I don't remember seeing the camera when Ben woke up in the desert after leaving the island. I assume Widmore has had it set up ever since Widmore left the island, right? Is that how the arabs on horseback knew to show up and attempt to kill Ben? Did they just not show us the camera that time?

Not sure, but we know that Widmore would know where since he popped up there one day. Maybe he didn't set up the camera until after he knew Ben turned up off-island. Not sure either way though.

It seemed like Locke had to wait a much longer time to attract company than Ben did.

I figured that Widmore knew the location, but had no reason to monitor it until Ben showed up in his bedroom.

Yeah, not to mention Ben dealt a very serious butt-whooping to his would-be attackers. It seems if they were Widmore's agents, he has certainly improved his operation by now (with the car, and possibly the camera focused on a specific place rather than horsemen patrolling a specific area of desert).

This brings up the question of the polar bear - it probably arrived through the same portal, right? Perhaps it wandered a bit before it died.. but that would still place Charlotte's dig in close proximity to the spot, wouldn't it?

Yeah, not to mention Ben dealt a very serious butt-whooping to his would-be attackers. It seems if they were Widmore's agents, he has certainly improved his operation by now (with the car, and possibly the camera focused on a specific place rather than horsemen patrolling a specific area of desert).

This brings up the question of the polar bear - it probably arrived through the same portal, right? Perhaps it wandered a bit before it died.. but that would still place Charlotte's dig in close proximity to the spot, wouldn't it?


More importantly why and how would a polar bear turn the wheel?:confused:

They put the polar bears in a harness and forced them to move the wheel via cattle prod...or old school wiping

I figured that Widmore knew the location, but had no reason to monitor it until Ben showed up in his bedroom.

That's my thinking too.

As for the polar bear, I'm still wondering how a polar bear turned that wheel. I hope we get an answer to that.:shrug:

Im watching a tv show that leads me to thinking about polar bears turning wheels and teleporting to Tunisia .... and somehow,,, it all seems normal,,, I love Lost

I think at one time this "portal" was an open, exposed source at the back of a long cave tunnel, a bear wandered in, (as we've seen before), happened to get too close to it and got itself transported to Tunisia where it died from the desert heat. The fact that Charlotte found it a buried skeleton suggests this happened centuries ago, before the wheel was put it to control the portal.

Before the Orchid entrance and before the well, there must have been a natural tunnel leading to it that was later blocked off by someone who wanted to keep it secret. That tunnel might have been in the cave Locke went in once after a bear.

I believe the show gave us enough information for us to connect this one on our own. The Hydra station had bear cages and small reward tasks for food. Dharma would train the bears to turn the wheel. The bear that Charlotte finds has a Dharma Hydra logo on it's collar. It was waaaay in the past. We can assume Dharma was training the bears to experiment with time travel while not having to risk a human being transported via the FDW. The polar bears that roam free on the island were set loose after the purge.

My conclusion anyway.

I think at one time this "portal" was an open, exposed source at the back of a long cave tunnel, a bear wandered in, (as we've seen before), happened to get too close to it and got itself transported to Tunisia where it died from the desert heat. The fact that Charlotte found it a buried skeleton suggests this happened centuries ago, before the wheel was put it to control the portal.

Before the Orchid entrance and before the well, there must have been a natural tunnel leading to it that was later blocked off by someone who wanted to keep it secret. That tunnel might have been in the cave Locke went in once after a bear.

But the bear had a Hydra collar on it. It couldn't have happened centuries ago.

They put the polar bears in a harness and forced them to move the wheel via cattle prod...or old school wiping

You mean whipping not wiping. LOL :biggrin:
100%
But the bear had a Hydra collar on it. It couldn't have happened centuries ago.

After turning the FDW:
Locke was sent 3 years into the future.
Ben was sent 10 months into the future.
Polar Bear was sent XXX years into the past.
Widmore was sent ??

But the bear had a Hydra collar on it. It couldn't have happened centuries ago.

I forgot about that. You're right.

I forgot about that. You're right.

The skeleton didn't appear to be fossilized from what I remember. A dead body in the middle of the desert would get picked clean by hyenas, vultures, flies, etc. in a matter of days...it did appear to be buried a few feet deep, but a few years would probably take care of that.

I think the polar bear teleportation was a Dharma experiment. The DI built their device ( the one Ben blew up) near the FDW but didn't use that wheel in their experiments - remember Chang telling the workmen not to drill further after seeing the outline of the wheel on the (?)sonar map?
They started with bunnies and advanced to the bears...

