I'm just confused by Richard's apparent knowledge of the present time shifting and such - but he said the next time Locke saw him, Richard wouldn't recognize him? Obviously Richard is something special in-and-of himself, and maybe other people weren't as puzzled by him in this epi ... could someone explain to me how he knew? :biggrin:

Everytime we see Richard, either in the present, when he recruited Juliet, or when Ben was a child...Richard is the same age. So, he obviously has been time travelling for a while. I am not sure if he was born on the island...but something is making him not get the nose bleeds that some of the other characters experience with time travel.

yes, that I had noticed ... I suppose there isn't really a pat down answer (in true form to the show, haha) ... I think I was just very tired last night, lol

I'm just confused by Richard's apparent knowledge of the present time shifting and such - but he said the next time Locke saw him, Richard wouldn't recognize him? Obviously Richard is something special in-and-of himself, and maybe other people weren't as puzzled by him in this epi ... could someone explain to me how he knew? :biggrin:

This is just my intuition :), but.... (and I am not sure if I will say this coherently because I have a hard time wrapping my mind around this at times ^_^):

I think that this may be tied to the s4 episode where we see Richard in Locke's past. Perhaps Richard travelled to several points in Locke's life to try and "catch" Locke at as early of a point as possible to where he has knowledge of the island.

We could very well have an episode down the road where Locke "travels" to the past to when Richard came to his foster home, and *this* time he has the knowledge to choose the compass. If he chose the compass out of all those objects then Richard would "know" that toddler Locke "knows" the island. It's already strange enough to have seen toddler Locke draw pictures of the smoke monster attacking people.

There is a major, undisclosed reason as to why Locke is so insanely important to the Island. With the time travelling going around - it still makes me wonder if Jacob really doesn't in fact = Locke.

Richard was not time traveling and there is no evidence that he ever has. He does not age.

When the first flash happened, Locke found himself alone. Later when Richard found him, he asked where did Richard go and Richard said, I didn't go anywhere John, you did.

The only people currently time traveling (and by currently I mean in the two episodes that aired on Jan 21, 2009) are the Survivors of Flight 815, the three remaining Freighter people, and Juliet. In other words people who have been on the Island less than 4 years.

Richard knew where to find Locke because Locke will go further into the past and tell Richard when and where to find him. But the next time Locke flashes it will be to a point in time prior to when He and Richard met. Technically it will be the first time they meet.

Since Faraday said nothing changes and what happened, happened, the next time Locke sees Richard will be the first time Richard has ever seen Locke, and that is why Richard says, "I don't believe we've been formally introduced." on the hill in the Other's camp when John wouldn't kill his father.

I think that Richard is simply immortal. He always stays the same age. So he has just one timeline and is always at "his present". That would explain why on the other hand would meet with baby Locke and then say "the next time I won't know you" (because that would happen even earlier.)

Makes sense, no?

Richard was not time traveling and there is no evidence that he ever has. He does not age.

When the first flash happened, Locke found himself alone. Later when Richard found him, he asked where did Richard go and Richard said, I didn't go anywhere John, you did.

The only people currently time traveling (and by currently I mean in the two episodes that aired on Jan 21, 2009) are the Survivors of Flight 815, the three remaining Freighter people, and Juliet. In other words people who have been on the Island less than 4 years.

Richard knew where to find Locke because Locke will go further into the past and tell Richard when and where to find him. But the next time Locke flashes it will be to a point in time prior to when He and Richard met. Technically it will be the first time they meet.

Since Faraday said nothing changes and what happened, happened, the next time Locke sees Richard will be the first time Richard has ever seen Locke, and that is why Richard says, "I don't believe we've been formally introduced." on the hill in the Other's camp when John wouldn't kill his father.

I concur. Richard remembers sometime in his past, a man named Locke showed up, hands him a compass, and maybe even tells him a story about how Richard fixed his leg.

I think the explanation is simple I'll put it in spoiler tags just in case
John went back in time, that is why Richard gave him the compass and told him to give it to him(Richard) when they met the next time. John went back in time, in the next episode Richard will meet Locke again and not recognize him. Judging by the soldier's uniforms I would guess they're somewhere in the fifties long before 815 crashed. Locke will tell Richard when and how he got the compass and Richard will remember and know to show up when Locke is shot. That kind of circular nature of events is common in time travel stories.

If you were following the Island flashes and paid attention to Faraday's explanation of the Island's time anomaly then here's what you can be sure of... I think.

If the Island is moving on one string back and forth (past and future) then that means that the future is already decided and everyone has a predetermined destiny.

Here are the flashes
The first flash was obviously in the past when the Nigerian Plane crashed, Ethan shot Locke, Locke fell...

The second flash was obviously in the future at a time that is still undisclosed to us, the audience. Locke hides behind the plane and Alpert finds him and says that Locke has told him he's shot, Alpert cleans the wound, explains to Locke what has to happen...

Third flash, we're before the hatch was discovered and Desmond is still inside, so we're in the past before the crash, Faraday talks to Desmond, everyone walks back to the beach. Bernard tries to start a fire, it gets dark, Miles finds a boar, flaming arrow attack.

Here's what I don't get though. It almost seems like... the Island is going in some sort of order of traveling through time and like it's happened before in the same order or something. I haven't fully thought all this out but it would seem that there's a lot of traveling back and forth that we haven't seen yet that will probably explain why Richard actually knew about Locke and why Richard has been visiting Locke. Who knows... this is half thought out. I'm not a legit theorist. LOL!

When Richard gives Locke the compass he tells him to show it to him the next time the see each other because he will not recognize him.

This is interesting because it implies that Richard KNOWS that then next time they meet will be in the past before Richard has ever known of Locke. How could Richard know this? How does he know for instance that the next time they see each other won't be after the island skips into the future after the plane crash when he know full well who Locke is?

It is like Richard knows the Island Time Skip Schedule.

When Richard gives Locke the compass he tells him to show it to him the next time the see each other because he will not recognize him.

This is interesting because it implies that Richard KNOWS that then next time they meet will be in the past before Richard has ever known of Locke. How could Richard know this? How does he know for instance that the next time they see each other won't be after the island skips into the future after the plane crash when he know full well who Locke is?

It is like Richard knows the Island Time Skip Schedule.

Richard won't remember Locke in the past because it could be before Locke was ever born. Also Richard knows because he remembers it from his past, which in turn is Locke's future. He remember meeting a John Locke on the island and that's why he knew eventually where he would be. Because when he meets John in the past, John tells him where he will be in the future after the island moves back in time.

