does anyone else think that... (and i'm putting this in spoiler font just to be safe... but it's just a guess)

that in the last scene, ben and ms hawking are in the temple, and that ben lied about not being able to get back to the island?

I think they are in oxford.

Can't be in Oxford. Ben can't get there as fast.

p.s. Ms Hawking is definitely Faraday's mom.

That makes no sense, b/c the temple is on the Island.

Well, I doubt that they are in the Temple because Ben can't go back to the Island until ALL of them go together.

But, wherever they are must be important.

Can't be in Oxford. Ben can't get there as fast.


We don't really know how much time passed, we assumed it was a little but maybe it was several hours. It was definately no where on the Island, why would she be telling him about getting back to the Island if he was already there?

Can't be in Oxford. Ben can't get there as fast.

p.s. Ms Hawking is definitely Faraday's mom.

OMG!!
I never even thought of that!!
I was zoning out in the end cuz this episode was horrible:]

Can't be in Oxford. Ben can't get there as fast.

p.s. Ms Hawking is definitely Faraday's mom.

That bothered me as well. If Ben has only 70 hours, he can't be wasting time flying across the Atlantic from Los Angeles to London and then to Oxford, just to confer with Mrs. Hawking. Unless he has some form of teleportation or mental travel, and we haven't seen that. But then, what was up with the Wardrobe (and passports and disguises) in his house in New Otherton?

The church was definitely legit and in the real world. Ben was pretending to light a candle and only let his guard down when he saw Hawking.

I thought it was sometime in the past because they had one of those old-*** computers in there...didn't they?

That bothered me as well. If Ben has only 70 hours, he can't be wasting time flying across the Atlantic from Los Angeles to London and then to Oxford, just to confer with Mrs. Hawking. Unless he has some form of teleportation or mental travel, and we haven't seen that. But then, what was up with the Wardrobe (and passports and disguises) in his house in New Otherton?

Right, but he only knew the 70 hours deadline AFTER he talked to Hawking. People are focusing on the 6 hour timeframe Ben gave Jack, but that was before the snafu with Hurley. That was a game changer.

That bothered me as well. If Ben has only 70 hours, he can't be wasting time flying across the Atlantic from Los Angeles to London and then to Oxford, just to confer with Mrs. Hawking.

In all fairness, the 70 hours begins when he talks to Ms. H. (edit: RR beat me to it).
Heathrow back to LAX is just over 11 hours, so it's doable.

Interestingly, Sun tells Kate she'll be in LA for 3 days, that works nicely with the 70 hour deadline.

i still think the church where hawkings was could have been an off-island dharma station used to locate the island.

I thought it was sometime in the past because they had one of those old-*** computers in there...didn't they?

I believe those computers were probably just instruments for the lab work that Ms Hawking was doing. If she started the work a while ago, she may still be using older equipment, rather than have to go out and buy newer, expensive equipment for her work, especially if it was being done in secret, which it clearly was, so that explains the older equipment in the lab.

I wonder what Ben plans to do about Sun, because we know she is willing to work with Widmore now, so what will happen between the 2 of them i think will be a major event in the season.

You can't really make a judgment call on the time just by computers. Trust me, there are a LOT of scientists that work with old computers because the budgets have to go toward the actual research. Plus, if the electrical system linking different instruments is complex, it might do more harm than good swapping in a new computer. I recently spent 5 hours in a laser lab with a nitrogen laser and the computer used to gather the input was extremely old. Well. . .okay, it had Windows 95, and it had a cd-rom drive, but it also had a floppy drive, and. . .well, trust me, it was old enough.

I thought it was sometime in the past because they had one of those old-*** computers in there...didn't they?

That group doesn't seem to like new computers or fancy devices as much as Widmore's people do. It seems like they always try to make use of technology that's already on the island, and in this case maybe they are taking advantage of pre-existing technology that has been around for a while in the states. I.E. It looked like Dharma had little cells of people all over (the butcher shop, the church), so it could be reasonable to assume there are old Dharma stations in the U.S. or all over the world. This one may just be in the bottom of a church. ::shrug::

In all fairness, the 70 hours begins when he talks to Ms. H. (edit: RR beat me to it).
Heathrow back to LAX is just over 11 hours, so it's doable.