Also, the polar bear probably did wander for at least a little while, because wasn't it hinted at gene manipulation made them better fit to survive in a warmer climate? This was still too warm of a climate, though, so it still died after some time, but it could have made it a certain distance from where it ended up

As for how it ended up in Tunisia, I would say that it was an experiment, probably an early one, to see what would happen to it. They might have sedated and then turned the wheel remotely...somehow:biggrin:

The site where Ben showed up was different than where Locke turned up. Ben showed up in the middle of some sand dunes, while Locke was in the middle of a road. The location of the camera makes me think that the exit isn't just a general area, but an exact spot.

I believe the show gave us enough information for us to connect this one on our own. The Hydra station had bear cages and small reward tasks for food. Dharma would train the bears to turn the wheel. The bear that Charlotte finds has a Dharma Hydra logo on it's collar. It was waaaay in the past. We can assume Dharma was training the bears to experiment with time travel while not having to risk a human being transported via the FDW. The polar bears that roam free on the island were set loose after the purge.

Not a lot of room there for a polar bear. Actually, the only ways to get to it were down a well (if that even existed in DHARMA days) and down a narrow passage down a ladder. So I'm inclined to think that DHARMA sent him from somewhere else. They could have stuffed him in "the vault" that was attached to the passage to the FDW. Or they could have sent him in some way we don't yet understand. Either way, I think mister polar bear ended up in the very distant past.

The site where Ben showed up was different than where Locke turned up. Ben showed up in the middle of some sand dunes, while Locke was in the middle of a road. The location of the camera makes me think that the exit isn't just a general area, but an exact spot.

I just checked both episodes. It's the same spot. The only difference is that by the time Locke shows up the trail has tire tracks and there are telephone poles installed going off over the mountains carrying a wire that leads to the camera watching the exit spot. The exit spot is exactly the same. They should probably keep a mattress and a little vomit bucket there. ;)

I agree that after Ben showed up in Widmore's bedroom, Widmore set all this up, somehow knowing that Locke would leave, so that he could be the first one to Locke.

But the bear had a Hydra collar on it. It couldn't have happened centuries ago.

'Why not? The Island is moving in time. When the bears move it, they could be 10,000 years in the past and end up in Tunisia God knows when.

I just checked both episodes. It's the same spot. The only difference is that by the time Locke shows up the trail has tire tracks and there are telephone poles installed going off over the mountains carrying a wire that leads to the camera watching the exit spot. The exit spot is exactly the same. They should probably keep a mattress and a little vomit bucket there. ;)

I agree that after Ben showed up in Widmore's bedroom, Widmore set all this up, somehow knowing that Locke would leave, so that he could be the first one to Locke.

Here's two places I have a different opinion. One, Ben could get off the island more ways than by using the FDW. ( I think it was) Miles had a photo of Ben at an Airport that proved Ben was off the island- a photo that Widmore came up with that showed he had to know Ben could get off the island before he showed up in his bedroom. We and Widmore knew the sub can move people off the island and Widmore had no idea that Locke had blown the sub. Widmore had no intel on the island that we know of until Keamy and the freighties got there. I am assuming as do other posters that there was a connection between Widmore and the DI pre purge so he knew they could use the sub to go to and fro.

Second point, if Desmond didn't have a memory of Faraday at the Hatch until it happened in real concurrent time (although they are in 2 different years), then Widmore didn't know about Locke until no sooner than 3 or 4 days from when Locke showed up in the desert. He would have had the memory from 1954, understood what it meant (maybe Richard told him Locke's claims later) and then set the cameras up. That's why he didn't watch the location when Ben showed up. Why would he, no reason to and he knew there were more ways than one for Ben to get off the island.

As to the Polar Bear, only add is that the DI did not fully understand the FDW because Jacob didn't speak to them he spoke to the Others, so why not experiment with Bears when you don't really know what you are dealing with. Maybe Widmore kept secrets from Hanso.

'Why not? The Island is moving in time. When the bears move it, they could be 10,000 years in the past and end up in Tunisia God knows when.

That doesn't change the fact it had a Dharma collar and therefore was from Dharma time, not 10,000 years before. To get the Dharma collar, it would have had to originally been present when Dharma was on the Island. I'm pretty sure polar bears aren't native to tropical Islands, and we know for a fact Dharma brought them to the Island. The bear is clearly a Dharma bear.

