Now don't get me wrong here I love this show. It's the best show ever on TV in my opinion. I'm just wondering if it seems to be losing it's epic struggle feel?

In the beginning we had a lot of people trying to survive a serious plane crash. Then there's all sorts of strangeness ominously hanging over them. We find they all have tangled, connected and sordid pasts.

Then we find there's a seemingly endless supply of "others" all spooky and stuff. They terorize the Losties. Losties get mad and lots of "others" get killed.

Then there's the freighter mean guys coming in to torch the joint. They fail but lots of people get killed. All very "Epic" to this point.

Claire takes a powder. Becomes a non-factor.

Locke becomes the other's leader. It seems he's in control of about 8 people huddled in the woods. He disappears.

6 original crash survivors leave (actually 5 adults)

Very few original crash survivors left on the island. In fact only Sawyer, Rose, Bernard and Vincent are left. Flaming arrows and nosebleeds. Lots of people without names get killed. The remaining few trip through time. Rose and Bernard go off somewhere and become a non-factor leaving Sawyer with Juliet who split from the others. I'm not including Faraday and Miles as they do not count. They came with bad intentions in the first place. Miles can die and no one cares.

Locke splits.

Jin pops back up. Freaks out.

Locke tells the O6 they have to go back to save the ones left behind. He seems to spare them all the details of small stuff like time travel and crazy young Widmore. No one seems to care at first but they go back anyway.

I guess what I'm getting at is where's the big struggle now? They all came back to save what, 5 people? Whoopiee! Widmore warns of a WAR that cannot be lost at any cost! Between who? The 10 or so original crash survivors and the 8-10 huddled in the woods or temple or whereever? Doesn't seem too Epic to me anymore.

Oh yeah let's add in (THE epic struggle killer of them all) that they all know; YES you can leave the island AND return.

I'm hoping there's something menacing about to pop out of the woodwork because as it stands it just doesn't seem all that menacing. I'm hoping that they are not going back to save a few people but to save "us all". I'm just not getting that vibe lately.

Maybe it will be the resurection of Locke that makes it epic again?

Well, I'm thinking that things will become more clear and focused towards the end. At least I hope so!
All of our players are coming back together now after being scattered for a while. I think the sides of this war will arrange themselves over the episodes to come.

I think that by referencing Eloise, Widmore, Abaddon, and Christian again, it's kind of evening it out. I do think that Locke's resurrection is pretty epic though.

I sincerely hope that the writers are not counting on Locke's resurrection to give the show it's epic quality because I find it somewhat hokey and I'm just not that invested...and I like Locke

I 100% back this show and all of it's greatness. That said.
The writers have done a great job as painting Ben as evil, then good, then evil, then good etc...
Widmore is evil, now he might be good. I've applauded their previous efforts at perspective.
That said, I'm kind of getting to the point where they need to tell us who everyone is and then proceed with a struggle that is transparent. Ben is good. Widmore is bad. OR Ben and Widmore are bad and a new force is good. Whatever it is, the lines need to be drawn pretty soon because I will argue that no one on here is as big of a fan than I am and my interest is starting to fade.

Also, now that you bring up the epic feel. It's weird to think that the Oceanic 5 have to return to save the lives of Locke, Sawyer, Jin, Rose and Bernard. By the way, where are Rose and Bernard. We still don't know why the O6 need to return and neither do they. Locke still hasn't told Jack about his healed paralysis upon landing on the island. Even when begging him to come back Locke still does not devulge this information. If the island is a poker game, this was Locke's time to go "all in" with his chips and he continued to bluff.

When does Fringe come back on?

I 100% back this show and all of it's greatness. That said.
The writers have done a great job as painting Ben as evil, then good, then evil, then good etc...
Widmore is evil, now he might be good. I've applauded their previous efforts at perspective.
That said, I'm kind of getting to the point where they need to tell us who everyone is and then proceed with a struggle that is transparent. Ben is good. Widmore is bad. OR Ben and Widmore are bad and a new force is good. Whatever it is, the lines need to be drawn pretty soon because I will argue that no one on here is as big of a fan than I am and my interest is starting to fade.

There are only one and a half seasons left, and Widmore talks of a War coming. Good news for you, I think! The last season should be incredibly epic. Well, I hope it is.

As soon as I read the title, I said "yep".