Because Locke went back to a time before he and Richard met.

Not sure about that but remember that Richard Alpert actually met Locke when Locke was a little boy, where we notice, that Alpert never ages. Richard Alpert is unstuck in time, like 'Billy' from Kurt Vonneguts' 'Slaughterhouse Five'.

Richard knows this because he remembers meeting Locke and not knowing him, and Locke giving him the compass so that he trusts him. Locke, tells him where he will be and that he was shot.

Time passes, and then Alpert finds Locke and gives him the info so that when Locke travels back in time, he has the compass for Alpert

Because Locke went back to a time before he and Richard met.
Yes, I understand that Locke could travel back to a time before he met Richard, but I think Richard said "The next time we meet..." How could Richard know that the next time they meet would be in a time before they met? How does he KNOW that the island won't skip 5 minutes ahead on the next jump and they will meet and know each other?

Just when I think I'm getting it....
But if Richard already met John in the present or past, then any time traveling from now on (past or future) he should know him because he's met him before (cant change what has happened)... been following him his whole life actually. So unless the island travels back in time before JL was born, the Richard should always recognize locke, right??? someone please tell me if i'm thinking about this straight!

Just when I think I'm getting it....
But if Richard already met John in the present or past, then any time traveling from now on (past or future) he should know him because he's met him before (cant change what has happened)... been following him his whole life actually. So unless the island travels back in time before JL was born, the Richard should always recognize locke, right??? someone please tell me if i'm thinking about this straight!
Yes, I think you are. My problem is that Richard seems to KNOW that the next time he sees Locke will be in a time before Locke was born. Kind of like he knows the Islands time skipping schedule.

Yes, I understand that Locke could travel back to a time before he met Richard, but I think Richard said "The next time we meet..." How could Richard know that the next time they meet would be in a time before they met? How does he KNOW that the island won't skip 5 minutes ahead on the next jump and they will meet and know each other?
Because in Richard's time line, whenever it is that Locke tells him when and where to meet him to pull the bullet out of his leg, he probably alerts him of the impending 'first' meeting between them, as well.

Either that or Richard remembers in his own past the first time he actually met Locke on the island (which the audience will have yet to see) and puts the pieces together, since he knows a great deal about what is going on, it seems.

Yes, I understand that Locke could travel back to a time before he met Richard, but I think Richard said "The next time we meet..." How could Richard know that the next time they meet would be in a time before they met? How does he KNOW that the island won't skip 5 minutes ahead on the next jump and they will meet and know each other?
Well it's kind of a predestination paradox but I'll try and put it in spoiler tags in case I'm right
Locke will go back in time to a point before he and Richard met, that is why Richard gave Locke the compass so that past Richard would believe what Locke said. Richard remembers his meeting with Locke in the past which is why he says "The next time we meet I won't know you." Locke will tell him about how he helped stitch up Locke's leg, Locke will tell him where and when which is why Richard knew to show up when he did with a first aid kit. It's one of those circular nature of time travel paradoxes that often occurs in time travel stories. If Locke hadn't gone back and told past Richard about their meeting he wouldn't have known to show up in the future and repair Locke's leg and give Locke the information which Locke will give to him.

I wonder though if
The time travel explains Richard's visit to child Locke and Abbadon's visit to Locke in the hospital. Judging from the uniforms of the guys at the end of The Lie they flashed back to the fifties. If my above explanation is true then Locke will tell Richard about his seeing Jacob, Richard will want to go find Locke and see if he's "special" and give young Locke the test. The test is important because I don't think young Locke failed the test but Richard may have misinterpretted the meaning of the test. As shown by his efforts to contact teenage Locke. If Widmore is on the island in the past at the point Locke flased back to he would know about Locke also and Abbadon would to, why Widmore would want to inspire Locke to go to Australia has yet to be seen.

Yes, I understand that Locke could travel back to a time before he met Richard, but I think Richard said "The next time we meet..." How could Richard know that the next time they meet would be in a time before they met? How does he KNOW that the island won't skip 5 minutes ahead on the next jump and they will meet and know each other?
Yes, you are right. Richard remembers meeting Locke in his own past. He remembers exactly when this was, because it already happened. But how does he know there isn't an intervening meeting, sometime in the future beyond when he removes the bullet? I'd say that he doesn't.... except that maybe he does know that the skips are like the pendulum, backward, forward, backward, forward. The next swing will be backward. And since there was no meeting in between each of the compass hand-offs, the next meeting for Locke will be the one Richard has already experienced. Whew. :)

Please only spoiler font actual spoilers, not things you think might happen in future episodes based only on what we have already seen in an episode! Thanks.

Okay I had multiquotes going but I haven't been on here in months till today so it didn't work, lol ... but w/o reviewing everything again here's my reply

Yes, you are right. Richard remembers meeting Locke in his own past. He remembers exactly when this was, because it already happened. But how does he know there isn't an intervening meeting, sometime in the future beyond when he removes the bullet? I'd say that he doesn't.... except that maybe he does know that the skips are like the pendulum, backward, forward, backward, forward. The next swing will be backward. And since there was no meeting in between each of the compass hand-offs, the next meeting for Locke will be the one Richard has already experienced. Whew.


I'm glad some of you could put a bit of into words; my poor mommy-brain was trying to think about what was actually going on ... the problem is I don't know if I'm less confused than I was before ... or more, LOL!

But it's certainly interesting to hear some theories on all of this. I wouldn't necessarily say that Richard can't time travel, just that in this particular episode he wasn't the one time traveling. But maybe he is immortal ... anyway thanks everyone for your replies thus far!

But how does he know there isn't an intervening meeting, sometime in the future beyond when he removes the bullet? I'd say that he doesn't.... except that maybe he does know that the skips are like the pendulum, backward, forward, backward, forward. The next swing will be backward. And since there was no meeting in between each of the compass hand-offs, the next meeting for Locke will be the one Richard has already experienced. Whew. :)

And maybe because when Locke goes back and meets him "for the first time," Locke also says that he just came from talking to him about this very meeting, and so then Richard knows that the next time they meet after the bullet-removal meeting, that it'll be the first time they meet. :)

I'm just confused by Richard's apparent knowledge of the present time shifting and such - but he said the next time Locke saw him, Richard wouldn't recognize him? Obviously Richard is something special in-and-of himself, and maybe other people weren't as puzzled by him in this epi ... could someone explain to me how he knew? :biggrin:

I do not pretend to exactly know what Richard's relevance is or is becoming, but I am excited because I think this character can have so much depth. I have always felt like he was in control of Ben to some degree and would not be surprised if his ties to Jacob or the Island are the greatest of all when it is all over.