This is the post I responded too about the polar bear having the Dharma collar:

I think at one time this "portal" was an open, exposed source at the back of a long cave tunnel, a bear wandered in, (as we've seen before), happened to get too close to it and got itself transported to Tunisia where it died from the desert heat. The fact that Charlotte found it a buried skeleton suggests this happened centuries ago, before the wheel was put it to control the portal.

Before the Orchid entrance and before the well, there must have been a natural tunnel leading to it that was later blocked off by someone who wanted to keep it secret. That tunnel might have been in the cave Locke went in once after a bear.

I was only implying that the bear was from Dharma time because it had the Dharma collar. I took the above post to mean that the bear was from centuries before Dharma (because there original post theorizes this happened before the wheel, before the Orchid entrance, before a well) and that's why I replied as I did.

has anyone explained why DI would want POLAR bears on a tropical Island? maybe they got to the Island through one of these portals, and maybe they got to Tunisia the same way. some globe-trotting polar bears.

Here's two places I have a different opinion. One, Ben could get off the island more ways than by using the FDW. ( I think it was) Miles had a photo of Ben at an Airport that proved Ben was off the island- a photo that Widmore came up with that showed he had to know Ben could get off the island before he showed up in his bedroom. We and Widmore knew the sub can move people off the island and Widmore had no idea that Locke had blown the sub. Widmore had no intel on the island that we know of until Keamy and the freighties got there. I am assuming as do other posters that there was a connection between Widmore and the DI pre purge so he knew they could use the sub to go to and fro.

Second point, if Desmond didn't have a memory of Faraday at the Hatch until it happened in real concurrent time (although they are in 2 different years), then Widmore didn't know about Locke until no sooner than 3 or 4 days from when Locke showed up in the desert. He would have had the memory from 1954, understood what it meant (maybe Richard told him Locke's claims later) and then set the cameras up. That's why he didn't watch the location when Ben showed up. Why would he, no reason to and he knew there were more ways than one for Ben to get off the island.

As to the Polar Bear, only add is that the DI did not fully understand the FDW because Jacob didn't speak to them he spoke to the Others, so why not experiment with Bears when you don't really know what you are dealing with. Maybe Widmore kept secrets from Hanso.

This is a good point about the remembrance of Locke from the past; that Widmore could only have had that memory for 4ish days prior to Locke's arrival.

It seems that Widmore knew that Ben was off-island each time he was, but I think that's because people have been tailing Ben at Widmore's request. The camera was most likely at the exit because Widmore wanted to know the instant Locke arrived.

And another good point about the FDW (or FPBW). Dharma wouldn't have known or cared what happened to the bears.

has anyone explained why DI would want POLAR bears on a tropical Island?


I think it's self explanatory: Dharma brought the bears to the island specifically to turn the wheel.

Polar Bears are really smart, Alison Ames (Polar Bear researcher) says they are as smart as monkeys. In captivity they play elaborate games and smash ice blocks to gain access to fish inside.

We know it takes great force to turn the wheel, hence the need for the strength of a bear.

We know it has been very cold in the Donkey Wheel chamber, hence the need for a cold weather animal, like the polar bear.

We know the wheel needs to be turned, hence the need for a trainable animal.

We know Dharma was training the bears for something.

Also, regarding the archaeological dig: those bones were not fossilized, as well the Dharma Hydra Station collar is obvious evidence that the bear had not been there for long, it would have disintigrated in very little time.

Back to the topic of this thread. I think that when Widmore left he never thought about remembering the exact spot where he ended up but he had an idea of where it was.

He must have known that you could leave the island like Michael and Walt did using a certain pre-determined bearing. He did not think that Ben would move the island.

But I think that somehow Widmore was expecting Locke. So maybe in the past he encountered some of the Lefties and when he asked about the old mand John Locke they told him that he had left. After making his money over the years, he paid some Bedouins to keep guard and if they would find anybody out of the ordinary there that they should capture them. Well they eventually found Ben and this is how he knew the exact location of the exit. After this he set up all those cameras just waiting for Locke.

Some times i feel some people just come here to argue, that's how some people are coming off, not naming names.

Back to the topic of this thread. I think that when Widmore left he never thought about remembering the exact spot where he ended up but he had an idea of where it was.

He must have known that you could leave the island like Michael and Walt did using a certain pre-determined bearing. He did not think that Ben would move the island.

But I think that somehow Widmore was expecting Locke. So maybe in the past he encountered some of the Lefties and when he asked about the old man John Locke they told him that he had left. After making his money over the years, he paid some Bedouins to keep guard and if they would find anybody out of the ordinary there that they should capture them. Well they eventually found Ben and this is how he knew the exact location of the exit. After this he set up all those cameras just waiting for Locke.
I almost posted something very similar the other night.:
This part I agree with completely.