Widmore's "war" will turn out like Locke's "bad things happened".
The writers try to tease and build suspense by loading lines with ominous overtones, then we viewers construct elaborate scenarios for which the epic scale can't possibly be achieved, then the actual event is a let down.

As soon as I read the title, I said "yep".

Widmore's "war" will turn out like Locke's "bad things happened".
The writers try to tease and build suspense by loading lines with ominous overtones, then we viewers construct elaborate scenarios for which the epic scale can't possibly be achieved, then the actual event is a let down.

If that's the case, it's our own fault. That's why I try not to speculate too much. Let's have horrible expectations, and then let anything they show us be better! Yay!

I have a feeling that the war which Widmore referred to will be the epic struggle which everything up to this point has been leading to. Locke seems destined to play a pivotal role, and my guess is that this will involve one of two scenarios:

1. A war in the future involving an attempt by Richard to extend his influence beyond the shores of the island. Or...

2. A war in the past with John as a heroic figure (as suggested, perhaps, by the similarity between the four-toed statue and the recent image of John's lower leg in a cast, with only four toes visible)

The important thing is not to build up your expectations. We're still talking about a TV show, they don't have the budget to show us an epic war a-la "Troy". But we should trust the writers that they'll fill S6 with enough fantastic moments in the end that we'll fill satisfied with the story.

Troy was epic? Bleh.

The Iliad was epic...Troy, not soo much

I think that by referencing Eloise, Widmore, Abaddon, and Christian again, it's kind of evening it out. I do think that Locke's resurrection is pretty epic though.

I hope Locke's second coming leads to the epic struggle I'm hoping for.

There are only one and a half seasons left, and Widmore talks of a War coming. Good news for you, I think! The last season should be incredibly epic. Well, I hope it is.

I think this whole War thing is being built up too much. Probably just a few more flaming arrows vs. Juliet shooting behind her while running for the hills. Or a few gas cannisters here and there.

Yes. Abbadon getting killed killed the "epic-ness" a bit too. Maybe if the "War" includes the dead Losties souls like Charlie, Boone, etc. and FINALLY makes use of Walt, then it could be cool. Just not enough core characters to give a damn about.

Actually, Walt being brushed over brought down the "epicness" SO much. I mean, TPTB are really proud to show that they've known what they've done from the start and all that, but, what about Walt? The first 2 seasons Walt was built up to be this ultra powerful kid, and NOW all we get is "Hey, had some dreams John. Dudes trying to kill you"

To make this show epic, follow through on Walt's supernatural powers from the first 2 seasons. THAT would prove they had things set up all along. Forget about Adam and Eve, did they know what they were doing with Walt?

I think Bill's point is correct. There are so few of the original Losties in place that the outcome of the show seems somehow diminished. I know for me personally it was the original cast, even the red shirts, that I was really invested in and now most are gone.

I have liked additions to the cast like Eko, Juliet, Desmond but if the whole thing comes down to what happens between Ben, Widmore, and Richard, ...I can't say that I really care ...I'm not emotionally invested in any of them same goes for Jesus, really...erm, I mean Locke

Miles can die and no one cares.



Hey now! At first, I didn't care for any of the freighter folk but now, I care about how they're connected to the stories. This includes snarky Miles from Encino LOL

I believe there is more drama and suspense right here on the 'lage than on the show.

In some ways, okay in many ways, what is happening in here is more exciting that the characters and the entire Lost story.


I just re-read what I wrote and I have to conclude; that's really sad. But true.


P. S. GO VINCENT!

Now don't get me wrong here I love this show. It's the best show ever on TV in my opinion. I'm just wondering if it seems to be losing it's epic struggle feel?



Here's what I think...A looong time ago TPTB said that Locke's conversation with Walt about backgammon was very important. Two sides, one light, one dark. I think that the "war" that Widmore mentioned has been in the proocess of being set up for the last few years. We get introduced to both sides, Widmore and Ben, and the Losties that survive will pick a side, and it all leads up to a war in the final season.

Over time we'll figure out which side is light, which is dark and where the Losties fall. Then the war. I think That is the "epic" that this show is supposed to be about. So, how this show is remembered will ultimately have to do with how "epic" that final war really is.

I thought we were in for some REALLY epic struggle material at the end of season 4 when Locke became leader of the others, but then the show went off on this tangent. I hope now that Locke is back they can pick up where they left off, overall though the show still has that epic struggle feeling to me.

Even if they saved the earth from total destruction I wouldn't call Lost "epic" or any struggle in it "epic". Especially with characters like Ben and Ms. Hawking...

