Juliet can suddenly operate on Ben and no one questions this?

She worked in the motor pool as far as DHARMA was concerned and poof she can suddenly perform serious surgery on Ben.

Did I miss something here or did the DHARMA leaders say sure let the lady who works on VW engines to operate on the kid?

By doing this did Juliet blow her cover... I mean someone has to ask some questions here. I have a feeling she going to have some questions to answer. I hope they don't find her "mark" on her back. Could get uncomfortable for her.

Juliet can suddenly operate on Ben and no one questions this?

She worked in the motor pool as far as DHARMA was concerned and poof she can suddenly perform serious surgery on Ben.

Did I miss something here or did the DHARMA leaders say sure let the lady who works on VW engines to operate on the kid?

By doing this did Juliet blow her cover... I mean someone has to ask some questions here. I have a feeling she going to have some questions to answer. I hope they don't find her "mark" on her back. Could get uncomfortable for her.

Well, Juliet did just successfully deliver Ethan, so they already know she has medical training - it wouldn't have been completely random for the other members of the DI.

But I certainly think there will be some fall-out from this, and Juliet's sudden medical abilities will make the DI suspicious of her, James, Miles and Jin. It would be ridiculous if no one questions her about this.

Well, in case you forgot, she delivered Ethan for Amy and Horace.

I agree that it's strange that the DI just has her go back to the motor pool after she did that, but I guess they already had a doctor and she probably said that she preferred working on the cars. But she was called back to duty tonight because the regular doctor was in the Looking Glass.

You have to suspend disbelief a little... but you have to do that for believing time travel too, so... ;)

LostLaura: thanks for bringing up suspension of disbelief. I love that phrase. Maybe you have an art history degree or something like me.

Well, in case you forgot, she delivered Ethan for Amy and Horace.

I agree that it's strange that the DI just has her go back to the motor pool after she did that, but I guess they already had a doctor and she probably said that she preferred working on the cars. But she was called back to duty tonight because the regular doctor was in the Looking Glass.

You have to suspend disbelief a little... but you have to do that for believing time travel too, so... ;)

I understand about suspending disbelief but let's be frank... delivering a baby is a far cry from saving someone from a gunshot to the heart area. Babies have been delivered by taxi cab drivers successfully. Doubtful the same taxi driver could perform surgery on a child shot in the heart area. Maybe it's just me but it seems very strange.

I think it's perfectly reasonable. Remember that Horace thinks they shipwrecked. Juliet was never vetted by Dharma, so they don't really know what her background is. There would have been a HUGE problem if Jack had saved Ben bc Dharma had supposedly vetted him.

Horace: How did you know how to deliver Ethan? I thought you were a mechanic.
Juliet (channeling her inner Libby): I had medical training. (whispers)I dropped out after the accident.
Horace: The "incident?" What's that?
Sawyer: No, she said "accident." She was operating and her Dad came in drunk. She never forgave him and she doesn't like to talk about it.
-scene-

I understand about suspending disbelief but let's be frank... delivering a baby is a far cry from saving someone from a gunshot to the heart area. Babies have been delivered by taxi cab drivers successfully. Doubtful the same taxi driver could perform surgery on a child shot in the heart area. Maybe it's just me but it seems very strange.

Well, it was a c-section, so it wasn't like Juliet just caught Ethan. It was surgery too. And even though she did deliver Ethan, she wasn't able to save Ben. He would have died if not for Richard, so that helps lend some credibility, in my eyes.

Well, there was no one else. Would you rather someone that might possibly be able to save someone try or just let them die? These days (not the 70's though! LOL) people could learn that stuff just by watching the Discovery Channel!! I'd probably take the chance.

Sawyer, oh I'm sorry, Lafleur, asked Juliette where the doctor was and she said he was at the looking glass station so someone had to step up and why not someone who has proven before to be more than just a mechanic. This probably wasnt her first time since the delivery.

I think the more important issue she will have to answer to is why she allowed Kate (the new girl) take been to the Hostiles and ultimately give him away.

Well, in case you forgot, she delivered Ethan for Amy and Horace.

I agree that it's strange that the DI just has her go back to the motor pool after she did that, but I guess they already had a doctor and she probably said that she preferred working on the cars. But she was called back to duty tonight because the regular doctor was in the Looking Glass.

You have to suspend disbelief a little... but you have to do that for believing time travel too, so... ;)
That's exactly what I thought.

LostLaura: thanks for bringing up suspension of disbelief. I love that phrase. Maybe you have an art history degree or something like me.

hehe English major (but I think a lot of people on the boards use the phrase, actually....)

I understand about suspending disbelief but let's be frank... delivering a baby is a far cry from saving someone from a gunshot to the heart area. Babies have been delivered by taxi cab drivers successfully. Doubtful the same taxi driver could perform surgery on a child shot in the heart area. Maybe it's just me but it seems very strange.

Hm, yes, I see your point, but as it was a C-section....