I think that when Widmore left he never thought about remembering the exact spot where he ended up but he had an idea of where it was.

He must have known that you could leave the island like Michael and Walt did using a certain pre-determined bearing.

Widmore wasn't surprised by Ben's visit so he knew that Ben had left the Island by turning the FDW.

BEN: Wake up, Charles.
[Charles Widmore pulls on a bedside lamp.]
WIDMORE: I wondered when you were gonna show up. I see you've been getting more sun.

Ben confirmed it from this part of the conversation. If he had left by any other way he wouldn't need to look for the Island.

WIDMORE: That island's mine, Benjamin. It always was. It will be again.
BEN: (Turning) But you'll never find it.
WIDMORE: Then I suppose the hunt is on for both of us.
BEN: I suppose it is. Sleep tight, Charles.

So in the past it was mentioned that Ben left the Island and a few days after him Locke left the the Island. When Widmore was alerted by the Bedouin with the description of Ben having been in that location he knew Ben had turned the FDW. He also had the exact location and knew it was only a matter of time before Locke would show up.

Widmore knew where the island was and must have known that Ben will move the island because Widmore send Keamy and his men.

Is there anyway to look at the apparatus in the bear cage and apply it to the wheel? I've not gone back to see exactly how it works. Were the bears were trained in the cage as a precursor to eventually turning the wheel. I'm not seeing how the wheel would accommodate a bear necessarily. Do you just say, "Okay, bear! Now push turn the wheel." Seems rather silly to me. How do you get a bear down there in the first place? And what was that chamber that Ben blew out anyway?

This brings up the question of the polar bear - it probably arrived through the same portal, right? Perhaps it wandered a bit before it died.. but that would still place Charlotte's dig in close proximity to the spot, wouldn't it?

I forgot about the polar bear skeleton in the desert. Wasn't there a polar bear in a cave somewhere on the island? Maybe there is a back entrance to the donkey wheel cave. One that does not require a turn of the wheel to travel?

This is one of the funniest threads I've read in a long time! So many extremely kind and intelligent people, all reverse-engineering the hows and whys of polar bears getting to Tunisia by turning a Frozen Donkey Wheel.

I toast you all, and wish you were here with me to share a brew and have this discussion live, in person.

This is one of the funniest threads I've read in a long time! So many extremely kind and intelligent people, all reverse-engineering the hows and whys of polar bears getting to Tunisia by turning a Frozen Donkey Wheel.

I toast you all, and wish you were here with me to share a brew and have this discussion live, in person.


It does seem rather ridiculous, doesn't it?

By looking at Hawking's map on the floor, it certainly appeared that all the windows (to the Islands) that open ocassionally happen over open water, over oceans. But then where both Ben and John ended up, when leaving the Island, was in the desert in Tunisia, and Widmore confirmed that it was an exit. Is it possible that the desert in Tunisia is the only exit, and if not, would it be logical for us to assume that any other exit would also be at a specific place on land? I guess it makes perfect sense, because imagine if you leave the Islands and then ended up somewhere in the middle of the ocean.

If the Tunisia exit is the only one, then I believe it exists at exactly the opposite coordinates from where the Islands are physically located. But knowing the physical location of the Islands doesn't mean that you can find them, because you still need to find a window to Island time and space in order to travel to the Islands. Without a window, it's as if the Islands don't exist.

By looking at Hawking's map on the floor, it certainly appeared that all the windows (to the Islands) that open ocassionally happen over open water, over oceans. But then where both Ben and John ended up, when leaving the Island, was in the desert in Tunisia, and Widmore confirmed that it was an exit. Is it possible that the desert in Tunisia is the only exit, and if not, would it be logical for us to assume that any other exit would also be at a specific place on land? I guess it makes perfect sense, because imagine if you leave the Islands and then ended up somewhere in the middle of the ocean.

If the Tunisia exit is the only one, then I believe it exists at exactly the opposite coordinates from where the Islands are physically located. But knowing the physical location of the Islands doesn't mean that you can find them, because you still need to find a window to Island time and space in order to travel to the Islands. Without a window, it's as if the Islands don't exist.
It seems as if the Tunisia exit is only an exit you can not go back to the Island via the Tunisia exit because it is not a window to the Island. I believe the exit only opens up when the FDW is turned. I believe it is the only exit for when the FDW is turned. That's why both Locke and Ben ended up there and it seems Widmore did to because he knew about it.

