Why do they have to go back to the island... and never leave again? It doesn't make sense, what exactly is so special about them, what are they fixing? What about walt, widmore and anyone else who has been to the island?

I was wondering that too. How would them going back accomplish anything. It seems like Ben would be the only one who would know how to fix anything anyways... so maybe it's just that Ben can only go back if they go back?

The only thing I could come up with is that them returning magically causes the time skips to stop happening, thereby preventing the death (due to absolute chaos) of the remaining survivors.

It's been suggested that each of the O6 is representative of a number within the actual NUMBERS. Perhaps on a genetic level they are key to changing the values of the Valenzetti Equation?

Yes, I'd like to know the same thing.

"Because the island wants you to" or any other vague, destinyesque reason is simply not going to cut it for me. I really want an actual reason.

My own thoughts on this

http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=105589

My own thoughts on this

http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=105589

I buy it
good stuff

luckily I had just re-watched the season 2 finale where Desmond turns the key.
It is pretty odd though (as Desmond was about to bring up to Inman in his flashback) that they had someone entering a code and pushing a button every 108 minutes. Why not just make it an automated system? That way there couldn't be the chance for human error, or opinion, governing something so important.

or the O6 are the island's constant's and just like Desmond, needs to see them to stop jumping through time.

I think it has to do with constants. Like, when you remove some elements from the equation (the equation being the island), it becomes erratic and chaotic. Returning those factors to the equation will make it become stable again.

I like this theory, and it does create a genuine explanation for the 06 needing to return. Vozzek on DarkUFO posted a similar theory.

Thanks!

I was wondering about this last night and I think the idea that the O6 are the constants is the most logical explanation we have with the information we've received so far. The fact that it was Richard who said they all have to come back lends more credence to this than if it was just Ben or even Widmore.

my take, as I was watching the show and try to figure things out :

it seems logical to me that they have to all come back.

Time was clucked up from the moment ben turned that wheel. To restore order, we must go back basically to that time (or an equivalent situation) before he turned the wheel. and for that to happen without flaws, everyone that was on the island (and within the radius) at that moment has to be there. (It's like a big formula/equation : if you want to restore it, you have to restore all parameters that were initially in it, otherwize it's a different formula)

***

I don't think this has anything to do with constants. It doesn't make sense. It's been proven in the past that the constant does not need to be on the island to fucntion (penny was desmond's constant). and I see no reason why the 6+ben+desmond+locke would magically be something/someone's constant as a group.

***

am I making any sense ?

ok but what about ben and hawking, why do they care about getting everyone back there and if the island is stable or not? How does it effect them...is something that happens to the island going to effect the whole world? Also, when they come back won't they be in a different time then the displaced losties?

ok but what about ben and hawking, why do they care about getting everyone back there and if the island is stable or not? How does it effect them...is something that happens to the island going to effect the whole world? Also, when they come back won't they be in a different time then the displaced losties?

I think it's been perfectly clear that ben wants the island to be in good shape.
so coming back would resolve its current issues.
hawkings must be alined with his thinking, and seems to be some "time guru" so such a problem as the one on the island now is unacceptable for her.

I also like the theory of the 70 hours : this is when the island will be in the present time, and that will probably not happen for a while after that. which is why it must happen fast.

I was wondering about this last night and I think the idea that the O6 are the constants is the most logical explanation we have with the information we've received so far. The fact that it was Richard who said they all have to come back lends more credence to this than if it was just Ben or even Widmore.

I'm so glad others were thinking along these lines. I literally woke in the middle of the night with this (potential) revelation. Think of Hurley's comment while they were playing risk, "Australia is the key to the whole game" (or something like that). All of the Oceanic 815 either interacted pre-flight, in the airport, or on the plane prior to crashing. Accord, they are each other's constants. They met in Australia, and it is the "key." Additionally, they interacted via other people (Cassidy, Christian, Mr. Paik, Mr. Widmore, Locke's work at the box company that Hurley owned, Richard, etc.). These connections/inter-connections might work as the constant as well. I haven't totally developed this whole theory yet, but it seems to fit. Looking forward to reading through your development of this theory.