Yes, I think you are. My problem is that Richard seems to KNOW that the next time he sees Locke will be in a time before Locke was born. Kind of like he knows the Islands time skipping schedule.

I thought it was evident that they knew the "skipping schedule".

How else would they know that they have 70 hours to get back to the Island?
And by "they" I mean everyone but the Losties.

I concur. Richard remembers sometime in his past, a man named Locke showed up, hands him a compass, and maybe even tells him a story about how Richard fixed his leg.
So he goes off the island and tries to find a kid called John Locke and gave him a test: which item belongs to you?;)

I'm glad some of you could put a bit of into words; my poor mommy-brain was trying to think about what was actually going on ... the problem is I don't know if I'm less confused than I was before ... or more, LOL!
Glad to help. I have mommy brain these days myself. :) BTW, I don't think any of this sheds light on whether or not Richard ages - he certainly didn't look any younger in Ben's FB in TMBTC. That could certainly be a different phenomenon than him traveling to Locke's childhood to meet him.

And maybe because when Locke goes back and meets him "for the first time," Locke also says that he just came from talking to him about this very meeting, and so then Richard knows that the next time they meet after the bullet-removal meeting, that it'll be the first time they meet. :)
Yep, could be. Nice clean answer.
I thought it was evident that they knew the "skipping schedule".

How else would they know that they have 70 hours to get back to the Island?
And by "they" I mean everyone but the Losties.
Do we know that Richard knows the 70 hours? Did he say that to Locke? I thought that was only being discussed off the island, between Hawking and Ben. Daniel, the world's expert on this, doesn't seem to know how long the window is yet for them. And actually... I don't think the 70 hours applies on island, considering that the O6 are already 3 years gone.
So he goes off the island and tries to find a kid called John Locke and gave him a test: which item belongs to you?;)
For sure! This definitely happens after a guy named Locke materializes in front of Richard, says he will be their new leader, and gives Richard a compass to prove it.

Completely off the wall theory, but what if Richard is not time traveling....but everyone else is. He's seen all these people before because they are skipping around in time. Basically all this stuff is happening during 2 or 3 years of his life (no one would age drastically in that time), but to everyone jumping around it seems to be during their whole life.

Maybe the island is the only place where time runs at it's "proper" pace.

Ok, was just talking to some friends about this and I wrote this:

OK, when Locke timeshifts to seeing the Beechcraft crash, and Ethan shoots him, he tells him he's John Locke, gonna be their leader, yada yada....The way I see it is Ethan went back, told them this story about meeting this guy, shooting him, what he said, he disappeared....then later on when the Losties crash, the Others put 2 and 2 together and realize John is that John Locke (Ethan was at the camp, would have recognized him) and that he's "special" or whatever. I think that's how Richard knows to be there to patch John up, give him the quick talk and the compass.

It's the compass thing...I can't get around the paradox. Richard tells John the next time he sees him, Richard won't know him, so give him the compass. Logically, that means there are at least 2 more timeshifts for John. One into the past, where he sees Richard and Richard doesn't know him. Another into the future where he can tell Richard of this event.

When has Richard not known John? That's what bugs me.

Richard knew John when John was a boy. And you can't go back and change the past. So even if it were something like John traveled back to the 50's, somehow got a message and the compass to young John without actually interacting with himself, so young John gives Richard that compass, that meeting had already happened, so that can't happen.

And if it were a future event, he already knows John. So the key word has to be "recognize" in that sceneario.

So the recognizing event, in my opinion, has to be in the past, right after 815 crashed, but before they met up with the Others. And John knows Richard (because this would be his present) but Richard wouldn't know John yet, right?

(Ok ^ ^ ^ that's what I wrote. Comments upon finding this thread below. v v v)

Did Richard say John told him where he would be when he was injured? The Ethan thing was a logical jump for me. Sorry if I had that wrong there.

IMO, they're not going to jump to a time before John was born.

Look at it as 2 timelines, John's timeline and Richard's timeline. In John's timeline, Richard came to him as a little boy and gave him the test. But in Richard's timeline, this hasn't happened yet! Not until after he meets adult John Locke on the island.

So the next time we see John and Richard meet will be right after 815 crashes.

And maybe because when Locke goes back and meets him "for the first time," Locke also says that he just came from talking to him about this very meeting, and so then Richard knows that the next time they meet after the bullet-removal meeting, that it'll be the first time they meet. :)This makes perfect sense to me. To be more presise. It will be the first time Richard meets John. But NOT the first time John meets Richard.

Completely off the wall theory, but what if Richard is not time traveling....but everyone else is. He's seen all these people before because they are skipping around in time. Basically all this stuff is happening during 2 or 3 years of his life (no one would age drastically in that time), but to everyone jumping around it seems to be during their whole life.

Maybe the island is the only place where time runs at it's "proper" pace.
I like this, and totally see what you're saying, but the fact that we saw Richard looking the same, albeit with longer hair, back when Ben wiped out the DI, I don't see this as jiving. :shrug:

//Richard tells John the next time he sees him, John won't know him, so give him the compass//

I thought it was the other way around. Richard wouldn't recognize John. Ah, got to watch the whole thing again!

//Richard tells John the next time he sees him, John won't know him, so give him the compass//

I thought it was the other way around. Richard wouldn't recognize John. Ah, got to watch the whole thing again!
No! That was my mistake. Thanks for catching it. I edited my post. Typing too fast, trying to wrap my head around all this....:redface:

I don't believe Richard or anyone knows the time skipping "schedule." If it is as Faraday said, like a record skipping, then it's just random when the island hops and to which time it hops.

So how does Richard know that the next time John sees him after giving him the compass it will be a time before Richard knew who he was? Simple, when John meets Richard in the past and shows him the compass, he tells him everything that has happened to him. So past Richard will know that Locke just jumped from the future and had just spoken to his future self. Thus, the Richard in the future who removed John's bullet who has all of his memories of his past, including meeting John for the first time, knows where John is skipping to next.

While it's sort of wordy to write out, if you only think of these timelines linearly, it's not that difficult to figure out.

There is a major, undisclosed reason as to why Locke is so insanely important to the Island. With the time travelling going around - it still makes me wonder if Jacob really doesn't in fact = Locke.

great observation zillah, i think that Locke might end up being Jacob too

great observation zillah, i think that Locke might end up being Jacob too

^_^ ty.

