessive magnetic output each time The Island has moved?

Without giving away the whole plot . . . the amusing little game in Foucault's Pendulum turns disastrous . . . because these three had underestimated both the evil and the cluelessness of other people. It sounds VERY relevant to LOST.
It is, but AFAIK I'm the only one who figured out how. Lost concerns a group of characters (practically the entire cast) who we see in the preparation of a hoax which parallels and alludes to the Priory of Sion hoax. (Forget all this time travel nonsense. It's not really occurring, it's just made to look that way because the makers of Lost are presenting events to us in such an order and with such blinders on as the characters would wish them to be perceived. And forget the seeming violence and appearance of opposition -- it's fake, they're cooperating.) The book which took the Priory of Sion hoax seriously was Holy Blood, Holy Grail. The antithesis of that book is Foucault's Pendulum by Eco -- which is why the character representing the adversary in Lost was named Mr. Eko. "Checkmate, Mr. Eko." (He was not cooperating.)

So this time the makers of Lost made the reference more explicit.

Robert

Not so sure it's an actual melding of science and religion in terms of what Ms. Hawking is actually doing. Seems like the church/monastary is a front or cover and in the basement she's secretly doing some pretty hardcore scientific calculations with the scribbling of equations and plotting on the computer. The connection of the pendulum to the occult is interesting though; it adds some nice color to the science/faith dichotomy. But I think it probably is being used in a context of scientifically determining a space-time coordinate/window.

Right. I agree. I don't think that she was mixing science and occult/spiritual practices in what she was actually doing, it's merely the imagery itself that I've found interesting, and what it alludes to purely on a level of symbolism.... i.e. a synthesis of the science/faith dichotomy.
100%
That we won't have to wait until the end of the season for the O6 to get back to the Island :).



Hahaha, nice! :)

That's really funny... When she said "70 hours", my very first thought was, "Well, at least the story will be going places sooner rather than later!"
100%
What I found odd is that Ms Hawking was using such an antiquated computer for her research -- like the one in the hatch. We are assuming this scene took place in present day, so why wasn't she using modern technology? Were those instruments connected to Dharma somehow? That would seem to be the only reasonable explanation... I mean who knew an Apple II could even run some sophisticated mapping program...lol

I thought that was interesting, too.

Her technology was obviously meant to evoke images of the hatch, but beyond that, why she was using such antiquated stuff, I have no idea.
100%
By the by, I just rewatched that last scene, and there are what distinctly look to me like Dharma Initiative binders on the desk to the right of Hawking's computer. :)

I immediately thought of Foucault's Pendulum as well. I can't believe I never made the Eko/Eco connection before. The book is full of conspiracy theories, including telluric currents and the "navel of the earth"/hollow earth theory. I am a big fan of the hollow earth theory as it applies to Lost, especially as the Oceanic Airlines logo is, I think, a depiction of the hollow earth diagram. (wiki "hollow earth"). When I saw the pendulum drawing the lines, I definitely thought that this was another clue that the island is somehow in the center of the earth.

I think the antiquated equipment was designed to evoke a comparision to the DI equipment in the hatches on the Island. In other words, Hawking has some sort of connection to that operation. Shoot, she could be occupying a DI related space in her current location.

It is a DI station. There are Dharma notebooks on the desk beside the computer.

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/2b4e30cd77f2a79b6af7601b3b8217ab

It is a DI station. There are Dharma notebooks on the desk beside the computer.

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/2b4e30cd77f2a79b6af7601b3b8217ab

I came to that conclusion while watching the episode and simply seeing the same computer present. Cant imagine any other reason to use the same computer in a scene than to imply the identity of another DI station.

Thanks for the picture. I hadnt noticed the DI binders while watching the episode, but they can be clearly seen here. Looks like 3.5" floppies too. :D

Seems to be a DI station for locating the island in the event it is "misplaced."

It is a DI station. There are Dharma notebooks on the desk beside the computer.

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/2b4e30cd77f2a79b6af7601b3b8217ab

Indeed: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unknown_station

I guess this is the off-Island DI station that's been reported.
100%
I came to that conclusion while watching the episode and simply seeing the same computer present. Cant imagine any other reason to use the same computer in a scene than to imply the identity of another DI station.

Thanks for the picture. I hadnt noticed the DI binders while watching the episode, but they can be clearly seen here. Looks like 3.5" floppies too. :D

Seems to be a DI station for locating the island in the event it is "misplaced."

I agree with your premise for the station. I wonder how many times the Island has moved?

This is definitely a discussion for me :) I think my avatar says it all - Foucault's Pendulum by Ecco is one of favourtie books. I also posted a theory regarding the Illuminati - http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=104673 . If you are interested in this stuff check it out and please feel free to comment. I will be updating the theory shortly based on last nights events.

That is *really* interesting! I've never heard of that book before.

Wikipedia:

"The plot of Foucault's Pendulum revolves around three friends, Belbo, Diotallevi and Casaubon, who work for a small publishing company in Milan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan). After reading too many manuscripts about occult conspiracy theories, they decide they can do better, and set to invent their own conspiracy for fun. They call this satirical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satirical) intellectual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual) game "The Plan"."

Hmmm.... Sound like this could be relevent at all? :)

I've thought for awhile that the Widmore/Ben feud, at its center, it about two sides trying to steer reality in two copeting directions.

Something else I've never heard of, but just stumbled upon: The Foucault Pendulum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum) is a scientific apparatus that is used to observe the rotation of the earth, and it will swing in different directions at different rates depending on where on the earth it's beins swung at. Interesting.

