...at the hands of those guys with guns, right? Because that would change the future. Sawyer would never get on the 815 and crash, Juliet would never come to the island.

Unless their destiny was to go back in time and die, but still, how does that not change the future?

Anyone?

No, this is post crash/employment Sawyer/Juliette, they have already arrived on the island, thus Sawyer has already Crashed and Juliette has already been bought in too, when they go back in time on the island, say to 1994, it is not the 25 year old Sawyer on the island, it is still the 35 year old sawyer.

The 25 year old Sawyer is living his life off-island probably running a con.

...at the hands of those guys with guns, right? Because that would change the future. Sawyer would never get on the 815 and crash, Juliet would never come to the island.

Unless their destiny was to go back in time and die, but still, how does that not change the future?

Anyone?

You're mistaking how the time travel works. Sawyer is living his life continuously but has moved to a different time. This doesn't mean Flight 815 hasn't already happened in his personal timeline.

You're mistaking how the time travel works. Sawyer is living his life continuously but has moved to a different time. This doesn't mean Flight 815 hasn't already happened in his personal timeline.

Im leaning to a much simpler explanation / analogy: Groundhog Day.

The skips back and forth are just alternate versions of events...and then they are erased when the next 'jump' occurs.

Frogurt dies in the 'past', but he's alive and on 815 because that very vivid iteration of his demise was 'erased'. He's like Andie McDowell, doesnt remember a thing, day after repeated day.

Daniel is a sort of Bill Murray because he knows what is going on and can 'use' these alternate versions. He doesnt actually remember the events, but he knows they can happen and so leaves clues for himself, via Desmond, when they do.

This means to me that Juliet could have lost her arm, but when the next skip happens, it would be right back where it should be.

But Im not a sci-fi guy, so maybe Im way off.

Im leaning to a much simpler explanation / analogy: Groundhog Day.

The skips back and forth are just alternate versions of events...and then they are erased when the next 'jump' occurs.

Frogurt dies in the 'past', but he's alive and on 815 because that very vivid iteration of his demise was 'erased'. He's like Andie McDowell, doesnt remember a thing, day after repeated day.

Daniel is a sort of Bill Murray because he knows what is going on and can 'use' these alternate versions. He doesnt actually remember the events, but he knows they can happen and so leaves clues for himself, via Desmond, when they do.

This means to me that Juliet could have lost her arm, but when the next skip happens, it would be right back where it should be.

But Im not a sci-fi guy, so maybe Im way off.

Since Groundhog Day is my absolute favorite movie, I hate to refute this. But I think if you point to how Locke is shot and still travels with a wound, it is happening.

Because Daniel spoke to Desmond creating a memory, it is happening.

Time travel is a crazy concept and hard to wrap one's head around, but I think that what's important to remember is that if a 40-year old goes from, say, 2004 to 2001, they're not getting a do-over. They're not falling back to that age of 37. So Sawyer, if he continued in 2001, wouldn't be getting on Flight 815 again. He already did that.

Since Groundhog Day is my absolute favorite movie, I hate to refute this. But I think if you point to how Locke is shot and still travels with a wound, it is happening.

Because Daniel spoke to Desmond creating a memory, it is happening.

Time travel is a crazy concept and hard to wrap one's head around, but I think that what's important to remember is that if a 40-year old goes from, say, 2004 to 2001, they're not getting a do-over. They're not falling back to that age of 37. So Sawyer, if he continued in 2001, wouldn't be getting on Flight 815 again. He already did that.

Then you'd be changing the future. No Sawyer on 815? We already know that is false.

Locke's wound is a good point, but it's explanation will have to wait.:)

No, for me a take on Groundhog Day is what Im sticking to, for now. And that squares with Daniel's record player skipping analogy WAY better, at least to me.

The needle is at one place at any given time, not two. The 'event window' closes, I expect, when the 'needle' gets back to where it is supposed to be.

Cheers.

Then you'd be changing the future. No Sawyer on 815? We already know that is false.

Locke's wound is a good point, but it's explanation will have to wait.:)

No, for me a take on Groundhog Day is what Im sticking to, for now. And that squares with Daniel's record player skipping analogy WAY better, at least to me.