Interestingly, Sun tells Kate she'll be in LA for 3 days, that works nicely with the 70 hour deadline.

I don't think it is doable for him to be in Oxford. It was nighttime in LA when Hurley turned himself in, with the 9 hour time difference Ben would've been telling Hawking that he lost Hurley yesterday, not tonight as he said in the episode.

You can't really make a judgment call on the time just by computers. Trust me, there are a LOT of scientists that work with old computers because the budgets have to go toward the actual research. Plus, if the electrical system linking different instruments is complex, it might do more harm than good swapping in a new computer. I recently spent 5 hours in a laser lab with a nitrogen laser and the computer used to gather the input was extremely old. Well. . .okay, it had Windows 95, and it had a cd-rom drive, but it also had a floppy drive, and. . .well, trust me, it was old enough.

If I may ask you something off topic, what were you researching? I myself am going to be joining the scientific community eventually, seeing as I am currently majoring in Physics for my undergraduate degree. Sorry to get off topic but I am very interested in this stuff, and was just curious.

i still think the church where hawkings was could have been an off-island dharma station used to locate the island.

this is what i think too. it sure looks like a dharma station, and it makes sense that they would have a way to locate the island. i also thought i saw dharma logos on some of the folders by the computer.

If I may ask you something off topic, what were you researching? I myself am going to be joining the scientific community eventually, seeing as I am currently majoring in Physics for my undergraduate degree. Sorry to get off topic but I am very interested in this stuff, and was just curious.

I, myself, am a junior undergraduate in Chemistry. I was being shown this nifty piece of instrumentation and we were using it to record the decay of fluorescence intensity with time after each laser pulse. We used ruthenium-iron solutions of various concentrations. It was pretty neat--before anything, we actually opened up the laser and looked at the setup of the beam splitters, reflectors, prisms, and how they rejoined the beams.

Yeah, that computer was really ancient.

I assumed they were in L.A. because there's no way Ben could have gotten to Oxford so fast.

It's possible that Daniel thinks his mom is in Oxford (and yes, I think Ms. Hawking is Daniel's mom). I mean, he's been away from civilization for awhile. Maybe she traveled to L.A. knowing she needed to work some stuff out with Ben.

I, with the 9 hour time difference Ben would've been telling Hawking that he lost Hurley yesterday, not tonight as he said in the episode.
Not necessarily, if you've travelled much overseas, you know what I mean.
That said, I don't think they're at Oxford, I think she's at a dharma station within a couple of hours of LA. There's another thread around here somewhere, where we're discussing it.

It could be that Desmond needs to go to Oxford to find out where to look for Daniel's mom (ie. Mrs. Hawking), and after he learns where she is he goes to LA. This way he can also reconnect with the O6 who are all currently there

Seems to me they were in a church in LA. Why waste time flying around the world to communicate when Ben could have simply called her on a cell phone? Perhaps Faraday's mother isn't Mrs. Hawking. That would almost be too simple for the creators to throw to us.

I believe that the first scene of the night and the final scene were "out of sequence" from the rest of the night. It will be up to the viewer to put the scenes together.

Sort of like the Jin/Sun episode from last season where TPTB tricked us into thinking both of them were in the same time. We are seeing bits and pieces of information from various points in the story.

The line in regards to having 70 hours could have nothing to do with the scene preceded it.

I believe that the first scene of the night and the final scene were "out of sequence" from the rest of the night. It will be up to the viewer to put the scenes together.

Sort of like the Jin/Sun episode from last season where TPTB tricked us into thinking both of them were in the same time. We are seeing bits and pieces of information from various points in the story.

The line in regards to having 70 hours could have nothing to do with the scene preceded it.