I think the 'war' will determine the fate of the world. If I'm right, then it's still plenty epic.

I think the 'war' will determine the fate of the world.

You put it into one sentence. :)

This is exactly what I'm hoping will be the case too. With all the "god help us all" kind of things I really hope this is what it's going to.

Epic struggle over? It hasn't even begun!

I think the show is at a critical juncture...the writers are moving the story to a bigger stage and having it deal with bigger issues but in doing so they have to tie the characters in in a way that makes us care about the outcome...they haven't done that for me yet but they have time...I'm open minded and interested...particularly in Jack's story and how he'll tie in to the mythology (I still wish though that they hadn't killed off soo many of the 815'ers along the way...I miss my redshirts LOL)

Epic struggle over? It hasn't even begun!

With all respect Void, and I do enjoy your opinion on here, the epic struggle began the day they crashed on the island in episode 1. This struggle had gone full throttle through 4 seasons. The reason I started this thread/thought is it seems they have let off the gas a bit. I have full faith they will put the pedal to the metal very soon (in the struggle department). It just seems (to borrow another sports analogy) they are in the middle of changing pitchers. Hopefully bringing in the closers from the bull-pen so to speak. :)

...
2. A war in the past with John as a heroic figure (as suggested, perhaps, by the similarity between the four-toed statue and the recent image of John's lower leg in a cast, with only four toes visible)

I re-watched in HD, and 5 toes are clearly visible.

I think the 'war' will determine the fate of the world. If I'm right, then it's still plenty epic.

Given what they've introduced over the last two seasons, this is probably going to be correct. But when they were laying the groundwork for this struggle during Season 1 and part of Season 2 with the light and dark references and choosing sides, I believe that this war was initially supposed to be only an Island conflict. If they had kept it on this scale, I believe that it would still have an epic feel.

...
I guess what I'm getting at is where's the big struggle now? They all came back to save what, 5 people? Whoopiee! Widmore warns of a WAR that cannot be lost at any cost! Between who? The 10 or so original crash survivors and the 8-10 huddled in the woods or temple or whereever? Doesn't seem too Epic to me anymore.

Oh yeah let's add in (THE epic struggle killer of them all) that they all know; YES you can leave the island AND return.

I'm hoping there's something menacing about to pop out of the woodwork because as it stands it just doesn't seem all that menacing. I'm hoping that they are not going back to save a few people but to save "us all". I'm just not getting that vibe lately.
,,,,

I agree. We need to see what is at stake before too much longer. Is it just the few survivors on the island, the island itself, or the fate of the world?

I 100% back this show and all of it's greatness. That said.
The writers have done a great job as painting Ben as evil, then good, then evil, then good etc...
Widmore is evil, now he might be good. I've applauded their previous efforts at perspective.
That said, I'm kind of getting to the point where they need to tell us who everyone is and then proceed with a struggle that is transparent. Ben is good. Widmore is bad. OR Ben and Widmore are bad and a new force is good. Whatever it is, the lines need to be drawn pretty soon because I will argue that no one on here is as big of a fan than I am and my interest is starting to fade.
...


Yes, it is hard to get invested in an epic struggle when you keep getting whipsawed about whose side you should be on. It's cool to keep us guessing, but the down side is if you keep people guessing too long they stop caring (as in Heroes).

As soon as I read the title, I said "yep".

Widmore's "war" will turn out like Locke's "bad things happened".
The writers try to tease and build suspense by loading lines with ominous overtones, then we viewers construct elaborate scenarios for which the epic scale can't possibly be achieved, then the actual event is a let down.

And let me add another "yep" to yours, lostmio.


I think the show is at a critical juncture...the writers are moving the story to a bigger stage and having it deal with bigger issues but in doing so they have to tie the characters in in a way that makes us care about the outcome...they haven't done that for me yet but they have time...I'm open minded and interested...particularly in Jack's story and how he'll tie in to the mythology (I still wish though that they hadn't killed off soo many of the 815'ers along the way...I miss my redshirts LOL)

Agree that they haven't done the job yet but I also hope that they will. They may have to swap some mystery for fan investment. I do think there is a "war" coming but hope the stakes are high enough to justify the cost in dead 815ers. The fans have suffered a lot of losses and want the payoff to be commensurate, imo.