I'm so glad others were thinking along these lines. I literally woke in the middle of the night with this (potential) revelation. Think of Hurley's comment while they were playing risk, "Australia is the key to the whole game" (or something like that). All of the Oceanic 815 either interacted pre-flight, in the airport, or on the plane prior to crashing. Accord, they are each other's constants. They met in Australia, and it is the "key." Additionally, they interacted via other people (Cassidy, Christian, Mr. Paik, Mr. Widmore, Locke's work at the box company that Hurley owned, Richard, etc.). These connections/inter-connections might work as the constant as well. I haven't totally developed this whole theory yet, but it seems to fit. Looking forward to reading through your development of this theory.

see, now the idea of the constant is getting hotter in my head. I wasn't too sold on it, but this idea about the interaction pre/post island between the castaways does give it a lot of potency...

but : why do they ALL have to come back is still unclear. I guess that means that, on the island, each of them is needed as someone else's constant. anyone want to examine that and whether they are all mutually exclusive or not ?

The idea of restoring the island to what it was like at the time that Ben pulled the lever does not pan out. The people who are missing were not even on the island when the lever was pulled. So it doesn't make sense to say they need to go back to put it back to that state.

Most other theories are also kind of shot because of Walt and anybody else who has been on the island and is still alive - yet are not required to go back.

The theory would have to apply specifically to these 6 people, and that is pretty specific

The idea of restoring the island to what it was like at the time that Ben pulled the lever does not pan out. The people who are missing were not even on the island when the lever was pulled. So it doesn't make sense to say they need to go back to put it back to that state.

Most other theories are also kind of shot because of Walt and anybody else who has been on the island and is still alive - yet are not required to go back.

The theory would have to apply specifically to these 6 people, and that is pretty specific

I don't agree. but you're not totally wrong in your criticism.

the way it's been told to us, it's not JUST the oceanic 6 that have to go back : it's them + locke + ben. I may add that desmond too will have to go back (even though it has not been adressed yet and I think it will -- the thing is ben may not know he's back + he's "special") and I guess the pilot from last season too would have to come back.

walt had already left weeks ago and is not included in that group.

there was talk about a radius that was affected by the event : not only the people ON the island are affected. and faraday makes a point of that.
however, it seems that the oceanic 6 were not in the radius. They were very close though.

now WHY they need to come back is a mystery... we'll see.

That said, I'm liking the idea of the constant more and more. it would give the interconnections so much sense.

This seems to be the big stumbling block of the show right now. Not only here, but on all the other forums i've seen.

Why the O-6? They just got off (in show time, 3 years in timeline) now have to go back. Ben let them, helped them to leave...he knew he'd leave when he turned the wheel. It just doesn't add up.
Desmond does seem to be included, he already told Penny he has to go back.. Locke and Ben as well. Somehow Locke is told (by Jacob?) that he needs to go out and find the O-6 and bring them back, so how'd he get off the island?

Can't Ben, or someone he can tell, just turn the wheel back and close the opening the 'exotic matter' is escaping from? Doesn't it seem that the matter builds up and discharges every 108 min's?

Even if the O-6 do go back, isn't that what needs to happen asap?

Why do they have to go back to the island... and never leave again? It doesn't make sense, what exactly is so special about them, what are they fixing? What about walt, widmore and anyone else who has been to the island?

The answer to this question could actually be very simple. They have to go back, because in the future they collectively do something on (or to) the island that is very important. If they arent on the island, then something very critical won't happen. And that's not possible, because you can't change the time line. If you try to do that, the universe will auto correct.

Half the crazy things in the show are probably just natural course corrections playing themselves out. A lot of things make sense if looked at in terms of the course correction phenomenon that we now know is a basic premise of the show. It's the fact that the island is so special and hard to reach that makes a lot of the course corrections appear so oddly supernatural.