The needle is at one place at any given time, not two. The 'event window' closes, I expect, when the 'needle' gets back to where it is supposed to be.

Cheers.

I don't think you understand the concept of spacetime.

Look at all the space-time and general relativity videos you can find on youtube, hopefully that will change your understanding of spacetime to a model that fits in with real world theories, which is what the writers are basing their interpretation on.

No, this is post crash/employment Sawyer/Juliette, they have already arrived on the island, thus Sawyer has already Crashed and Juliette has already been bought in too, when they go back in time on the island, say to 1994, it is not the 25 year old Sawyer on the island, it is still the 35 year old sawyer.

The 25 year old Sawyer is living his life off-island probably running a con.

that makes sense, but what would have happened in this scenario? If Sawyer is say 35 years old and travels back to that moment with the guys about to cut off Juliets hand, what would have happened if they did cut her hand off. We are not sure, but those guys looked like workers from teh Dharma Initiative, and lets' assume they were members of the first Dharma society circa 1940-50... this is well before Sawyer or Juliet would be born so what happens if they cut her hand off... and what happens now that Locke killed them in that time travel moment? Because had they never traveled back in time those men would have not died at that moment, right?
100%
Im leaning to a much simpler explanation / analogy: Groundhog Day.

The skips back and forth are just alternate versions of events...and then they are erased when the next 'jump' occurs.

Frogurt dies in the 'past', but he's alive and on 815 because that very vivid iteration of his demise was 'erased'. He's like Andie McDowell, doesnt remember a thing, day after repeated day.

Daniel is a sort of Bill Murray because he knows what is going on and can 'use' these alternate versions. He doesnt actually remember the events, but he knows they can happen and so leaves clues for himself, via Desmond, when they do.

This means to me that Juliet could have lost her arm, but when the next skip happens, it would be right back where it should be.

But Im not a sci-fi guy, so maybe Im way off.

Kind of like Ashton Kutcher in the Butterfly Effect?

* - the losing her arm part made me think of that movie, lol

*Past* Sawyer and Juliet can't die, but their *present day* selves can die in the past. If you die at 35, that means you couldn't have died at age 20. But if you haven't died yet at 35, you can still die any time after that. If you go back to the past and die, your rotting corpse is not going to have any effect on your younger self.

So presumably then, some of them... a couple... goes way back in time, dies and is laid in the caves with the black and white rocks whose purpose we still don't know. Adam and Eve may very well be some of the losties that we've all come to know and love... we just don't know who yet...

*Past* Sawyer and Juliet can't die, but their *present day* selves can die in the past. If you die at 35, that means you couldn't have died at age 20. But if you haven't died yet at 35, you can still die any time after that. If you go back to the past and die, your rotting corpse is not going to have any effect on your younger self.

This is probably the best explanation for this. The Sawyer that is time-skipping can die because he already lived or didn't exist yet in the times he's been. I would think it works the same for the future. If, according to the Universe, Sawyer dies at 43 then he can travel to anytime in his lifetime and even past but he can't die until he is 43. It reminds me of the novel "The Time-Traveler's Wife".

Seriously, while reading these posts and thoughts about time travel and who can or can't live or die, my brain crashed into a brick wall! It is so hard to wrap my mind around this stuff well enough to comprehend it. (for me it is anyway). I do love the direction it's all going, but keeping up with it is going to be something else. I would absolutely LOVE to be in the room with the people who figure all of this stuff out.

Then you'd be changing the future. No Sawyer on 815? We already know that is false.

Locke's wound is a good point, but it's explanation will have to wait.:)

No, for me a take on Groundhog Day is what Im sticking to, for now. And that squares with Daniel's record player skipping analogy WAY better, at least to me.

The needle is at one place at any given time, not two. The 'event window' closes, I expect, when the 'needle' gets back to where it is supposed to be.

Cheers.

The Sawyer currently in the time-skipping island is "older" than the Sawyer who was on 815. Just because Sawyer travels back in time doesn't mean time is "rewound" like on a remote. In essence there are two Sawyers in that time. One who will get on 815 and one who has already been on 815.

It's the island that is moving and record-skipping, which is moving our Losties, and that is different than the conscious-shifting Desmond in The Constant and FBYE.