I just feel like there are a lot of clues both subtle and heavy handed, that Locke is so central to a lot of this.

I still feel too that the meeting with Richard and foster son Locke is going to be something we see again from another point of view down the road. They focused in on both the drawing that Locke did of the smoke monster - and on each object.

The knife - represents the self that Locke thinks he is. There is major repeition throughout Locke's FB's about not being told who he is, that he is a hunter, etc. When everyone is constantly telling him the opposite... that he is a farmer, a gatherer, etc... (And his father tells him via his actions, that Locke is the hunted/prey of a real hunter.)

the Book of Law - this is referenced in S2 by Mr. Eko when he tells John the story of Josiah, the good king of the Jews who built a temple not with gold but with the Book of Law - the Old Testament.

The sand - most likely the island.

The compass - this may be the self that Richard is trying to tell him he is. A compass leads and shows the way to a true heading. If you are going to follow anyone in uncharted territory, the safe/smart thing would be to follow the guy who knows where he is going.


Richard both seems to be outside of it all. I think he is definitely acting on orders that come from higher up and outside what the current leadership may be. I think that he may have sought Locke out because of something that he learns in the future. Perhaps he is trying to change the timeline by getting Locke to the Island earlier but the "rules" haven't allowed that to happen because Locke has to come to the island with this crash.

As weird as it was to see Richard looking at Locke as an infant, I think he was there out of genuine goodness. In contrast we have Abbadon visiting Locke (and we know he has been on Widmore's payroll some of the time) and that visit feels a lot more sinister.

My other intuitive hunch is that Richard may be Alvar Hanso - the captain of the Black Rock. (This stems from the first time Ben meets Richard and the strange outfit he is wearing.)

In any case, I think it could be a safe bet that at some point in Season Six we will have a Richard Flashback. He is important enough that the creators of the show almost had a heartattack to not have him be in S5-6. ANd he may be so important that we can't know too much about him until the end.

Remember Richard also knew John when he was first born. He smiled at baby Locke from the baby viewing window which made John's grand mother nervous. So John would have to go back to before he was born for Richard to not know him.

Remember Richard also knew John when he was first born. He smiled at baby Locke from the baby viewing window which made John's grand mother nervous. So John would have to go back to before he was born for Richard to not know him.
I am still of the opinion that Richard first meets John on the island. That's how he knows to travel off island to check on young John. The next meeting between Richard and John (the *first* for Richard) will set all that in motion.

Ok, was just talking to some friends about this and I wrote this:

OK, when Locke timeshifts to seeing the Beechcraft crash, and Ethan shoots him, he tells him he's John Locke, gonna be their leader, yada yada....The way I see it is Ethan went back, told them this story about meeting this guy, shooting him, what he said, he disappeared....then later on when the Losties crash, the Others put 2 and 2 together and realize John is that John Locke (Ethan was at the camp, would have recognized him) and that he's "special" or whatever. I think that's how Richard knows to be there to patch John up, give him the quick talk and the compass.

It's the compass thing...I can't get around the paradox. Richard tells John the next time he sees him, Richard won't know him, so give him the compass. Logically, that means there are at least 2 more timeshifts for John. One into the past, where he sees Richard and Richard doesn't know him. Another into the future where he can tell Richard of this event.

When has Richard not known John? That's what bugs me.

Richard knew John when John was a boy. And you can't go back and change the past. So even if it were something like John traveled back to the 50's, somehow got a message and the compass to young John without actually interacting with himself, so young John gives Richard that compass, that meeting had already happened, so that can't happen.

And if it were a future event, he already knows John. So the key word has to be "recognize" in that sceneario.

So the recognizing event, in my opinion, has to be in the past, right after 815 crashed, but before they met up with the Others. And John knows Richard (because this would be his present) but Richard wouldn't know John yet, right?

(Ok ^ ^ ^ that's what I wrote. Comments upon finding this thread below. v v v)

Did Richard say John told him where he would be when he was injured? The Ethan thing was a logical jump for me. Sorry if I had that wrong there.

IMO, they're not going to jump to a time before John was born.

Look at it as 2 timelines, John's timeline and Richard's timeline. In John's timeline, Richard came to him as a little boy and gave him the test. But in Richard's timeline, this hasn't happened yet! Not until after he meets adult John Locke on the island.

So the next time we see John and Richard meet will be right after 815 crashes.


No, they already jumped back to the 70ies, the time we saw in the opening of the first episode and the time they are in now, and will remain for awhile.

This means that Richard will also travel in time.

Since we are not going to reach for any timelines but rather assume that its just one timeline that is selfrepairing.

John is now back in the 70ies where he will meet Richard and hand him the compass (probably saving everyones lives), then Richard will have to travel back to the 50ies to talk to John as a child.


The ONE paradox that I cant get through my head is HOW did Richard know where and most importantly WHEN to find John?

Remember Richard NEVER told John when he was, so how could john tell a Past Richard WHEN exactly to hang out by the plane with some bandaid ??


-Exodus

No, they already jumped back to the 70ies, the time we saw in the opening of the first episode and the time they are in now, and will remain for awhile.

This means that Richard will also travel in time.

Since we are not going to reach for any timelines but rather assume that its just one timeline that is selfrepairing.

John is now back in the 70ies where he will meet Richard and hand him the compass (probably saving everyones lives), then Richard will have to travel back to the 50ies to talk to John as a child.


The ONE paradox that I cant get through my head is HOW did Richard know where and most importantly WHEN to find John?

Remember Richard NEVER told John when he was, so how could john tell a Past Richard WHEN exactly to hang out by the plane with some bandaid ??


-ExodusI don't understand how you can firmly say that they are now in the 70s, much less remain there for a while. :confused: How do we know WHEN Dan's jump to the DI from the episode opening happens? We don't.

Richard knew how and when to find John because either A. Ethan told him or B. John told him.

We already know Richard travels in time. We've seen him in John's past at least twice.


eta....sorry Starrox, thanks for catching that! :redface:

I don't understand how you can firmly say that they are now in the 70s, much less remain there for a while. :confused: How do we know WHEN Dan's jump to the DI from the episode opening happens? We don't.

Richard knew how and when to find John because either A. Ethan told him or B. John told him.

We already know Richard travels in time. We've seen him in John's past at least twice.

If ur right about them not being in the 70ies that means the soldiers they met where not Dharma people. No way to tell since they had no markings, so they COULD be in the past before John is born, and thus Richard never needs to timetravel, he gets the compass from John who promptly disappears, and Richard is left wandering the earth for time trying to piece things together where he decides to track down the young Locke.