Since the beginning of season 1 I've believed the authors are referencing Eco's works. (he's one of my favorite writers. I took the name Daphne from one of his novels)
From The Island of the Day Before (the most obvious reference being the island located at the South Pacific with supposed very peculiar qualities regarding time, the bad twin, the 17th century ship...) to the whispers (in Eco's Baudolin the characters, as they make their journey, hear whispers around them but never get to see the people) now to the very explicit last reference to The Foucault's Pendulum...

(By the way, on Foucault's...there's also a character that claims to be the Count of Saint Germain...Richard?)


Now I'm absolutely decided to reread those books, many answers are there, I'm sure!

When I saw the pendulum drawing the lines, I definitely thought that this was another clue that the island is somehow in the center of the earth.

Hello, all. I've been away.

I notice the word 'equator' on the floor where the pendulum is swinging. Also noted the one star area on the computer east of the Soloman Islands. In the area of that star is where the 180th meridian (the opposite of 0 degrees longitude or the citus of Greenwich Meridian, a n important maritime place) (180th also where the International Date Line exists) intersects with the equator. This is near the Marshall Island chain and nearer to Howland Island. (FYI This was the destination of the Electra, the plane of Amelia Earhart, before her disappearance.)

Just thinking this would be a good place for the writers to place an island with such powerful magnetic possibilities.

I also noted the pendulum vs. the crucifix dichotomy. The christian church presumably available to the public and the pendulum hidden in a tucked away subterranean vault. Perhaps one the front for the other.

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr58/LostJunkiepics/EW.jpg

I just cleaned this image up and have been pouring over it for a short bit. Doesn't this randomness seem particularly patterned?

I tried....can't see any patterns. I don't know....I've been trying to see any connection to the info in Dan's journal (events a, b, and c in red text). The triangle area created by these three events only have the "space-time" line through it.....any meaning to that? I have no idea.....

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h220/seaque/h1a2.jpg

Looks as if the pendulum is using magnetic resonance in order to triangulate a fixed position? Perhaps Hawkins has found a way to correlate excessive magnetic output each time The Island has moved?

I like this..... there's a resonance that is unique to the island. Good vibrations?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h220/seaque/h1a2.jpg
Of course this evokes a comparison with the ever-insertive Kabbalah "Tree Of Life (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Tree-of-Life_Queens-Colour.png)" diagram... One need not delve into the less impactive and important elements of the Illuminati, etc to get to where there is some synergistic relevance with the much more pervasive and mainstream Hebraic Mysteries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah). Maybe there's something here, who knows? Time, of course, will tell.

Of course this evokes a comparison with the ever-insertive Kabbalah "Tree Of Life (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Tree-of-Life_Queens-Colour.png)" diagram... One need not delve into the less impactive and important elements of the Illuminati, etc to get to where there is some synergistic relevance with the much more pervasive and mainstream Hebraic Mysteries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah). Maybe there's something here, who knows? Time, of course, will tell.

Which is, again, continuously referenced on Foucault's Pendulum (and each chapter is named after a part of the diagram).

Which is, again, continuously referenced on Foucault's Pendulum (and each chapter is named after a part of the diagram).

Heh. I just got this mental image of J.J. Abrams wearing some mysterious hooded monk's cowl and conducting some strange and obscure Kabbalah rituals in his basement!

Heh. I just got this mental image of J.J. Abrams wearing some mysterious hooded monk's cowl and conducting some strange and obscure Kabbalah rituals in his basement!

:w00t:

Oh, that image is going to stay with me for a bit!

But what did you think of Ben lighting candles and the whole metaphor of "enlightenment" that the writers may have been throwing out to us?

And does ANYBODY have screen caps of what it is that our Silver Fox brought up with her from the basement and then laid on the altar?????

YouTube - Lost - Season 5 - Episode 2 - The Lie - Part 4

It looks like she comes up with a flashlight and then picks up some kind of table cloth and spreads it out.

YouTube - Lost - Season 5 - Episode 2 - The Lie - Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40t252ZpzSs)

It looks like she comes up with a flashlight and then picks up some kind of table cloth and spreads it out.

Yeah, that's what I saw, too. It seems like Ms. Hawking had come to a definite conclusion about something down in the basement before she started heading upstairs with the flashlight and cloth. Also, it seems like she knew that Ben was going to be there, even though it also seems like he had just recently arrived.

Well, she doesn't bring the cloth up from the basement--she has the flashlight in one hand and is holding the stair rail with the other hand. So whatever it the cloth represents, she takes it from teh church.

Why is she spreading a cloth on the altar??? Granted, it's a device to keep her back to the camera so that viewers have to wait for the reveal, but IS there anything more significant to the action of covering the altar, and with a white cloth (at least I think it's white) since the color of the altar cloths is not random in a church.

This is an interesting thread I have a few things to add:

I just watched the enhanced version of this episode and they mention that Mrs. Hawking's computers look like Dharma station era technology. They also say that her first name is Eloise giving more credence to the idea that she could be Faraday's mother (his rat was named Eloise).

I am currently trying to read Stephen Hawkings "Universe in a Nutshell" and he uses a pendulum as an example of the uncertainty principal in quantum physics (you can't accurately measure a particle's location and velocity at the same time) he points out that a free hanging pendulum is never completly motionless it always has slight movement otherwise its location and speed would both be zero . The uncertaintly principle is also demonstrated by the Casimir effect that Candle mentioned at the start of the episode, (it has to do with a slight imbalance of energy between to metal plates which causes them to be drawn towards each other) Anyway I probably shouldn't bring up stuff I don't understand completely but this season is really making my mind work overtime,