I mean, besides the fact that he's a d*ck. ;)

She hasn't really ever dealt with him, has she? I mean, she saw him from a distance when they were dragging him around the jungle at the end of S3 and beginning of S4, I'm guessing. But she has no way of knowing that Ben killing Keamy is the reason Jin "blew up" (still not convinced he's dead) on the freighter. Only John knows that. Right?

When she told Widmore at the end of S4 that "we aren't the only ones who left the island," I thought she was referencing Desmond.

Or am I totally missing something? Someone help me out!

she knows that he's behind everything. he is the only one that they can blame anything on. they've never met widmore. widmore hasn't been on the island. ben is evil and has caused a lot of problems for everyone. it is easy to try to pinpoint one person or thing to blame when you are grieving.

also, how do we know she's not lying? she's trying to get in cahoots with widmore and maybe she's planning to eliminate him as well.

let's hope she doesn't change too much. jin won't like this side of his wife!

Thanks, Max, that makes sense.

I'm also wondering if "Jeremy Bentham" said something to her when he visited her. Although I don't know why he would, as it seems like he and Ben are on the same page now.

If she does get to try to kill Ben, she should use a Hot Pocket. :biggrin:

If she does get to try to kill Ben, she should use a Hot Pocket. :biggrin:

funny!:23wtp28_jpg: it couldn't happen to a better person. did you see ben's reaction?

Sun must be aware that it was Widmore who brought Keamy to the island, so it's really him who she has to blame for Jin's death. I think she told Widmore she wants to kill Ben just to gain his trust, then she'll work to either kill him or at least foil his plans later.

This is a great transformation of an innocent character into a sophisticated player. I'm really into what's happening with her now.

Or maybe she does trust him, and do want to kill Ben? Bentham (Locke) visited everyone (even Walt), exept for Ben (but I'm certain that he did, but Ben is lying), so maybe he did tell her something?

I thought Sun wanted to kill Ben simply because she holds him responsible for Ben's death.

I just find it odd that Sun blames Ben for Jin's apparent death but not Widmore for sending the mercenaries who loaded the C-4 onto the freighter and were sent to kill them all. I just think from that airport scene and Widmore's I will be Respected line (which by the way was delivered with great and subtle menace by Alan Dale) that Sun isn't aware of what kind of man she's getting involved with. I think Widmore wouldn't hesitate to kill Sun if it suited his purpose. And unless Sun got information that we haven't seen yet I didn't think that Widmore wanted to kill Ben he sent Keamy and his merry band of men to extract Ben alive. I have no doubt that Ben has some information that Widmore needs to retake the island and after that he would kill Ben.

People had me convinced that Sun was out to get revenge against Jack as one of the two that she holds responsible, and I was thinking that Sun has become misdirectedly dangerous... but now I don't think so. I'm going back to believing what I originally believed, at least in part, and that is that she's playing Widmore. Widmore is her first target. But now I also no longer believe that her father is the other person. I think she held rage inside her for a long time against her father, and she simply pointed the finger of blame at him as a release of that anger, in addition to taking controling interest in his company. No, I think that the other person that she may be after is Ben, and she's using Widmore to get to Ben, while at the same time setting Widmore up for a potential fall. We'll just have to wait and see if she has the power to pull it off.

People had me convinced that Sun was out to get revenge against Jack as one of the two that she holds responsible, and I was thinking that Sun has become misdirectedly dangerous... but now I don't think so. I'm going back to believing what I originally believed, at least in part, and that is that she's playing Widmore. Widmore is her first target. But now I also no longer believe that her father is the other person. I think she held rage inside her for a long time against her father, and she simply pointed the finger of blame at him as a release of that anger, in addition to taking controling interest in his company. No, I think that the other person that she may be after is Ben, and she's using Widmore to get to Ben, while at the same time setting Widmore up for a potential fall. We'll just have to wait and see if she has the power to pull it off.
I personally think Sun has misdirected her rage and grief to Ben.But I could be wrong. Ben does bare some responsibility but then so does Widmore. Whether Sun is on a revenge trip against Ben or if this is an elaborate ruse to get revenge on Widmore, either way I don't think she is fully aware of how dangerous Widmore truly is.

I personally think Sun has misdirected her rage and grief to Ben.But I could be wrong. Ben does bare some responsibility but then so does Widmore. Whether Sun is on a revenge trip against Ben or if this is an elaborate ruse to get revenge on Widmore, either way I don't think she is fully aware of how dangerous Widmore truly is.

Oh, she may be aware or at least have a good idea, but I don't think she really cares. She's got her plans of what she intends to accomplish and that's what she's focused on. And as for Ben, I get the feeling that you still hope that he turns out to be a good guy. I had a tiny bit of that hope, but that's now gone. I trust Sayid... he dealt with Ben for apparently 2 years, and in the end he tells Hurley... "if you ever come into contact with him, do exactly the opposite of what he says."