Which means this timeline is probably not the same as the one in the opening with Dan.

However how could Richard know when to find John?

A. Ethan has no idea,
he found John in the past and has no way of knowing when in the future John will jump to.

B. John has no idea when in the future he was
since Richard never told him
and there where no events to signify anything memorable.


So how did Richard know when to look?


-Exodus

If ur right about them not being in the 70ies that means the soldiers they met where not Dharma people. No way to tell since they had no markings, so they COULD be in the past before John is born, and thus Richard never needs to timetravel, he gets the compass from John who promptly disappears, and Richard is left wandering the earth for time trying to piece things together where he decides to track down the young Locke.

Which means this timeline is probably not the same as the one in the opening with Dan.

However how could Richard know when to find John?

A. Ethan has no idea,
he found John in the past and has no way of knowing when in the future John will jump to.

B. John has no idea when in the future he was
since Richard never told him
and there where no events to signify anything memorable.


So how did Richard know when to look?


-Exodus
The exactly when....uhhh....I haven't figured that one out yet. :wink3:

So, what do we know about the time?

- It's after the Beechcraft crashed
- It's after the Losties arrived on the island becasue the plane is on the ground
- It's before Eko burned the Beechcraft

That's pretty much it for certain, right? At this point anyway. But that does give enough idea of the time to probably pin it down roughly. Not exactly, but roughly.

But we also know for certain that John's gonna meet up with Richard soon and Richard doesn't know him yet. So maybe something is figured out in that meeting.

We already know Richard travels in time. We've seen him in John's past at least twice. While it might be the case that Richard travels in time (and such could certianly explain his apparent lack of aging!) I am not convinced it is definitively the case. Certainly it is completely possible for Richard to be in "John's past" without having to travel in time at all.

Events in Richard's Linear timeline:
Richard meets (a time-jumping) Locke on the Island, who explains that he knows him in the future, gives him a compass, and tells him a story (probably recounting exactly what Richard said to him at the beachcraft when he removed the bullet and gave Locke the compass).
Richard goes to seek out Locke's birth, and Locke as a boy, off the Island etc.
815 crashes.
Ethan tells Richard about shooting a man in the leg, who claimed to be called John Locke etc.. who disapeared..
Richard meets (a pre-time jumping) Locke on the Island with The Others.
Richard is with Locke after Keamy etc. attack, the sky glows, and Locke seemingly dissapears.

Events in Locke's Linear Timeline.
Locke is born.
Richard Alpert visits Locke as a boy.
815 crashes.
Locke meets Richard in the Island with The Others.
Locke is with Richard after Keamy etc. attack, the sky glows, and Richard seemingly dissapears.
Locke jumps backwards in time and gets shot by Ethan
Locke jumps forward in time and Richard comes to help him and gives him the compass.
Locke jumps backwards in time (to before Locke was born chonologically) and they have the encounter described in the first event in Richard's linear timeline. :biggrin:

Richard does not need to travel in time for any of the events to have happened, because Locke is jumping in time.

Richard knows where and when he needs to be to help Locke because Locke told him (in Richard's past). As for the exact time, I am faily sure Richard could figure this out, even if it means posting lookouts to watch the area - knowing it is sometime after the beachcraft falls off the cliff, but before it gets burned should be enough. :)

Richard is curious about the baby/boy Locke because of time-jumpy Locke's visist to him (in Richard's past). He doesn't need to travel in time to the past, because he has information about the future from time-jumpy Locke. :)

How does Richard know that Locke dissapeared after the sky glowed? Locke probably tells him (in Richard's past) so as to ensure that Richard says exactly the same things to him when the time comes. :)

I hope that makes sense.

Partyman, awesome job with the linear timelines. :clapping: It nice to see it written out like that, without actually having to do it. :biggrin:

However, I'm still not convinced Locke goes back to before he was born. :schmoll: I think it's easier for me to swallow all the time travelling than it is the fact that Richard Alpert doesn't ever age, lol.

I can totally see your argument. And it does make sense. So in your sense of things, Richard, the other Others, the Island Natives or whatever, they are stuck to island time, always, no matter what? Although they can travel off island, they do not time travel?

Partyman, awesome job with the linear timelines. :clapping: It nice to see it written out like that, without actually having to do it. :biggrin: Thanks. It maybe helps that I am totally addicted to Doctor Who, which does a great job of explaining timey wimey stuff in a simple way (because kids need to be able to understand it).

I am not however getting such clarity in trying to figure out the Island time-jumping vs Losties time-jumping, in context of Ben's plan to get back there. It is making my brain hurt more and more. But that's for a different thread, if indeed I even manage to make a breakthrough. :undecide:

However, I'm still not convinced Locke goes back to before he was born. :schmoll: I think it's easier for me to swallow all the time travelling than it is the fact that Richard Alpert doesn't ever age, lol. Surely Locke time-jumping (okay, or the island time-jumping around him - see what I mean? Hurts the brain!) to a time before he is born is no less likley/resaonable that the time-jumps we have already seen?

In fact for all we know, we might have already seen Locke on the Island before he was born - given that we have no idea what time (chronologically) he saved Sawyer and Juliet form those soldiers, that scene could have taken place way back in the past. I am no sure that it did (I have other thoughts on that) just saying that it could have. :)

I agree that time-travel is an easy way to explain Richard's perpetual youth. On the other other hand if we are believing that time travel is possible, then it's surely just as possible that he could be an Original Inhabitant who never ages. Or something.

I can totally see your argument. And it does make sense. So in your sense of things, Richard, the other Others, the Island Natives or whatever, they are stuck to island time, always, no matter what? Although they can travel off island, they do not time travel? I am assuming for now that when the sky went glowy the only thing that happened from the point-of-view of Richard and The Others was that Locke dissapeared. For them, time carries on normally in normal time - though I suspect at some point in the future they will see Locke again (once the record has stopped skipping). :)

In fact, Richard may well think "Aha! I guess this is when Locke started jumping around in time?" :cool:


At this point I believe it possible that there may have been no time travel at all (chronologically) until Ben pushed the Frozen Donkey Wheel at the end of S4.

Irrc, the only things we KNOW involve definite time travel of some kind:

*Ben appearing in Tunisia after the pushed the wheel - whether the Island moved into the future and he simply moved in space, or moved in both time and space, he ended up in the outside world at a point forward in time from when the Island dissapeared in form of Jack etc in the helicopter.