The real question is: What are the oceanic 6 going to do that's so darned important?

They probably disable the island's power source at the end of the series, preventing a global cataclysm. If they don't do this, major catastrophe.

The real question is: What are the oceanic 6 going to do that's so darned important?

They probably disable the island's power source at the end of the series, preventing a global cataclysm. If they don't do this, major catastrophe.

Yeah, i agree, but why them? Couldn't Ben just get a message back to Locke to turn back the wheel? If he had given more instructions to Locke, he'd already know to do that, or Richard or Jacob would seem to know what to do.

Locke was told to move the island, not Ben, in the first place.

We do know that the Losties are special for many reasons, one of them being that they don't get the 'sickness', like Char is now getting. But i still don't see why they in particular should have to go back to save Mankind.

oooh I like these theories ... I have nothing brilliant to add but I am enjoying everyone else's hypothesizing :D :D :D

Yeah, i agree, but why them? Couldn't Ben just get a message back to Locke to turn back the wheel? If he had given more instructions to Locke, he'd already know to do that, or Richard or Jacob would seem to know what to do.

Locke was told to move the island, not Ben, in the first place.

We do know that the Losties are special for many reasons, one of them being that they don't get the 'sickness', like Char is now getting. But i still don't see why they in particular should have to go back to save Mankind.

I don't know if there needs to be anything more special about the 06 other than this one thing: They do something on the island that has global consequences. Maybe it's because they are 'special' like Walt and Locke. Or maybe it's enough that they 'did it' in the future, so the universe will always 'autocorrect' so that they can do it themselves no matter what happens.

Many of the things that look really coincidental so far on the show make sense if you think about what we're seeing each episode as just one long flashback.

...
We do know that the Losties are special for many reasons, one of them being that they don't get the 'sickness', like Char is now getting. But i still don't see why they in particular should have to go back to save Mankind.

Maybe that will part of the reveals of this season and next season. We're still operating with 50-60 % of the puzzle right now.

I'm so confused, here.

As I see it, the O6 have to return because Locke/Charlie/Ben said they had to return to save everyone else on the island. Save them from what - the island's erratic time-skipping? Quite possibly. But how are the O6 going to change that?

Also, in the Lost: Destiny Calls recap episode (I think?) it was mentioned that part of the reason the O6 are going back to the island is that they are truly miserable back in the "real world". That's a selfish reason, of course, and it doesn't seem worth the trouble of finding a way back (since we all know it's going to be incredibly difficult), but that may be a part of it.



I don't think this has anything to do with constants. It doesn't make sense. It's been proven in the past that the constant does not need to be on the island to fucntion (penny was desmond's constant). and I see no reason why the 6+ben+desmond+locke would magically be something/someone's constant as a group.

***

am I making any sense ?

That makes sense to me. I don't buy into the "constant" thing either. For one, Faraday said that a constant has to be something that you "really, really care about" and I don't see who cares about any of those characters (with the exception of Kate to Sawyer, maybe) enough for them to be their constant (I know that sounds harsh, but it's true).

Furthermore, as has been discussed elsewhere, are constants even necessary at this point? As far as I can tell, a constant only applies to when a person's consciousness is time-traveling (like Des in The Constant) and everyone on the island is physically time-traveling, a completely different thing.

This whole thing goes way over my head!

I'm so confused, here.

That makes sense to me. I don't buy into the "constant" thing either. For one, Faraday said that a constant has to be something that you "really, really care about" and I don't see who cares about any of those characters (with the exception of Kate to Sawyer, maybe) enough for them to be their constant (I know that sounds harsh, but it's true).

Furthermore, as has been discussed elsewhere, are constants even necessary at this point? As far as I can tell, a constant only applies to when a person's consciousness is time-traveling (like Des in The Constant) and everyone on the island is physically time-traveling, a completely different thing.

