After the Losties ran from the beach during the arrow attack, Sawyer stepped on a dart in the jungle. Remember when he stepped on one when he and Kate were fleeing from the Hydra (I think during Not in Portland)? Why did they include that in this episode?

It also seemed a bit deja vu when Locke got shot at the Beechcraft, reminiscent of when his legs didn't work there the first time around with Boone.

Are some things starting to repeat themselves, or echo themselves? If so, why?

P.S. I hope this actually happened during The Lie and not BYL. They are already mixing in my head.

Darn good point...Locke went limp in S1 at the plane, cuz his body 'remembered' getting shot there in the past, not cuz his paralysis came back.

now that makes sense.

I suppose you could be right. I just thought it was more of a "haha" moment. Sawyer stepped on the same dart again. You're idea is better though.

Darn good point...Locke went limp in S1 at the plane, cuz his body 'remembered' getting shot there in the past, not cuz his paralysis came back.

now that makes sense.
Thanks for affirming me guys. :biggrin: But I have to say JPB, you took this a step further, and in an awesome way. Cool idea.

JBP and JennyLee... great ideas. I never even thought about that!!

Darn good point...Locke went limp in S1 at the plane, cuz his body 'remembered' getting shot there in the past, not cuz his paralysis came back.

now that makes sense.


Me likey. Good thoughts

Darn good point...Locke went limp in S1 at the plane, cuz his body 'remembered' getting shot there in the past, not cuz his paralysis came back.

now that makes sense.
I think it was more of the Island not wanting him to be the person to be up in the plane. The Island wanted Boone to go up there, and to die there, and both times Locke wanted to go up, the Island prevented him from doing so.

I think people are overcomplicating things, Sawyer simply stepped on a twig he had no shoes on in the jungle. Sometimes a twig is just a twig.

I have to agree, just stepped on a twig, and producers decided to reference it.

After the Losties ran from the beach during the arrow attack, Sawyer stepped on a dart in the jungle. Remember when he stepped on one when he and Kate were fleeing from the Hydra (I think during Not in Portland)? Why did they include that in this episode?

It also seemed a bit deja vu when Locke got shot at the Beechcraft, reminiscent of when his legs didn't work there the first time around with Boone.

Are some things starting to repeat themselves, or echo themselves? If so, why?


I think they put Sawyer stepping on the dart to be reminiscent of the post-Hydra (I think it was actually SIASL without looking it up), moving thru the jungle, this time with Jules instead of Kate. The next scene they were crouched in hiding looking at some "Other people" walking by in rags, which was reminiscent of Eko and Jin doing the same thing. Or Kate & Sawyer while back on Hydra right after their escape, for that matter.

Darn good point...Locke went limp in S1 at the plane, cuz his body 'remembered' getting shot there in the past, not cuz his paralysis came back.
Fascinating! I always wondered why Locke had leg problems back there with Boone. Has anybody researched whether the same leg he got shot in was the one he wounded in DEM?

I still believe that the Losties have lived through all of this at one point in time... They have experienced this all and have time jumped and their currect consciousness does not allow them to remember.. Maybe that's why Desmond is special, because he can remember it and alter it..

When Richard visits Locke as a little kid and he points at the compass, Richard says "Not yet John" and now he gave him that compass in the premiere...

I strongly believe that the twig is not just a twig and Locke forgetting how to walk in that particular area all back up that theory, that the losties have in fact gone through this similar ordeal at one point...

I made a giant post regarding Ben knowing everything that's gonna happen because he's already lived through it, and maybe the losties are the same as well, but without all the information Ben has

it's funny you say this.

In the s4 finale, when Sawyer came out of the water after jumping and said to Juliet "nice day for a swim', I could've SWORN that same thing happened back in S1, almost frame for frame where he came out of the water like that and said something similar to Kate. it was totally a Deja Vu moment.



Also, is it possible that him stepping on that twig/dart causes him to get gangreen and lose a toe?
Wouldn't that make him have 4 toes?
Didn't TPTB say they are going to explain the 4 toed statue soon?

OMG.... ewwwww... I hope he doesn't lose a toe.

I think people are overcomplicating things, Sawyer simply stepped on a twig he had no shoes on in the jungle. Sometimes a twig is just a twig.
Maybe, but I really saw a dart in that shot. I'll look more closely when I rewatch.

Just had a close look at it and it looks like a piece of bamboo shoot. Thick, greenish and segmented.

I think it was more of the Island not wanting him to be the person to be up in the plane. The Island wanted Boone to go up there, and to die there, and both times Locke wanted to go up, the Island prevented him from doing so.