*The time-jumpy stuff in 5x01 and 5x02.

While there is certainly potential for Ben, Richard, Widmore, and who-knows-else to have been jumping all over in time, if we look for the simplest possible explanation from the puzzle-pieces we have so far, I think it is feasible everything else we have seen so far can (or will) be explained logically by the two instances above.

I may of course change my mind completely on this. That's what Lost does to our brains, eh?

Partyman: U forgot something from Richards Timeline,
he meets Ben as a young boy while he himself is dressed in 14th century clothing.

I know it doesn't have anything to do with Locke,
which is why u left it out,
but it IS relevant because judging from Richards Age two possibilities arise.

1: Richard does travel in Time at some point.

2: Richard does not age normally.


However none of this explains HOW on earth Richard knows exactly when Locke would need to be patched up.
So far only Locke knows about the event and its necessity,
he knows where it was,
he knows what needs to be done and said,
all this he could communicate to Richard,
but Locke has no Idea WHEN it was,
since Richard never told him.
He even asked.


-Exodus

Has anyone ever died of old age on the island? Doesn't it seem like everyone always gets killed? Maybe you stop aging on the island after you reach a certain age. If you're strong & smart enough to survive (Richard) you won't ever die. It's the only other thing I could think of as to why he never ages that isn't because he's a time traveller. He's always let others take charge, which would be a good way to avoid attention. Maybe he's been on the island since the Black Rock crashed back in the 19th century (or earlier). He could have been a crew member or something.

Just throwing it out there. It would explain why Widmore is so interested in having the island (so would a lot of other things, of course). The one thing he can't do is live forever. Money & power can't give you that.

Has anyone ever died of old age on the island? Doesn't it seem like everyone always gets killed? Maybe you stop aging on the island after you reach a certain age. If you're strong & smart enough to survive (Richard) you won't ever die. It's the only other thing I could think of as to why he never ages that isn't because he's a time traveller. He's always let others take charge, which would be a good way to avoid attention. Maybe he's been on the island since the Black Rock crashed back in the 19th century (or earlier). He could have been a crew member or something.

Just throwing it out there. It would explain why Widmore is so interested in having the island (so would a lot of other things, of course). The one thing he can't do is live forever. Money & power can't give you that.'

Well that is a good point thou it strikes me that Ben is sort of past his prime.

He has been on the Island since he was young,
and now he is in his 50ies,
while Richard is still a strapping 30 something,
kinda unfair.


-Exodus

'

Well that is a good point thou it strikes me that Ben is sort of past his prime.

He has been on the Island since he was young,
and now he is in his 50ies,
while Richard is still a strapping 30 something,
kinda unfair.


-Exodus

Hmmm, I don't think Ben is in his 50's. When he & his father came to the island it was the early 70's and I'm guessing he was 10-12 years old. So he would be low 40's which is hardly over the hill (You're welcome, old timers :biggrin:).

Hmmm, I don't think Ben is in his 50's. When he & his father came to the island it was the early 70's and I'm guessing he was 10-12 years old. So he would be low 40's which is hardly over the hill (You're welcome, old timers :biggrin:).

Perhaps.
The actor Michael Emerson was born in 1954 thou.

-Exodus

Perhaps.
The actor Michael Emerson was born in 1954 thou.

-Exodus

Yeah and Luke Perry was 20-something when he was playing a 16 year-old on the original 90210. :D

Partyman: U forgot something from Richards Timeline,
he meets Ben as a young boy while he himself is dressed in 14th century clothing.

I know it doesn't have anything to do with Locke,
which is why u left it out,
but it IS relevant because judging from Richards Age two possibilities arise.

1: Richard does travel in Time at some point.

2: Richard does not age normally. Given that we know The Others like to *dress up* in clothing that differs from their usual attire/time priod, I am not so sure that Richard's warddrobe is relevant in this case.

I'm not offering an explanation for Richard's lack of aging, just discussing how the new evidence we have from 5x01 and 5x02 show that imho Richard does not need to have time-travelled at any point in his linear history.

Of your two possibilities, for the time being I will choose #2.

Anyways, Richards apparent perpetual youth is probably best left for whole othe topic in itself. This thread is about how Richard knew what he knew when he helped Locke, and I believe it's because Locke told him. :)


However none of this explains HOW on earth Richard knows exactly when Locke would need to be patched up.
So far only Locke knows about the event and its necessity,
he knows where it was,
he knows what needs to be done and said,
all this he could communicate to Richard,
but Locke has no Idea WHEN it was,
since Richard never told him.
He even asked. I think it would be perfectly simple for Locke to have given Richard enough information in the past in order for Richard to make sure he is there at the right time.

Even just based of this one scene, Locke knows it is a) after the beachcraft fell from the cliff, and b) before it was burned.

Given that the time between a and b is only around 10 days, I think it would be farily easy for Richard to make sure he is there. Also (and this might make your head hurt), once Locke gives Richard the compass and explains how Richard will remove a bullet from his leg and give him the compass, then Richard has to do be there, or else the past will be changed and Locke will never have visited him. :)

Has anyone ever died of old age on the island? Doesn't it seem like everyone always gets killed? Maybe you stop aging on the island after you reach a certain age. If you're strong & smart enough to survive (Richard) you won't ever die. It's the only other thing I could think of as to why he never ages that isn't because he's a time traveller. He's always let others take charge, which would be a good way to avoid attention. Maybe he's been on the island since the Black Rock crashed back in the 19th century (or earlier). He could have been a crew member or something.

Just throwing it out there. It would explain why Widmore is so interested in having the island (so would a lot of other things, of course). The one thing he can't do is live forever. Money & power can't give you that. This could be entirely possible. It could also be a selective process, such as Rose and Locke being healed, but Ben's spinal issue being allowed to progress.:undecide:

Yeah and Luke Perry was 20-something when he was playing a 16 year-old on the original 90210. :D

Yes but my point was, this is a man who has looked better.

Now maybe he got a raw deal,
but people like Tom and Mikhail and some of the women in the others camps
where all somewhat passed their prime.
Ofcourse there is no indication that a person will stay YOUNG forever,
maybe only at a certain random age, who knows.

Somehow thou i doubt it,
I think Richards story is abit more complex.


-Exodus
100%

Given that the time between a and b is only around 10 days, I think it would be farily easy for Richard to make sure he is there. Also (and this might make your head hurt), once Locke gives Richard the compass and explains how Richard will remove a bullet from his leg and give him the compass, then Richard has to do be there, or else the past will be changed and Locke will never have visited him. :)


That last one is a good point, only Locke would go for that by osmosis interpretation, he is a man of faith after all.