But Ben told Hawkins "I have just lost Reyes, tonight", so, this happened right after Hurley turned himself into the police. Unless Ben loses Hurley twice, which would be redundant.

I think it's clear that Ben has 70 hours from the moment he meets Hawking to get the O6 together and get them back to the island, before it jumps again.

I believe those computers were probably just instruments for the lab work that Ms Hawking was doing. If she started the work a while ago, she may still be using older equipment, rather than have to go out and buy newer, expensive equipment for her work, especially if it was being done in secret, which it clearly was, so that explains the older equipment in the lab.
.

You can't really make a judgment call on the time just by computers. Trust me, there are a LOT of scientists that work with old computers because the budgets have to go toward the actual research. Plus, if the electrical system linking different instruments is complex, it might do more harm than good swapping in a new computer. I recently spent 5 hours in a laser lab with a nitrogen laser and the computer used to gather the input was extremely old. Well. . .okay, it had Windows 95, and it had a cd-rom drive, but it also had a floppy drive, and. . .well, trust me, it was old enough.

Then again... "The Economist" also used a bulky out-of-date pager and we all know how Jacob feels about technology.

Just because the last place we saw our white-haired women was England does not mean that she is based in England. Brother Campbell had a picture of the two of them on his desk, but that doesn't mean that she was staying with Brother Campbell.

All all of this speculation about her being in Oxford is because everyone is jumping to the idea that she is the mom Dan mentions to Demonds to go seek. Dan's mom may be someone else entirely since Ben had lots of information about the Freighter Folk--his comments about Charlotte while trekking across the Island with Ben demonstrated that--and he would have known that Dan was the Silver Fox's son from that information. And if the Silver Fox and Ben are such buddies, Ben might have tapped into that family relationship while trying to deal with Keamy and Company.

I wouldn't assume Silver Fox and Dan are related

based on a spoiler that said there is a relationship aspect not yet revealed about Mrs. Hawkins. The spoiler did NOT specify what kind of relatinship existed and who or what the other party is.

i'm still convinced they were on-island in the temple. notice ben specifically says that everyone needs to "come" back to the island, rather than saying everyone needs to "go" back to the island. i don't think the writers would have made that big of a slip, unless they were trying to trick us, but i also don't think it was obvious enough to be a trick.

and as far as ms. hawkings being faraday's mom, i was thinking that too, but as i talked to more people today, i started thinking instead that she could be charlette's mom. she (hawking) definitely seems to be someone who has the ability to travel to the island, even if i'm incorrect in assuming she was there and the end of the ep. and charlotte mentioned staying on the island in order to find the place she was born. plus there's the obvious aspect that hawking and charlotte are both english whereas farady... not so much.

IMO it is an off island Dharma Station too!!! There was a Dharma Logo on the computer and Dharma notebooks beside the computer on the desk. The reason it look so ancient, is because Dharma has had no funding for quite some time. Plus it seems to me that it was hidden and secret, so without Hanso / Dharma money, they have no way to buy new things. However, if the computer is somehow linked to the island, it may be impossible to change it to a newer model.

We don't really know how much time passed, we assumed it was a little but maybe it was several hours. It was definately no where on the Island, why would she be telling him about getting back to the Island if he was already there?

They could be in the temple on the island if she was telling Ben he needs to bring everyone back 'in time' to the island.

aren't newer computers kind of trackable in most senses...old computers would be perfect for a secret agenda..no hackers etc

Ben's line to her "I just lost Reyes tonight" is a guarantee he's in or near L.A. If Ben had time travelled to London or the island, it wouldn't be "tonight".

It looks like a Catholic church or monastery to me...crucifix and candles. Probably monastery, since we've already seen one on the other side of the pond.

The labratory was walled in metal. My guess is that it's a permanent covert Dharma lab, and the shielding has something to do with the equipment in that's marking the map.

Seems she's the #1 physicist here. "Hawkings" should have tipped me off before.

I like the idea of her being Daniel's mother, but there's a problem there with the difference in last names.