This makes more sense than Locke's body "remembering" getting shot, because why would it? Yes he went back in time, but it has nothing to do with climbing up to the plane. For his body to "remember" the injury I would think that the timeframes would have to be the same, which goes back to the "they've already lived through this before" theory. In that case, the first time they tried this, or whenever Locke's legs started to give out, is when he got shot or injured. Then in the second try, the injury was "remembered" by Locke's body similar to the theory of the whispers that I've seen.

Yeah, I think it was a sharp twig. I was wondering why the focused on it so much. I honestly don't even remember it happening previously. If it was in SIASL as someone upthread said, then that is why I don't remember. I haven't been able to watch that one more than once!

Yeah, I think it was a sharp twig. I was wondering why the focused on it so much. I honestly don't even remember it happening previously. If it was in SIASL as someone upthread said, then that is why I don't remember. I haven't been able to watch that one more than once!
In SIASL Sawyer stepped on a dart which was hatch debris. I think in this case it was just a twig, Sawyer was shoeless he was bound to step on something. I don't think the twig had anything to do space time phenomena happening on the island. People have a tendency to overcomplicate things when discussing Lost.

He was also shoeless in The Brig when he went with Locke into the jungle to the Black Rock and killed Cooper - aka Sawyer.

There's some strange retred going on...

I like the term "echoes" that someone used here.

So why else did Locke's legs fail him the first time?

And a twig is not a bracelet...

Anyone notice any other similarities to previous episodes? If the twig and the shooting are "echoes" of time...did anyone notice any other such things to search out as possible echoes.

Sawyer stepped on a dart in Tricia Tanaka Is Dead when he and Kate were coming back from the other Island. Kate pulled it out for him.

They could have showed Sawyer stepping on something just to reinforce how bad his day was going, or as I've read elsewhere he may lose a toe and somehow go back in time, influencing the people enough to build him a statue (the four-toed statue). But I really think, given that odd behavior by Locke at the plane, it is an echo.

A recapper named Erika at Dark's had an interesting related theory:

. . .
Who are the only characters left from Season One that remain on the Island in Season Five and are now drifting through time? Locke, Sawyer and Rose. There are reasons to believe that all three of these crash survivors had buried memories of their time-jumping experiences from the moment they landed on the Island.

. . .

In the pilot episode of our beloved series, when the Losties first heard Smokey in the jungle and saw trees swaying and crashing in the distance, Rose said, "That sound that it made, I keep thinking that there was something really familiar about it."

You may also recall that Rose was absolutely adamant that her husband was alive elsewhere on the Island. At the time we all attributed this to Rose's strong faith. But what if she actually knew about both the monster and the fact that Bernard would eventually be found because these memories were in her mind from the time-jumping?



Some of you probably remember me harping on and on over the years about an offhanded comment Sawyer made in "White Rabbit" (episode five of the first season). Kate tackled him because she thought he was hoarding the group's water. He replied, "It's about time -- I made this birthday wish four years ago."

I thought it was a totally bizarre line in 2004, and now I am absolutely convinced that it was there on purpose -- to prove the existence of either time travel or a time loop for the characters from the very beginning. (I'll attempt to explain the "four years" part later in this post.)

But here's the kicker: I don't think that either Rose or Sawyer were even conscious of these buried memories or the fact that they may have gone through certain events on the Island more than once. The comments they made in Season One that seem suspicious could be compared to when something comes out of your mouth before you had a chance to think about it too much. Obviously Sawyer and Rose would've acted much differently throughout Seasons One - Four if they were actually fully aware of what transpired during their time-jumps. But I can't be as certain about Locke...




While Locke's sudden unexplained paralysis kind of fits this explanation, Sawyer's sprout doesn't - he actually gets stabbed again, it isn't just familiar. Still Locke had a physical manifestion, not just a memory like Erika's theory proposes. It's an interesting idea though, that they're reliving things, either physically, or through a memory. I'm sure we'll find out more soon.

i think they had sawyer step on a dart to show that they were now on the island after the swan station exploded. the first time he stepped on a dart, it was blown out into the jungle in the explosion. i think it's just a way to frame that scene in the timeline of events.

Darn good point...Locke went limp in S1 at the plane, cuz his body 'remembered' getting shot there in the past, not cuz his paralysis came back.


now that makes sense.

It might make more sense if only one of Locke's legs gave out, but both of them did.
He had no feeling in them, as well. More like paralysis, than a gun-shot wound.
I think it may be just juxtaposition.

But why did they like...zoom in on it and really focus on it? That scene was very out of place and unnecessary unless you believe that it happened for a reason.

it's funny you say this.

In the s4 finale, when Sawyer came out of the water after jumping and said to Juliet "nice day for a swim', I could've SWORN that same thing happened back in S1, almost frame for frame where he came out of the water like that and said something similar to Kate. it was totally a Deja Vu moment.