This whole thing goes way over my head!

yes, indeed.
the constant theory only applies when the person was exposed to radiation or something. Which is why, for example, sayid wasn't affected by it. BUT, we don't know the full story (the "rules") yet so it could be some similar situation. The reason I kinda keep that theory possible is that I love how the interconnections in the past could play out in this.

***

NOW : I've been thinking a lot about the survivors. It seems that each year, we learn that one of them was "recruted" and his presence is not a coincidence :
- Locke was "special" and recruited by Alpert (and taken care for by Abbadon)
- Desmond was guided by Libby
- Hurley and Libby too (in the mental asylum)
- Claire and the psychic

etc...

could it be possible that these people have something in common that we have yet to find out ? Are they all special ?

the only hole I find here is : I find it extremely hard, no matter how much power you have , to make sure that they somehow all end up in that plane (same day, same flight etc...) Unless their memory was altered and that's not at all how they came to the island.

This seems to be the big stumbling block of the show right now. Not only here, but on all the other forums i've seen.

Why the O-6? They just got off (in show time, 3 years in timeline) now have to go back. Ben let them, helped them to leave...he knew he'd leave when he turned the wheel. It just doesn't add up.
Desmond does seem to be included, he already told Penny he has to go back.. Locke and Ben as well. Somehow Locke is told (by Jacob?) that he needs to go out and find the O-6 and bring them back, so how'd he get off the island?

Can't Ben, or someone he can tell, just turn the wheel back and close the opening the 'exotic matter' is escaping from? Doesn't it seem that the matter builds up and discharges every 108 min's?

Even if the O-6 do go back, isn't that what needs to happen asap?


I believe Walt will be included too. I also think that Ben let them escape because he knew that Jacob wanted HIM off the island and that he was gonna need them later on to find his own way back to the Island.
Also what if Ben and Locke are, how to say it, trying to 'con' the Island itself? Or Jacob? By making it/him believe that Locke is dead?

I believe Walt will be included too. I also think that Ben let them escape because he knew that Jacob wanted HIM off the island and that he was gonna need them later on to find his own way back to the Island.
Also what if Ben and Locke are, how to say it, trying to 'con' the Island itself? Or Jacob? By making it/him believe that Locke is dead?

Ben's relationship with Jacob, at least the last time it was addressed was fractured. Ben accused Jacob of getting what he wanted by "forcing" him (Ben) to turn the FDW, which for reasons undisclosed results in exile and resulted in Locke ascending to the head of the table. It's possible Ben is trying to do a work around on Jacob which would facilitate his return. The return of Locke (or at least his body) is interesting, since he's Ben's chief rival (at least on the surface). My guess is Locke's body is an offering to Jacob, perhaps as a vessel to ensure his return. That could have been the end game all along.

Is it possible that the events on the island are leading to an expansion of its parameters? If the island continues to use its immense energies then they may be pulling at the rest of the earth which would lead to continents vanishing and skipping in time. Why else would Hawking be so worried?

Is it possible that the events on the island are leading to an expansion of its parameters? If the island continues to use its immense energies then they may be pulling at the rest of the earth which would lead to continents vanishing and skipping in time. Why else would Hawking be so worried?
obviously it has to do with the end of the world predicted by the VE. How or why it will end, we can only theorize right now....

Why do they have to go back to the island... and never leave again? It doesn't make sense, what exactly is so special about them, what are they fixing? What about walt, widmore and anyone else who has been to the island?

I think you bring up a really good point. I mentioned the same thing to a few friends and we couldn't come up with any valid reasons why. Also, looking back at S4 with Michael off-island...why couldn't he die when he left? Yet Locke did?

I think it has to do with constants. Like, when you remove some elements from the equation (the equation being the island), it becomes erratic and chaotic. Returning those factors to the equation will make it become stable again.

This was my thought.
It's like taking out a piece of the puzzle.
except in this case, the puzzle is going to keep jumping around until you put the piece back.
maybe after they're back, they CAN leave, since the Island will stop moving, but until then...

