When was it?

It seemed it was in that pre-crash no beach camp timeframe, to me.

But the thing is, how could Frogurt be dead? How could he have boarded 815 when he got whacked before it even leaves Australia and crashes on the island?

When was it?

It seemed it was in that pre-crash no beach camp timeframe, to me.

But the thing is, how could Frogurt be dead? How could he have boarded 815 when he got whacked before it even leaves Australia and crashes on the island?

Because to Frogurt, he had already boarded and crashed on 815. Think of normal time as a straight straw, and the island and Frogurt's time like a crazy straw, constantly looping and bending

grabbing this quote from "The Rules" thread....

If it hasn't happened... it can't happen.

Frogurt didn't die on the Island in "Flaming Arrow Time" because he's alive in 2004. Until he jumps back in time and dies in "Flaming Arrow Time". It didn't happen... and then it did. Locke wasn't shot in the Late 1990's by Ethan because he wasn't on the Island in the Late 1990's, until he traveled back in time and got shot by Ethan. It didn't happen... and then it did.

rulostrmi explained it quite nicely!

sooo sawyer could meet desmond in the past it would have worked?

Because to Frogurt, he had already boarded and crashed on 815. Think of normal time as a straight straw, and the island and Frogurt's time like a crazy straw, constantly looping and bending

So Frogurt was in 2 places at the same time, at once at home whining at someone, and on the island get Flamed?

So Frogurt was in 2 places at the same time, at once at home whining at someone, and on the island get Flamed?

Exactly, depending on when the flaming arrow attack happened.

Likewise, Ethan shot Locke before Ethan met him after the crash, even though they happened in the opposite order for Locke.

As to why the attack happened, This was my immediate take on that whole scene:
Moments before, Miles says he's going to look for food. He comes right back with a fresh boar that just "happened" to die. Then Frogurt mocks Rose's husband for not being able to make fire. He is immediately hit with a flaming arrow. It's some kind of "ask and ye will receive" thing, only Frogurt got his in spades.

actually i think in flaming arrow time, a flaming arrow did kill 2004 frogurt and always has. but the frogurt that existed in flaming arrow time was wherever he was during that time (on the mainland, in the womb, whatever). he went through his life, crashed on 815 and went back to flaming arrow time and got killed. ethan met locke before, and perhaps he told ben about this encounter and that's why ben was saying they've been waiting for locke. or ethan could have not told anyone, since people don't like to share on the show. but what happened happened and will happen if it hasn't happened to the person it happens to yet.

grabbing this quote from "The Rules" thread....

Frogurt didn't die on the Island in "Flaming Arrow Time" because he's alive in 2004. Until he jumps back in time and dies in "Flaming Arrow Time". It didn't happen... and then it did. Locke wasn't shot in the Late 1990's by Ethan because he wasn't on the Island in the Late 1990's, until he traveled back in time and got shot by Ethan. It didn't happen... and then it did.

rulostrmi explained it quite nicely!

When was it?

It seemed it was in that pre-crash no beach camp timeframe, to me.

But the thing is, how could Frogurt be dead? How could he have boarded 815 when he got whacked before it even leaves Australia and crashes on the island?

Frogurt was really just a spectator to his past. (as is everyone else on the island.)

He died in his group that are unstuck in time.

For example, if they were to go back to the year 2000, Frogurt is going to appear four years younger. He will still be the age he originally was, but simply "experiencing" the times again, rather than re-living them.

When was it?

It seemed it was in that pre-crash no beach camp timeframe, to me.

But the thing is, how could Frogurt be dead? How could he have boarded 815 when he got whacked before it even leaves Australia and crashes on the island?

He had to crash on the Island FIRST before he could go BACK in time. LOL! Isn't time travel fun? He. He. ;)

Is everyone really having that difficult of a time with time travel? I'm going to have to give up the board, I don't want to explain this in every thread.

Ok, all the talk of when this happened aside, I thought they were trying to hard to have another Arzt moment.