-Exodus

Yes but my point was, this is a man who has looked better.

Now maybe he got a raw deal,
but people like Tom and Mikhail and some of the women in the others camps
where all somewhat passed their prime.
Ofcourse there is no indication that a person will stay YOUNG forever,
maybe only at a certain random age, who knows.

Somehow thou i doubt it,
I think Richards story is abit more complex.


-Exodus
100%


That last one is a good point, only Locke would go for that by osmosis interpretation, he is a man of faith after all.

-Exodus

I don't necessarily believe the idea myself, but I was just throwing it out there. I was trying to think of someone who could have possibly died of old age on the island and I couldn't think of anyone. People always seem to be killed.

I had to laugh when I saw Richard wearing, what appeared to be, reading glasses. A sign of Richard aging?

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1455-414.html

Partyman- awesome explanation of the timey-wimey goodness, nice split time-lines, good show, old man. Pip pip, cheerio and all that. No, I'm not Brittish, just delerious.

However none of this explains HOW on earth Richard knows exactly when Locke would need to be patched up.
So far only Locke knows about the event and its necessity,
he knows where it was,
he knows what needs to be done and said,
all this he could communicate to Richard,
but Locke has no Idea WHEN it was,
since Richard never told him.
He even asked.


-Exodus His answer was it's all relative.
Some folks are saying that the person holding the torch before Richard comes around the corner is actually someone else, who remains hidden.
What if this scene is actually so far in the future that Locke has already come back and that the other hidden person was the newly revived, Island reincarnated Locke and he has Jacob-like powers to be able to find his earlier self, and...
as we learned in the Orchid outtakes; you don't let two of the same beings from different times touch. Future Island Ruler Locke lead Richard there. But stays back to a keep present wounded Locke from really freaking out, as well as to prevent space/time from going full on splodey mess.

Just a thought.

The guy coming and holding the fire (take the screeencap through the hole that Lock saw) and the guy seemed to Lock which is Richard are totally different. First guy has something on his left arm but Richard does not. The first guy wear different clothes. But suddenly the first guy transformed in to Richard.

So confused

OK, rewatched last night. Totally on board with Locke blipping back to the before he was born on the island. Don't know why I was being so stubborn, lol. :rolleyes:

When Locke was looking out through the hole in the the leaves it was DEFINITELY not Richard coming by at first. That guy had a red shirt, Richard's was blue; there are other differences as well. Watch it in super slo-mo. It's not Richard. And he had dark hair, so it's not Locke, either.

I put out the timeline for what we do know for certain in a previous post:

- It's after the Beechcraft crashed
- It's after the Losties arrived on the island becasue the plane is on the ground
- It's before Eko burned the Beechcraft

Partyman reiterated those facts in his post. That gives a window of about a week and a half or so. It's not unlikely for Richard to be there at that time.

I have to ask.....

Richard told Locke that the O6 arrived safely off the island. How did he know that? I'm sure there's a logical explanation.... I just can't come up with one.

I have to ask.....

Richard told Locke that the O6 arrived safely off the island. How did he know that? I'm sure there's a logical explanation.... I just can't come up with one.This has been bugging me too!

I have to ask.....

Richard told Locke that the O6 arrived safely off the island. How did he know that? I'm sure there's a logical explanation.... I just can't come up with one.
I can more easily explain how Richard knew to be at the beechcraft crash site with the first aid kit, Locke journeys to the past and meets Richard at a point before Richard met him and Locke told Richard about the eventual meeting in 2004 at the plane. As to how Richard knew that O6 got home safely. My guess is that if Richard isn't time traveling he met another time traveller possibly from some future point that told him the O6 got home safely. But this meeting with the O6 messenger took place before the beechcraft 2004 Locke scene because there is no way he could have gotten that information in Jan 2005 when the donkey wheel was turned.

Anyone else notice that the timeframe where Locke gets shot, and the timeframe that Locke goes to right after Richard fixes his leg up are the same two times? In both instances the sun is in the same position and the Beechcraft's right engine is still smoking (first time seeing it I thought it was the smoke monster!)

Okay, rewatched it ... have more to say, heheh

I don't believe Richard or anyone knows the time skipping "schedule." If it is as Faraday said, like a record skipping, then it's just random when the island hops and to which time it hops.

So how does Richard know that the next time John sees him after giving him the compass it will be a time before Richard knew who he was? Simple, when John meets Richard in the past and shows him the compass, he tells him everything that has happened to him. So past Richard will know that Locke just jumped from the future and had just spoken to his future self. Thus, the Richard in the future who removed John's bullet who has all of his memories of his past, including meeting John for the first time, knows where John is skipping to next.

While it's sort of wordy to write out, if you only think of these timelines linearly, it's not that difficult to figure out.

Having it fresh in my brain, what Richard is saying seems to me that Richard has seen John recently and didn't recognize him. Not didn't know him. (Someone pointed out recognizing John as the key word, here.) Richard is recalling the last time HE saw John (which is the next time John sees him), right? So that could mean something happens to John's outward appearance (however that may look) so that when, in his time jumping, he sees Richard again, Richard simply doesn't recognize him and Locke gives him the compass and tells him to bring first aid to the plane.


Partyman- awesome explanation of the timey-wimey goodness, nice split time-lines, good show, old man. Pip pip, cheerio and all that. No, I'm not Brittish, just delerious.
His answer was it's all relative.
Some folks are saying that the person holding the torch before Richard comes around the corner is actually someone else, who remains hidden.
What if this scene is actually so far in the future that Locke has already come back and that the other hidden person was the newly revived, Island reincarnated Locke and he has Jacob-like powers to be able to find his earlier self, and...
as we learned in the Orchid outtakes; you don't let two of the same beings from different times touch. Future Island Ruler Locke lead Richard there. But stays back to a keep present wounded Locke from really freaking out, as well as to prevent space/time from going full on splodey mess.

Just a thought.


Stooooooooooop, my brain is hurting!!!

When Locke was looking out through the hole in the the leaves it was DEFINITELY not Richard coming by at first. That guy had a red shirt, Richard's was blue; there are other differences as well. Watch it in super slo-mo. It's not Richard. And he had dark hair, so it's not Locke, either.


I dunno bout that ;) ... I think the torchlight is just making Richard's shirt look various shades depending on the angle of the camera ... because at one point in that brief scene his shirt looks green ... maybe it's a dirty, blue/green shirt, lmao ...