Also i am feeling this

Ben is manipulating for them all to go back but to the exact moment of ep 1x01 but in this full circle Jack does die (instead of Lockes longer journey) like he was "meant to"

I think it's that the Islands need them, the Islands and the Others need them to complete the timeline or else the Islands will never again become stable, as now we see that they are jumping around time. And if the Islands don't become stable then certain people, certain people who have their lives directly tied to the Islands, will die or their existance will cease to be.... Ms Hawking being one of them. I believed all along that her advice to Desmond was to save her and whichever group she is apart of, and now we see that Ben is working for her.

I don't think it's for the O-6's benefit to return to the Islands, and I think it's only for the benefit of the other Losties, including Juliet and Daniel, etc. if the O-6 returning can then help them to leave. Ben telling Jack that they could never come back, I think is b***s***. Ben and the Others never wanted the Losties to leave. Once you're there, you can never be allowed to leave without creating some sort of a problem for the Islands and those who live there. I don't think it's necessary for the Losties to stay there, it's necessary for the Islands to keep them there.

guys.. in 1962, the year of the cuban missle crisis, when the US and Russia were on the cusp of nuclear war, the world was suppose to end. It didn't because of the Island. Ever since then our world history has been course correcting itself towards armaggedon, but the Island has been preventing it by existing. The Island is the bump causing the normal flow of time to skip over the post-nuclear apocalyptic necessary world.


We have 70 hours before our world history intersects with this post-apocalyptic reality.

The Losties did something on the Island to help end the crisis on Oct. 18 1962, but dislodged the Island from regular time.

Ben needs to get everyone back to the Island, so world history can course correct to a graceful conclusion--or else our world will end. ie the cuban missle crisis does lead to nuclear armaggedon, and humanity is dead, and we all dissappear (symptoms: nose bleeeds, and headaches, and forgetfulness).

I think people are getting to the point now,
the Losties needs to get back because in the future they go back into the past to do something that needs to be done.

i don't think the O-6 are special in any way
past the fact that they are the ones who needs to get back,
i think everyone who was on the island at the time of the event in question needs to be back at the island for it to be corrected.

And I think the event is the Hatch blowing up.

After all not punching in those numbers should have ended the world,
and suddenly Desmond remembers some failsafe we have never even heard of before then,
and a key hidden in a stack of books that Locke ALREADY went through without finding anything...

I think that failsafe is what needs to be placed to save the world,
so that Desmond can turn it and stop the world from ending.

But the failsafe does not exist yet, because they have to make it in the future, then go back into the past and place it.

And the only person who can be privy to something changing in the timeline?

Desmond ofcourse.


-Exodus

This is from a thread I started. "Theory on WHY the island is time skipping"

Right now the island is "freaking out" because the O6 left the island. They were not supposed to leave because one or more of them are going to do one or more things of important value on the island. For arguement's sake, let's say that Jack kills Jacob in the year 2010. Imagine that we are watching the show in the year 2011, from this perspective, Jack has already killed Jacob a year ago because he never left the island.

Desmond is the wild card in all of this. Turning the failsafe key and finding his constant has made him special in someway. The rules don't apply to him, he is a threat to time and space. The biggest reason the O6 were even able to leave the island is because Desmond single handedly postponed Charlie's death. Charlie went on to stopping transmissions from being blocked so that the freighter four could find a way onto the island and the helicopter could eventually take people off the island. None of this had happened from the future's perspective, Desmond messed everything up. Charlie was supposed to be hit by lightening or drowned to death and the O6 were supposed to stay on the island.

So now Jack's not on the island, so he can't kill Jacob. That is why the island is freaking out, they need to return in order for them to do whatever it is they need to do. Once they return, the island will calm down and what is supposed to happen will happen.

By the way, don't read into Jack killing Jacob plot, it was based on nothing and was just an example of a "big deal" cause and effect.

I think that, according to Daniel's theory, what happened in the past, can't be changed. what happened, happened. And if you can time travel back in time, it will happen again and again, no matter what. So think about this...as an example...