Oh, she may be aware or at least have a good idea, but I don't think she really cares. She's got her plans of what she intends to accomplish and that's what she's focused on. And as for Ben, I get the feeling that you still hope that he turns out to be a good guy. I had a tiny bit of that hope, but that's now gone. I trust Sayid... he dealt with Ben for apparently 2 years, and in the end he tells Hurley... "if you ever come into contact with him, do exactly the opposite of what he says."
I'm not hoping he's a good guy or a bad guy he's ambiguous at best. I was just trying to get to the larger point that what happened wasn't entirely any one person's fault. It involved poor decision making on many people's parts that day. You could argue that it was Ben's fault for many reasons. Just as you could argue that it was Jack's fault for continually believing that the freighter was there to rescue them in the face of evidence to the contrary. You could also argue that it is Jack and Locke's fault for not working out their differences and not listening to each other. But I digress I don't think anyone person is at fault, certainly if Widmore hadn't sent the freighter of people to kill them, none of them would have been on that freighter. Yes, I think Sun's grief has blinded her to how dangerous Widmore really is, she just wants to kill Ben. Ironically enough, Ben the person she wants to kill knows how grief driven revenge can lead to dire consequences.

I'm not hoping he's a good guy or a bad guy he's ambiguous at best. I was just trying to get to the larger point that what happened wasn't entirely any one person's fault. It involved poor decision making on many people's parts that day. You could argue that it was Ben's fault for many reasons. Just as you could argue that it was Jack's fault for continually believing that the freighter was there to rescue them in the face of evidence to the contrary. You could also argue that it is Jack and Locke's fault for not working out their differences and not listening to each other. But I digress I don't think anyone person is at fault, certainly if Widmore hadn't sent the freighter of people to kill them, none of them would have been on that freighter. Yes, I think Sun's grief has blinded her to how dangerous Widmore really is, she just wants to kill Ben. Ironically enough, Ben the person she wants to kill knows how grief driven revenge can lead to dire consequences.

I see where you're coming from, and you're right. If she's specifically wanting to get revenge for Jin's apparent death, then there's lots of blame to go around. And being driven by revenge isn't the best way to manage any situation. However, my thinking is that she views these two manipulating men as creating the circumstances that ultimately led to Jin's death, and with her new position of power, in combination with her goal of revenge, she could be danger to both of them as well as to herself and those around her.

If she does get to try to kill Ben, she should use a Hot Pocket. :biggrin:

Hahaha! :roflmao:



Seriously, though: I sympathize with Sun about Jin's (presumed) death, I really do. I mean, as far as she knows, a terrible thing happened to him, and that is very sad. But I think she is being extremely narrow-minded in pinning the blame on Ben. I hate him too, but there is no way she could've known it was his fault. In fact, as has been pointed out before, it wasn't entirely his fault. I would argue that Widmore is more at fault than Ben is, and that's exactly who she is allying herself with.

Regardless, though - These things happen. People die. Jin wasn't "murdered" in the typical sense of the word, so how can she assume anyone is to blame? I understand that Sun is upset, and wants revenge, but this is a little absurd. It pains me to say this because she used to be such a cool character, but I thought she was smarter than that.

I mean, besides the fact that he's a d*ck. ;)

She hasn't really ever dealt with him, has she? I mean, she saw him from a distance when they were dragging him around the jungle at the end of S3 and beginning of S4, I'm guessing. But she has no way of knowing that Ben killing Keamy is the reason Jin "blew up" (still not convinced he's dead) on the freighter. Only John knows that. Right?

When she told Widmore at the end of S4 that "we aren't the only ones who left the island," I thought she was referencing Desmond.

Or am I totally missing something? Someone help me out!


She doesn't. She was bluffing, and is playing Widmore.

She doesn't She's just using Ben to attract Widmore.
I think it was obvious by her conversation with Kate that she is the one Sun blames. That's what made that scene so wonderful.

You know, when you're going through an unbelievable amount of grief sometimes being "rational" is not the road one takes. Grief easily turns into anger and then revenge...that's the stage Sun is currently in.

I dont think she does.. Here is my Theory!!!

Ben is the one who wants Aaron's blood test. He knew the lawyer's request would send Kate running. Its awfully "coincidental" that Sun called Kate right after the lawyers show up and Sun is there to help.

I think Ben has convinced Sun that they can save Jin or Jin is alive if everyone goes back.

Sun talks about Kate "doing anything" to keep Aaron. 'Doing Anything" will eventually be going back to the island where no one can find them thus allowing Kate to keep Aaron.

The reason she is so open and agressive to Widmore is to draw him out for Ben and his group...

Just a WILD theory...