There is no way that they could be in Oxford.
It is an 11 hour flight from LAX to HLR. You would have to take into account getting to to LAX and getting on the flight which would add at least 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Then going through customs and getting a car add another 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Then it is 50 miles to Oxford which would add at least 1 hour.
You are now up to at the least 15 hours and the time difference is 8 hours.
So if Hurly was arrested at 5:00 PM LA time, it would be 4:00 PM the next day in Oxford by the time you arrived.

It could be that Desmond needs to go to Oxford to find out where to look for Daniel's mom (ie. Mrs. Hawking), and after he learns where she is he goes to LA. This way he can also reconnect with the O6 who are all currently there

I agreee that this is likely and I read somewhere that Desmond has several missions next week and fails them, though brilliantly it seems, so it leads me to believe
she is Faraday's Mum. A family of 2 physicists named after other famous physicists

Though there is one thing Ben said ( as well as the total appearance of that church basement being that of a Dharma Station) that makes me think they somehow could've been on the Island,
BEN
"What if I can't get them all to come back."

MS. HAWKING
Then God help us all!


Shouldn't he have said go back? Hmm:rolleyes::confused:

Not convinced it means that, but at least entertaining the possibility.

My guess is in "The Temple" station on the island.

Others feel it is elsewhere.

I'm thinking of Ms. Hawking as this kind of freaky time travelling 'I can go where I like, when I like" kind of person, so I'm guessing her lab is in LA, so she can quickly get to Ben when he needs her, it's easier for her to go to him, than him to her.

Well... mabye :undecide:

I'm also liking the Faraday's mother theory... Argh. Confusing!

I didn't think Hawking's lab was in L.A. I thought given that she has an understanding of space time she has the capacity to teleport to the church in L.A. where Ben was.

I'm 100% sure they were meeting in LA. Just my opinion, though, subject to error.

Here's a question - why would Hawking use an old 1980s vintage green-screen computer, if she was in LA? Or Oxford?

There is a flaw with it being on the Island, Why would Ben want to go back if he was already able to get there. I don't know where it is, I like LA, but I also like Oxford, so many ideas so little time.:biggrin:

So you know I didn't vote, because I really don't have a real opinion as to where she is, she could be anywhere, due to the whole timing issue Ben saying he Lost Hurley tonight makes me lean toward it being in LA, but I just can't shake that she is at Oxford, it has to do with my thinking that she is Faraday's mom.

Here's a question - why would Hawking use an old 1980s vintage green-screen computer, if she was in LA? Or Oxford?

Because it does the job?:)

The one clue for them being on the island was Ben's "so what happens if I can't get them to all COME back", as opposed to "GO back", but that's a minor thing IMO. Also, "temple" is not generally a term used for a Christian house of worship, while the crucifix made it plain they were in such a place.

I say LA.

Because it does the job?:)

The one clue for them being on the island was Ben's "so what happens if I can't get them to all COME back", as opposed to "GO back", but that's a minor thing IMO. Also, "temple" is not generally a term used for a Christian house of worship, while the crucifix made it plain they were in such a place.

I say LA.

Yeah, I caught that "come back", too. Also, if you watch closely when Hawking comes out of that inner room the door she closed is a station/hatch looking door.

I think Ben has been coming and going from the island at will whenever he likes. The secret room in his house probably has a tunnel to the Orchid and that chamber he blew up, the one he put all the metal into. That was probably what they used to TT. Now it's gone but there could be another one, maybe at the Temple.

Yes, it was an old-fashioned computer — kind of like in the hatch?

Okay, so initially I voted that Ben was meeting Ms. Hawking in LA. I reported that I was 100% certain of this.

Well...