If the Tunisia exit is the only one, then I believe it exists at exactly the opposite coordinates from where the Islands are physically located.

This goes back to the 'antipodal' theory of why it the 'exit' goes to Tunisia. It's the exact opposite of where the island was at that time.

Pelegrin_1 makes a good point that since now we know the island does move around in space, not just time....it follows that there must be other 'exits'?

So to get to an exit over land, one must know or be real lucky when the island is in a place that it's antipodal will be over land.

because imagine if you leave the Islands and then ended up somewhere in the middle of the ocean.
Good point. in this theory it could happen and people drown..another reason to use bears? many of the points on Mrs. H's map were around Antarctica, so their antipodals would be around the Arctic...where PBears could survive.

This 'exit only' theory that Widdie seemed to verify seems to also kill the idea (that I liked too) that some ancient Egyptians or Phoneicians, like Alpert, wandered into the portal zone at the wrong time and was flashed to the island.

If the "the island moves, so the exits move too" theory is correct, the PBear that Char found in the desert is not as big a problem as to why it wasn't at the same site that Benry and Locke went to.

Pelegrin_1 makes a good point that since now we know the island does move around in space, not just time....it follows that there must be other 'exits'?

So to get to an exit over land, one must know or be real lucky when the island is in a place that it's antipodal will be over land.


It's unfortunate that I must contradict what you've said, especially after you said that I made "a good point", but your point is a misinterpretation of what I meant. Yes, I mentioned "space" as well as "time", so I'm partly the blame, but what I meant was that the Islands exist in space but not in normal time. If you find a window to Island-time, something that is constantly changing with respect to the rhythm of time in the outside world, then you find Island-space. Otherwise, Island-space appears not to exist.

And I added that if the Tunisia exit is the only exit, for which we have no evidence that it isn't, then I believe it is exactly polar-opposite from where the Islands physically exist, though if you look for them there you will not find them because to find them you first must find a window that will lead you to Island-space... windows which themselves are constantly moving with respect to the constantly changing Island-time.

So the key is not to look for the Islands but to look for a window to the Islands. But if you find one then I suppose you can never be sure what Island-time that window might take you to.... unless perhaps if you have some Hawking technology that might help you find a window to take you to the island-time that you wish to go to, though I'm not sure her technology enables that ability.

If the Tunisia exit is the only one, then I believe it exists at exactly the opposite coordinates from where the Islands are physically located.

This goes back to the 'antipodal' theory of why it the 'exit' goes to Tunisia. It's the exact opposite of where the island was at that time.

Pelegrin_1 makes a good point that since now we know the island does move around in space, not just time....it follows that there must be other 'exits'?

So to get to an exit over land, one must know or be real lucky when the island is in a place that it's antipodal will be over land.
I see less and less possibility for there to be any support for the antipodal ideas. The 2004 location of the island was somewhere around Fiji, as it was the port that the freighter last left from to get there (and 815's destination on crashing). The 2001 location, given by Desmond is given as "less than a week" due east of Fiji. The 1988 location was within 3 days of Tahiti, which can't be too far from the 2001 and 2004 locations. None of these areas can be anywhere near south enough to be an antipode of Tunisia.

Then in 2005, the island moved a good distance when Ben turned the wheel. According to the map, it is now just north of the equator, in a location that jibes with the route between Hawaii and Guam. That's where it was when Locke turned the wheel, and and he ended up in the exact same exit point as Ben. So the exit point does not move when the island moves.

This 'exit only' theory that Widdie seemed to verify seems to also kill the idea (that I liked too) that some ancient Egyptians or Phoneicians, like Alpert, wandered into the portal zone at the wrong time and was flashed to the island.
I personally prefer the idea that the Egyptians came from the island, rather than that they went to the island.

Still, the fact that it is referred to as "the exit" implies (at least to me) that there is another point which is "the entrance". Right now, the prime candidate (at least to me) is Tallahassee. I don't believe much of what Ben says, but I have always believed what he said that it was Locke who brought his father to the island from Tallahassee. Interestingly enough, the highway that Cooper was driving on, inside Tallahassee,, passes over the edge of Lake Jackson. Lake Jackson is the home of temple mounds, containing archeological sites that have been dated back to 10,000 BC. That's older than Egyptian civilization (and dates back to when Tunisia was a paradise and not a desert).

I see less and less possibility for there to be any support for the antipodal ideas.. None of these areas can be anywhere near south enough to be an antipode of Tunisia.

in a location that jibes with the route between Hawaii and Guam. So the exit point does not move when the island moves.