Adam and Eve are really a couple that are, currently OFF the island. So 'the island's history' tells us that either they were never supposed to leave or that they are supposed to come back. Otherwise they would never end up being Adam and Eve on the Island through some time travel adventures. That can't be possible, because it already happened. In other words, it has to happen again the same way it did.

Perhaps each one of the O6 has to fulfill their destiny in the same way like Adam and Eve's example.
They are stuck in a time loop (skipping record). They have always done the same in the past and they are bound to do it over and over. They have always being part of the Island's history itself. It's some kind of ontological paradox (and I don't care what TPTB say!!!;))

I don't know if I am making any sense. I am still trying to figure it all out.


Also, there is something very curious about Lost's time travel depiction. Usually in every time travel story, the whole point of time traveling is to CHANGE something in the past so the future is different. But according to Daniel and Hawking's theories, the past can not be changed. However, we know that these rules don't apply to Desmond for whatever reason. What I mean? I mean that Desmond may actually be capable of changing the past to some degree. Now I wonder HOW that is gonna play out in the future?

The people who are missing were not even on the island when the lever was pulled. So it doesn't make sense to say they need to
go back to put it back to that state.

good point! i had not thought of that
100%
after reading this thread i agree with those who think something important will be done in the future so the island needs the 06 back. But the big theme is time has auto-correction so it shouldn't be so hard for them all to get back. Jack has wanted to go back for years and traveled around on planes hoping for it to crash on the island again so you would think at least some of them would have made it back... but its a tv show so i guess they need some sort of story arc.;)

Why do they have to go back to the island... and never leave again? It doesn't make sense, what exactly is so special about them, what are they fixing?Yes, I'd like to know the same thing. "Because the island wants you to" or any other vague, destinyesque reason is simply not going to cut it for me. I really want an actual reason. That's S6 episode 16 material, imho of course.

Why not just make it an automated system? That way there couldn't be the chance for human error, or opinion, governing something so important. There are a many threads that talked about this in 2006, but of course, they are old by now. The main reasons suggested are: If for whatever reason there was a power shortage, a rodent chewed a wire etc etc etc, it would bring the end of the world as we know it. Also, would a computer understand the need to turn the failsafe key like Desmond did? Even though it looks simpler to automate it, it is more convenient to have humans take shifts to push them.

The idea of restoring the island to what it was like at the time that Ben pulled the lever does not pan out(2). The people who are missing were not even on the island when the lever was pulled. So it doesn't make sense to say they need to go back(1) to put it back to that state(2). Most other theories are also kind of shot because of Walt and anybody else who has been on the island and is still alive - yet are not required to go back.(3) The theory would have to apply specifically to these 6 people, and that is pretty specific.(4)

1) But it should make perfect sense! The season 5 premiere was entitled "Because you left". In it, we learn that after the 06 have left and the wheel was turned, it sent the Island in a space time continuum whirlwind. See, if I get it right, the only reason the wheel was turned was because the 06 left, becoming a threat to the Island's near possible location in the process. Had the 06 stayed, everyone on the freighter would have been dead, keeping the Island's location a secret and sending Widmore to the drawing boards on how to find the Island again.

2) How do you know they are going back to the time just before Ben pulled the lever, and that their task is restoring the island to what it was like at the time that Ben pulled the lever Is that a spoiler?

3) How do you also know Walt, or anyone else aren't required to go back? Is there a link to that information please?

4) I'll even add that Des/Pen/Charlie will probably go back. Don't be surprised to see Lapidus again on the Island. He was supposed to pilot F815.

The real why though won't be explained in S5. It's gonna be like Smokie...those things are too big to dwell on. They will be the greatest wtf moments of the series, and should be in the last three episodes. I mean, if we knew what Smokie was or the real reason behind the 06's need to return, we wouldn't need another 28 hours of Lost now would we?

Eric.

PS."I have no clue as to why they need to go back unless it's to reconstitute the DI, as Dr Chang said was imperative."