For example, if they were to go back to the year 2000, Frogurt is going to appear four years younger. He will still be the age he originally was, but simply "experiencing" the times again, rather than re-living them.

That's not the case. Other wise, Daniel would be a kid when we saw him with Dr Chang.

If someone time travels when they are 35, they will be 35 no matter what year they arrive in.

Exactly, depending on when the flaming arrow attack happened.

Likewise, Ethan shot Locke before Ethan met him after the crash, even though they happened in the opposite order for Locke.

They must've happened in opposite order for Ethan, too, or Ethan would've recognized Locke in ... wait ... what? I just confused myself.

:drowsy:

They must've happened in opposite order for Ethan, too, or Ethan would've recognized Locke in ... wait ... what? I just confused myself.

:drowsy:

Whose to say Ethan didn't recognize John Locke?

It reminds me of the episode in season 3, when Mikhail says something along the lines of "But the John Locke I remember..." He didn't say that about Kate or Sayid, who were off the island.

The real question, to me, is what will happen to Frogurt's body? Will it continue to time shift or will it lay there in the past, red shirt and all?

The real question, to me, is what will happen to Frogurt's body? Will it continue to time shift or will it lay there in the past, red shirt and all?

I can't get that image out of my head -- poor Frogurt burning to death. Not to mention the arrow through what may have been his heart. Ugh.

By the way, RodimusBen, love your new avy... :biggrin:

I didn't realize there was so much rampant ignorance on the subject of time travel around here.
100%
Is everyone really having that difficult of a time with time travel? I'm going to have to give up the board, I don't want to explain this in every thread.

Amen Brotha
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One more thing. The Flaming Arrow Attack happened in 1952, so at least that is put to rest. Now you all can grapple with the time travel part.

Whose to say Ethan didn't recognize John Locke?

It reminds me of the episode in season 3, when Mikhail says something along the lines of "But the John Locke I remember..." He didn't say that about Kate or Sayid, who were off the island.

Great idea! I've always wondered why Mikhail said that. I wouldn't be surprised if Mikhail bumps into the time skipping Locke.

I didn't realize there was so much rampant ignorance on the subject of time travel around here.


No need to get mean, some people just have a hard time understanding the concept. No one can be an expert on everything.

Is everyone really having that difficult of a time with time travel? I'm going to have to give up the board, I don't want to explain this in every thread.

What textbook did you get the actual time travel facts from? Time Travel for Dummies?

I'm just glad he got wacked. He was so annoying and not very easy to look at. He was in one of the "Missing Pieces" episodes. He told Hugo he was going to take a shot at Libby. LOL

Is everyone really having that difficult of a time with time travel? I'm going to have to give up the board, I don't want to explain this in every thread.
I'm not having any difficulty understanding the time travel either. I think sometimes overcomplicate aspects of the show.

sooo sawyer could meet desmond in the past it would have worked?

That is the one part of the time travel bit, I don't get. Was Daniel telling Sawyer the truth? Or was he correct?

How do we know it's 1952?

That is the one part of the time travel bit, I don't get. Was Daniel telling Sawyer the truth? Or was he correct?

If Desmond had, in his past in the hatch, opened the door to Sawyer, then it would have happened. But because Desmond and Sawyer hadn't met before the losties found the hatch, it obviously couldn't ( and hadn't) happen.
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How do we know it's 1952?

You took a hidden spoiler and wrote it again for everyone to see? Not very nice.

3 notes:

1. If it starts out behind spoilerfont, and still hasn't aired, it should stay behind spoilerfont.
2. Please report unfonted spoilers for the mods to take care of rather than snarking back yourself--that doesn't keep anyone from getting spoiled.
3. Lay off the rudeness regarding who does and doesn't understand time travel your way, please.

That's not the case. Other wise, Daniel would be a kid when we saw him with Dr Chang.

If someone time travels when they are 35, they will be 35 no matter what year they arrive in.

LOL. Sorry, I was meant to say "He will NOT be four years younger." Sorry, I type too fast for my own good.