I'm fully invested in Lost; but the "offing" of Abbadon [one of my favorite characters and hopes for the show's progress] shifted my thinking to a very cynical line, which I fully hope is wrong:

-We connected with characters, so well developed that we stuck with them even at the total discounting of what our senses had observed: To this very day we are talking about the good and heroic side of Ben.

-I think back to the Dharma Initiative and how so many dedicated scientific specialists in so many disciplines worked their tails off, being observed by others [with their own assignments to observe] as if watching lab rats in a maze.

-I recall a field with all those critical notes, observations and reports, diligently written and sent up the pneumatic chutes into an empty field where nobady cared ..... just litter.

-We buy into hieroglyphics, statues, projected apparitions, time travel, worm holes, ghosts, resurrected dead, peripatetic cabins, Island moving, while writers concoct ever-new and incredible and mind-bending leaps of faith, apparently discarding all the former teases into which we invested ourselves so willingly. We are being played, just like Dharma employees.

-I agree; the epic quality is gone, because the cast is becoming like a scorecard without numbers; and one gets the feeling that Jen and Sawyer and Rose and Bernard may not have been shunted aside ..... they found out they were self-sufficient and decided to start their own colony.

Like I said - I hope I'm wrong.

With all respect Void, and I do enjoy your opinion on here, the epic struggle began the day they crashed on the island in episode 1. This struggle had gone full throttle through 4 seasons. The reason I started this thread/thought is it seems they have let off the gas a bit. I have full faith they will put the pedal to the metal very soon (in the struggle department). It just seems (to borrow another sports analogy) they are in the middle of changing pitchers. Hopefully bringing in the closers from the bull-pen so to speak. :)

I don't know, i find it the opposite, this story is just peaking now, it's going to get a lot more action a lot more mystery, not the discovery period they were going through in the first 108 days, it seems this season they are finally reaching the deep end, when action is going to happen, it took so long to put all of the pieces in play that they are finally ready to start revealing the real story of LOST, the reason why all of this is happening, we have gone 4 and a half seasons without learning what is this really all about.

Even if they saved the earth from total destruction I wouldn't call Lost "epic" or any struggle in it "epic". Especially with characters like Ben and Ms. Hawking...

Dittos. Well said.

And if Lost is an epic, shouldn't we have been shown at the beginning of the story what was at stake and who the good guys are and who the bad guys are?

What I am reading in this thread is folks using the word "epic" hoping that the story will get better. I'm seeing a lot of wishful thinking that the show will suddenly hit the ground running and that the story and the story telling will take off.

I am afraid that we are going to get more of the same. I don't think the story or the story telling is going to deliver anything close to "epic."
100%
With all respect Void, and I do enjoy your opinion on here, the epic struggle began the day they crashed on the island in episode 1. This struggle had gone full throttle through 4 seasons. The reason I started this thread/thought is it seems they have let off the gas a bit. I have full faith they will put the pedal to the metal very soon (in the struggle department). It just seems (to borrow another sports analogy) they are in the middle of changing pitchers. Hopefully bringing in the closers from the bull-pen so to speak. :)

By the way, a good manager will change pitchers when a team is down and is doing badly. In other words, when a team is losing, that's when you change pitchers.

If by "closers" you mean bringing out a "ringer" then they had better put him into the game soon. Personally, I think it's a little late for that.


P. S. GO VINCENT! GET OUT THERE AND HIT A HOME RUN.
100%
... that they are finally ready to start revealing the real story of LOST, the reason why all of this is happening, we have gone 4 and a half seasons without learning what is this really all about.

Four and a half seasons and the real story has not been revealed? That's just sad. No wonder so many viewers are starting to have "buyer's remorse" about investing so much time into the story.

Since the start of this season, the story has gone nowhere but sideways.

Epic? Hardly.

Also see:
Buyer's Remorse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer's_remorse

Post-Purchase Reationalization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization

I hate to admit it, but I am currently feeling a little bit of both of these.

The important thing is not to build up your expectations. We're still talking about a TV show, they don't have the budget to show us an epic war a-la "Troy".

Or even Season One of Lost. That first crash brought us a cast of maybe a dozen important characters, a few lesser but interesting ones that came and went (the pilot, the U.S. marshall, Artz), and a bunch of redshirts. This second crash introduced a total of two new characters. The producers can no longer afford the attention to detail that they gave us in the pilot. We need to root out the strengths of the story they give us and the performances of the characters we know up to this point. This, Lost fans, is what you call survival.