I felt the same way at the end of last season. I think with Kate he came out of the water without pants on. Same kind of thing, though. It's like Sawyer's version on groundhog day but with a different woman.

The dart wouldn't have been there before the hatch imploded, if it's the dart I'm thinking of, well, one of several. If it was a dart, and I have no idea one way or the other, that could mean that little scene with the soldiers was from the future. But it could have just as likely been a twig. I will say, I like the idea of echoes of things past, past in the individuals history not the island's history. That part's pretty clear and still very confusing.

Yeah, I don't think it was a dart, so it wouldn't really work to show it was post-hatch blast.

Sawyer's foot (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1454-390.html)


Looking at where the twig went in, and then which toe was cut off the four-toed statue, I don't think that theory's going to hold water either.

Four Toed Statue (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Foot-statue.jpg)

Darn good point...Locke went limp in S1 at the plane, cuz his body 'remembered' getting shot there in the past, not cuz his paralysis came back.

now that makes sense.

Funny that you mentioned that since Sci Fi Channel just ran that episode last night.
I think that is a great theory

It's an interesting idea though, that they're reliving things, either physically, or through a memory. I'm sure we'll find out more soon.

Brings a whole new meaning to "it'll come back around", doesn't it? ;)

the scene with locke at the plane echoed an experience he had off island as well. when he was shot, his fall was very reminiscent of the fall he had when his father pushed him out the window. he landed flat on his back just as he had before, and he appeared to immediately be concerned with his ability to move his legs. as someone pointed out earlier, both of his legs were temporarily impaired when he went to the plane with Boone before, maybe that was a result of the "echoed fall" rather than the gunshot.

the scene with locke at the plane echoed an experience he had off island as well. when he was shot, his fall was very reminiscent of the fall he had when his father pushed him out the window. he landed flat on his back just as he had before, and he appeared to immediately be concerned with his ability to move his legs. as someone pointed out earlier, both of his legs were temporarily impaired when he went to the plane with Boone before, maybe that was a result of the "echoed fall" rather than the gunshot.

But remember, Locke hadn't been shot by Ethan yet when he went to the Beechcraft with Boone. Ethan shooting Locke takes place after that, relatively. His body/mind wouldn't remember any of that BEFORE it happened. Ditto for Rose and the sound of the smoke monster. It's like if I went back in time today to you in high school, gave you a hug, said it was for Lost and disappeared. You would suddenly remember that now in 2009 and say "Gee, can't believe I forgot that." You would never have remembered it in the years between because it hadn't happened until I went back. Ya dig? I've had a tough time explaining time travel since Back to the Future.

But remember, Locke hadn't been shot by Ethan yet when he went to the Beechcraft with Boone. Ethan shooting Locke takes place after that, relatively. His body/mind wouldn't remember any of that BEFORE it happened. Ditto for Rose and the sound of the smoke monster. It's like if I went back in time today to you in high school, gave you a hug, said it was for Lost and disappeared. You would suddenly remember that now in 2009 and say "Gee, can't believe I forgot that." You would never have remembered it in the years between because it hadn't happened until I went back. Ya dig? I've had a tough time explaining time travel since Back to the Future.

I think the idea is there is a loop, a loop that is stuck. Remember the record that was "skipping" at the beginning of the episode. It was actually playing the same few seconds over and over again- a loop. so if there is a loop, perhaps all along we've been seeing different iterations (and not known it) of the loop and the Losties don't exactly know they're looping but they're imprinted with the past iterations of the loop.

I just watched the scene again where Sawyer steps on something in the jungle. I really don't think it's a dart - I think it's a stick. I have HDTV and looked at it several times. That being said, I do think there is going to be some kind of significance - it seems like a big deal to emphasize it as much as they did.

After the Losties ran from the beach during the arrow attack, Sawyer stepped on a dart in the jungle. Remember when he stepped on one when he and Kate were fleeing from the Hydra (I think during Not in Portland)? Why did they include that in this episode?

It also seemed a bit deja vu when Locke got shot at the Beechcraft, reminiscent of when his legs didn't work there the first time around with Boone.

Are some things starting to repeat themselves, or echo themselves? If so, why?

P.S. I hope this actually happened during The Lie and not BYL. They are already mixing in my head.


I thought Sawyer had stepped on something before but I couldn't remember when. Sawyer and Juliet watching the Other (soldiers) pass like Mr. Eko and Jin watched the Others pass.

Kate insisting to the Marshal there were mitigating circumstances.

We are going to see so many things that are intertwined back into the story we thought we knew.

:allhail:
TPTB

Thanks to everyone who likes the idea! I didn't feel any overt "echoes" last night, but that doesn't mean this idea is dead.