I went back and rewatched that scene very carefully:

YouTube: Lost: Season 5: Episode 2: The Lie: Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40t252ZpzSs)

...and I have come to the conclusion that I was mistaken at first. The background of the scene - with the obvious monastic appearance - really leads one to the conclusion that they are meeting in England somewhere. I'm not sure if it's in Oxford or not. But I'm changing my vote to Oxford, for lack of another alternative that would be "somewhere in England, precise location unknown". Also, although I'm really sure that Ms. Hawking is Daniel's mum, I don't think that has yet been totally confirmed yet. So that, too, makes me less than completely satisfied about giving my vote to the second choice in the list of alternatives provided by the poll.

Ben and Hawking are in Los Angeles.

I do think Hawking is Faraday's mother, but Dan beliving his mother is currently at Oxford doesn't make it true. I think she intended to wait at the university, but did some calculations and realized she needed to be in Los Angeles to help Ben out with the O6.

That creepy old building looked a lot like Desmond's church in Europe, but, well, a lot of churches look alike. Maybe there is an American branch of the order where Hawking could set up shop.

I'm thinking that the others have some way to teleport. Maybe from one dharma station to another? When Tom visited Michael in New York the timeline with travel just didn't seem to make sense in terms of when it supposedly happened. We were watching on island and I can't figure out when a trip by sub might have been plausible.

I'm thinking that the others have some way to teleport. Maybe from one dharma station to another? When Tom visited Michael in New York the timeline with travel just didn't seem to make sense in terms of when it supposedly happened. We were watching on island and I can't figure out when a trip by sub might have been plausible.

This is what I'm beginning to believe. Someone on another thread mentioned the fact that Ms Hawking was in a basement and there aren't many buildings in the LA area with basements because of earthquake problems. If they can teleport, the station could either be in Portland, OR (closer to LA) or Oxford, England. I think he has to get them to come back to the station where Ms Hawking is.

Maybe that lab moves - not of Dharma's accord, or Hawking's accord, but of the island's accord. Therefore, my vote is that the location of the lab is "where and when it needs to be" - and it has been on the island at least once, but is no longer now. I suppose more mundanely my suggestion would be that it's currently in LA, given the time differentials involved. I also suspect that dues to various pressures of time paradoxes, people don't necessarily find reasons to go down into that room unless they're supposed to be there.

Can't be in Oxford. Ben can't get there as fast.

p.s. Ms Hawking is definitely Faraday's mom.

No, I don't believe that for a moment! Of course, I could be proven wrong, but IMO the hint of that being the case is one big juicy red herring!

With the actions of both Hawking and Faraday, I don't see any way that she can be his mother. And since the writers left us with such an obvious clue that she could be his mother, then why not just have Daniel come right out and say it before cutting him off with a time jump?
100%
By the way, it's an excellent question that this thread asks. I've wondered about that myself, since the previous time we saw Ms Hawking was with Desmond somewhere in the UK.

I answered, LA, because with Ben coming from Hurley's parents' place and with him also meeting that Jill charater there, i addition to being there with Jack, it just seems to be the most logical place that he then also went to see Hawking.

However, with TT portals that could be located in various places, who knows where Ben could possibly have travel to. One thing though, I highly doubt that he and Ms Hawking were anywhere on the Islands, the Temple or wherever, but then again, with Lost, who knows.

There's a lot of folks insistant the Ben couldn't get anywhere but in or near LA to relate Hurley's arrest to Hawking.

1. Didn't we see Ben transport to Tunisia?

2. Did not Tom travel back to NYC to interact with Michael WITHOUT the use of the submarine?(Locke had blown it up by then)

3. Do we not know Ben is the consumate liar? Who says he can't go back the island anytime he wants? Because Ben told Locke? Ben loves to lie to Locke.

4. Does not Ben ask Hawking about getting the 06 to COME back to the island?

5. Is there not a "Temple" referred to on the island?

6. Why would Hawking use a 1980s green-screen computer if she was anywhere off-island AND had all the resources that Ben Linus has at his disposal. Ben has a worldwide organization, standing reservations in Tunisia regardless of what month or year he shows up, can travel extensively seemingly without budgetary concerns.

But his chief physicist is using equipment 25-30 years old.

People, people........see the big picture.