Only one word can describe the Frogurt Flaming Arrow Attack....SCRUMTRULESCENT...did it raise time travel questions, paradoxes and mysteries....sure, but stay focused people he got an end befitting of the B**** he was

He was almost as annoying as Jar Jar Binks.

He was almost as annoying as Jar Jar Binks.

LMAO Indeed and given the writers feelings about Star Wars what a good way to view his character Nice

That is the one part of the time travel bit, I don't get. Was Daniel telling Sawyer the truth? Or was he correct?


In a sense daniel was telling sawyer the truth as desmond back in his hatch days would have no way of knowing sawyer at all as they didn't meet until about 2-3 years later- but desmond had met daniel previously at oxford university when daniel showed des the rat time-travel/memory experiment & told him about finding a constant to counteract the damaging time-jump effects. I suppose daniel had to chance on meeting desmond then in a bid to save himself & the other time displaced people as he's already stated desmond as his constant.

Sawyer meeting desmond then could have potentially wrecked them actually meeting & desmond even escaping the island years later, for instance desmond might have shot sawyer dead...

In a sense daniel was telling sawyer the truth as desmond back in his hatch days would have no way of knowing sawyer at all as they didn't meet until about 2-3 years later- but desmond had met daniel previously at oxford university when daniel showed des the rat time-travel/memory experiment & told him about finding a constant to counteract the damaging time-jump effects. I suppose daniel had to chance on meeting desmond then in a bid to save himself & the other time displaced people as he's already stated desmond as his constant.

Sawyer meeting desmond then could have potentially wrecked them actually meeting & desmond even escaping the island years later, for instance desmond might have shot sawyer dead...
Daniel meeting Desmond did change something though, it gave Desmond a new memory that hadn't happened prior to the time shift. I think the more interesting thing is that Daniel did try and succeeded to a degree to change the future. Just because you can't change the future, given all the tragedy that has unfolded on the island doesn't mean they won't try.

Daniel meeting Desmond did change something though, it gave Desmond a new memory that hadn't happened prior to the time shift.

But that had always happened, in Desmonds past. He did meet Faraday on the island then. But for some reason he only remembered it now.

Daniel meeting Desmond did change something though, it gave Desmond a new memory that hadn't happened prior to the time shift. I think the more interesting thing is that Daniel did try and succeeded to a degree to change the future. Just because you can't change the future, given all the tragedy that has unfolded on the island doesn't mean they won't try.

But that had always happened, in Desmonds past. He did meet Faraday on the island then. But for some reason he only remembered it now.

I have to agree with woland on this one, Dan telling Desmond about his mother at Oxford created the new memory. That's why the scene was presented that way for us, Dan tells Desmond about Oxford, then we see Desmond waking in the future remembering that conversation. This is why Desmond is special, he can be used to transfer information between time periods..

I would be very interested in seeing Frogurt's obituary: Born 1974, died 1647.

He was almost as annoying as Jar Jar Binks.
The difference between Froburt and Jar Jar Binks is that Frodirt was deliberately created to be annoying with the intention of making we fans welcome the flaming arrow that impaled him, whileas Jar Jar Binks was actually the result of a committee that tried to create a character that they hoped would be charming and loveable by Star Wars fans. Therefore, Jar Jar is so much more despicable, since he was created to be "cute", while Fropurt was just a bit of fluff meant to titillate the viewers.

The difference between Froburt and Jar Jar Binks is that Frodirt was deliberately created to be annoying with the intention of making we fans welcome the flaming arrow that impaled him, whileas Jar Jar Binks was actually the result of a committee that tried to create a character that they hoped would be charming and loveable by Star Wars fans. Therefore, Jar Jar is so much more despicable, since he was created to be "cute", while Fropurt was just a bit of fluff meant to titillate the viewers.

I'm sure Frogurt thought he was being cute....until he took the flaming arrow to the chest. HA I think the writers should make Frogurt like Kenny from South Park and he can die in every episode. Every time they time jump Frogurt can come back only to once again meet his demise in some new and horrifyingly painful way. Frogurt just can't die enough for my liking. Excellent work by the writers.