I personally prefer the idea that the Egyptians came from the island, rather than that they went to the island.

Tallahassee... Lake Jackson is the home of temple mounds, containing archeological sites that have been dated back to 10,000 BC. That's older than Egyptian civilization (and dates back to when Tunisia was a paradise and not a desert).

Wow! some really good discussion here! The best i've seen in weeks or more.
Thanks for responding, i was hoping to spur some discussion...this has always been about my favorite Lost topic.
I come prepared with charts and graphs for my own 'dog and pony show'.:)

First off you 2 seem to not agree on the the concept of the island moving or not moving?

Now I'm not sure at all???

If i'm reading this correct, Pelegrin_1 is saying the Island does NOT move, the windows to get to it do...correct? to shorten his quotes:
"If you find a window to Island-time, .... then you find Island-space.
I believe it is exactly polar-opposite from where the Islands physically exist,...you first must find a window .....which themselves are constantly moving"

Ok, i think i understand now...and it makes sense in the idea that the only 'exit' is in Tunisia. No matter where you enter a 'window', you go to the same place, which is antipodal to Tunisia.
Here is the infamous 'vile vortex' map:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/67ae6628586876

It has always showed that Triangle #45 (where Lostia was believed to be) is antipodal from #20 in N. Africa. The problem with that is what Pyth said, that the clues we've gotten all these seasons point to a place further east towards Tahiti. I think all the clues have been consistent that the Island is/was in the S.Cook islands, even Desmond's.
The S1 "where are they" Clue map: the area where the blue and red circles overlap is where they should be.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/fcf1c928589935
The Cook Islands close-up: I did some work on Palmerston Island back then, very interesting stuff.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/3724d128589943

Here is the map of N.Africa, the area that the 'Drug Plane' map was showing, and a permutation of the 'numbers' in lat and long. The star is the point the coord's made.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/64cb9a28587072
The top of the map is Tunisia, and within the apex of triangle #20.

I've always argued that the island could NOT have been within ^ #45, since it didn't fit the clues given. Now we get more and more clues re. Tunisia that suggest that it is.

Daniel's 'chart' in his notebook:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/11d26c28587423
The 'infamous' Ley Lines map of the world:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/b8f69e28586879
The floor map in the "lamppost station".(inverted for easier reading)
http://www.imagebam.com/image/6c94ab28586880

map of Pacific Ocean: Guam is on the far left...or West near the Phili's
http://www.imagebam.com/image/44b82428595398

Don't the forst 3 all look a lot alike? The old theory was that the Island moves along these "Ley Lines" to the other points on the map. Mrs.H's map sure seems to suggest this as well. Didn't she saying something about "looking for where is the Island was going to be"? She also talked about where the windows where going to be...that's where i get confused..???

Were not the flt 316 going from LA to Guam? (even though we know it's filmed in Hawaii) I thought that would put this 'window' at the one to the left of the center one, but i have not looked up a flt. route map...there must be some that have been found. I guess they could fly over H. as a safety thing?

As they are flying along..we get an "Lostia Flash" like we've seen a bunch of now. They they are all suddenly on Lostia, and plane was safely landed on Hydra by Frank. Doesn't all this suggest that the plane was right over the Island?

So in conclusion; you both made great points, but not conclusive yet. I always felt the island stayed in one place but moved in 'time'....but now???
Current event sure seem to change all that....I'm not happy about it but..
It seems to me Lostia does move...but that makes no sense!!

(i even used to poke fun at the "Movers"or "Spacies" by mentioning the Floating Island of "Laputa" in Gulliver's Travels.) vs. the "Timers".
===========

"Egyptians came from the island"..are you suggesting something akin to the "Mu/Lemeria" being the origin of all civilizations theory? ..I still lean toward ancient explorers/sailors (maybe from MU) found the Island and settled there.

Also, I had not heard about the "Tallahassee mounds" before..Awesome! I've read and seen stuff on the mounds in Missouri before. these would pre-date those.

Many theories (not Lost related, but in "New Age" lore) center on the idea that there was a common civilization that spread out all over around 10,500 B.C. (too bad they made such a bad movie about this) My posts re. Angkor Wat/S. India as the arch'l style of the Temple walls hint at this as well. TPTB have even since confirmed the 'walls' as being S. India in origin, not Egyptian.



?Q. Why did it disappear from the O6'rs on the chopper?
Hope you guys see this before the new epi.

Thanks again for all the new info! :)