Anyone else notice that the timeframe where Locke gets shot, and the timeframe that Locke goes to right after Richard fixes his leg up are the same two times? In both instances the sun is in the same position and the Beechcraft's right engine is still smoking (first time seeing it I thought it was the smoke monster!)

I did notice that ... v interesting, IMO ...

So to repeat myself, maybe we're not talking about the next time John sees Richard being the first time they have met but rather that John is unrecognizable ... ?

Richard said that John told him. What John exactly said, we will have to wait for in future episodes. Remember that Richard also knows that he doesn't have much time. Only way he could know that is if John Told him.

As to why Richard wouldn't recognize John even though he had tested him as a child is that people look a lot different when they are older than when they are kids. If the next time Richard sees Locke is prior to 815's Crash he would have no reason to recognize John.

Also, I don't have TiVo or other means of recording but I thought Richard said, I might not recognize you the next time I see you which is different than I won't recognize you.

Richard was already on the Island when Dharma arrived, he was part of the Natives. Just as women can't have babies on the Island it is entirely possible that those born on the Island prior to Dharma age differently.

Also Don't forget about Jack finding Adam and Eve in the cave. They were older. I can't remember if they had died naturally or were killed. But they did have enough of a significance to be layed to rest in the cave instead of buried.

Just a few thoughts.

Does anyone know the approx dates for the jumps?

If it was me i would do the following

Back 4 years = 2001
Forward 8 years = 2009
Back 15 years = 1994
Forward 16 years = 2010
Back 23 years = 1987
forward 42 years = 2029

The first jump could coincide with Desmond being on the island in the hatch, and the Nigerian plane and Ethan, as well as the beach camp disappearing.

Second jump 2009, the hatch is still a crater, john meets Richard and gets the compass.


However... after this part my idea is debunked :) because Faraday meets Desmond

The spoiler about Aaron and Ji Yeon in 202X would fit in with the last date, maybe we will see them in this way


1987, a possible date for the lefties to be in Dharma, although nothing early enough to suit the soldiers.
Or from 2005

Forward 4 years = 2009
Back 8 years = 2001
Forward 15 years = 2016
Back 16 years = 2000
Forward 23 years = 2023
Back 42 years = 1981

Problem with this is the Beach Camp though, unless it was taken apart before 2009, then it fits. Also why the hatch is still gone
Back to 2001, Desmond and the hatch, the Nigerian plane.

I don't see where the soilders fit in though.

Still possibilities for Ji and Aaron and Losties in Dharma

Brilliant explanation, Partyman - simple and logical. I'd just add, following KatieFord, that Richard said he didn't recognise Locke, not that he hadn't met him.

Richard's knowledge of the 06 being home and living their lives should be taken together with the clue from Desmond's dream to show us that the island skipped ahead three years. Daniel talked to Desmond less than 2 hours (by Daniel's clock) after the FDW, and Des experienced the memory three years after he left the island. The fact that Penny clearly says that, and the fact that Richard can confidently reassure Locke are intended to let us work out the time skip. (IMHO, OC)

I'm scared for Locke. Perhaps he will meet Richard, show him the compass. Richard then visits a young Locke (Cabin Fever) where Locke chooses the Knife. Richard returns to the island and doesn't continue whatever he intended because young Locke chose the wrong thing

When Richard gives Locke the compass he tells him to show it to him the next time the see each other because he will not recognize him.

This is interesting because it implies that Richard KNOWS that then next time they meet will be in the past before Richard has ever known of Locke. How could Richard know this? How does he know for instance that the next time they see each other won't be after the island skips into the future after the plane crash when he know full well who Locke is?

It is like Richard knows the Island Time Skip Schedule.

I too found this a rather interesting point, maybe Richard has lived through the island being "moved" before & understands how this affects it's inhabitants etc in terms of how they get displaced & then possibly settle back into the island's timeline. It's also likely that in Richard's memory of the past he's met the adult 'current' Locke & not known who he is at all- after Ben moved the island he's now understood why that strange meeting happened & can now do something positive about it & potentially become a constant for the time-jumping Locke.

My next thought on from this might not need spoiler-fonting but it is a prediction of sorts so I'll play it safe-

Maybe locke needs to bring the O6 back to the island to act as Constants for the other 815 survivors etc, just like daniel needs contact with desmond & desmond needed contact with penny?

I KNEW IT!

Locke went back and talked to Richard in a time period before he was born. Brilliant!

Can I get a Gold Star? (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showpost.php?p=2065968&postcount=41)

I KNEW IT!

Locke went back and talked to Richard in a time period before he was born. Brilliant!

Can I get a Gold Star? (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showpost.php?p=2065968&postcount=41)
:bowdown:

You were right! :biggrin:

:bowdown:

You were right! :biggrin: I know! I was punching the air and shouting out after that scene. :)

I know! I was punching the air and shouting out after that scene. :)
:79::79::79:

^ for Partyman ;)

(I thought we had a dancing star somewhere but I couldn't find it :shrug:)

"The next time I see you, I won't know you"

"The NEXT time I see you" ... tells us that Richard only remembers encountering a time hopping Locke twice. THIS time, and the time in 1950ish. It's the only way he could have said that with certainty.

"I won't know you" ... tells us that the next time they meet will be their first meeting in a chronologically linear definition of first. So if Locke hops back before this meeting, he either does not bump into Richard, or Richard is not on the Island at that time.

"The next time I see you, I won't know you"

"The NEXT time I see you" ... tells us that Richard only remembers encountering a time hopping Locke twice. THIS time, and the time in 1950ish. It's the only way he could have said that with certainty.

"I won't know you" ... tells us that the next time they meet will be their first meeting in a chronologically linear definition of first. So if Locke hops back before this meeting, he either does not bump into Richard, or Richard is not on the Island at that time.Not necessarily. He could meet a time hopping Locke again. But in present time or if in the past, after he had originnaly met Locke on the island. The NEXT time was the 50's. But there could be a time after. After all, after meeting Locke in the 50's now he DOES know him.

I don't remember if Locke told Alpert anything in that 1950s encounter that let him know that their first aid/compass exchange meeting immediately preceeded the 1950s one or not. That would be the only other way Alpert could have known that it would have been their NEXT encounter.

But I am certain that Locke won't meet Alpert in a time before the 1950s encounter, unless Locke is hiding his identiy from Alpert for some reason. If it happened, it always happened.

But...but..what about Dez's "memory"/dream?

Dez is special

I know, Alpert is special too.

But, I also think that Dez is unique.