I think what it must come down to is that she was the most trained of the bunch (as far as they knew) who could do anything medical. You could be right that what happened tonight (especially letting Kate take him away) will raise major alarms. And then when James and Kate return... if anyone sees James with her, the house of cards is fallen.

Sawyer, oh I'm sorry, Lafleur, asked Juliette where the doctor was and she said he was at the looking glass station so someone had to step up and why not someone who has proven before to be more than just a mechanic. This probably wasnt her first time since the delivery.

I think the more important issue she will have to answer to is why she allowed Kate (the new girl) take been to the Hostiles and ultimately give him away.

She said the Doc would be there until Friday. Seems to be a long time to spend in that particular station, unless there is much more of that Station than we've seen

Well, as LL already stated, she delivered Horace's baby, and Horace is the DI leader. I'm sure Horace can gloss over many things. Plus when the rest of the DI found out Juliet delivered the baby, I don't think they would be too suspicious, but thankful. Being the doc wouldn't be her usual job, but at least they know they have someone they can turn too in emergencies. Not too mention, it's not like she lied on some recruitment test since they were incorporated into the DI as shipwrecked sailors.

It's funny that Juliet operating is what's being questioned and the fact that they were carrying little Ben around the Island after he just had major chest surgery isn't!?!? I'm not too worried about this though, because after all, it is just a TV show and like LL stated before, we need to suspend belief just a little bit.;)

Doubtful the same taxi driver could perform surgery on a child shot in the heart area.And Juliet can't perform in-depth surgery either - she's a nurse. That's why she couldn't save Ben herself. It seemed like what she did was very much like a medic in a war - pull the bullet and stop the external bleeding.

To address the rest of the issue (why send anyone trained in any amount of medicine to the motor pool), refer back to Roger's comments to Kate about placement - sure, there's some bitterness there, but it would appear Dharma in general is poor at placing its volunteers where their skills are applicable, poor enough that when Kate has no clue how to operate the winch it's not considered unusual. It's possible that answering why Dharma has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare may be relevant - the last few episodes have definitely left a little bit of a bitter taste in my mouth about Dharma, such that it's not impossible that we may be cheering for the Purge when it comes, if we see it from the Losties perspective.

Okay I give. Juliet was perfectly capable in dharma's eyes to perform surgery on young ben even though I find it strange that none of the leaders (Horace etc) were in attendance. Since many seem to think the bigger question is why would she let Kate take Ben away (and of course Sawyer's complicity in this act) let's think on that one. :) Will the cover be blown and what will this mean for the losties?
100%
Juliet's cover being blown was my original reason for posting this.

And Juliet can't perform in-depth surgery either - she's a nurse. That's why she couldn't save Ben herself. It seemed like what she did was very much like a medic in a war - pull the bullet and stop the external bleeding.

No, Juliet is an MD, who I'm pretty sure is an OB/GYN and went into research. She's performed surgeries before and even mentions to Jack when she's performing his appendectomy that she has done this before.

Sawyer, oh I'm sorry, Lafleur, asked Juliette where the doctor was and she said he was at the looking glass station so someone had to step up and why not someone who has proven before to be more than just a mechanic. This probably wasnt her first time since the delivery.

I think it might have been her first time since the delivery. In major surgery anyway. Remember that "hold your hand up if you think the captured Hostile (Sayid) should go see Oldham?" scene? Ethan was an infant in Amy's arms. Juliet didn't deliver him that long ago. A cesarean is major surgery enough. Ben was shot with a bullet near his heart. Since the official DI doctor was at the Looking Glass, for whatever reason, it doesn't surprise me in the least Juliet is the first person they called.

It's not like the Dharma Initiative knew they had a world reknowned spinal surgeon in their midst. :biggrin:
100%
Juliet's cover being blown was my original reason for posting this.
Her cover had already been blown.

And Juliet can't perform in-depth surgery either - she's a nurse. That's why she couldn't save Ben herself. It seemed like what she did was very much like a medic in a war - pull the bullet and stop the external bleeding.

To address the rest of the issue (why send anyone trained in any amount of medicine to the motor pool), refer back to Roger's comments to Kate about placement - sure, there's some bitterness there, but it would appear Dharma in general is poor at placing its volunteers where their skills are applicable, poor enough that when Kate has no clue how to operate the winch it's not considered unusual. It's possible that answering why Dharma has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare may be relevant - the last few episodes have definitely left a little bit of a bitter taste in my mouth about Dharma, such that it's not impossible that we may be cheering for the Purge when it comes, if we see it from the Losties perspective.

Juliet's a fertility doctor, is she not? Nurses don't perform appendectomies.

Juliet's a fertility doctor, is she not? Nurses don't perform appendectomies.

Yes, she is a fertility doctor. Now, I'm not a doctor, but I would think that someone who is a fertility doctor would have to have training in obstetrics.

Now, if Jack would have operated on Ben, the whole lie would have been exposed in a second. According to Jack's aptitude test, he had skills to be a work man, not a surgeon!

I'm just under the impression they know she used to be a doctor, or at least had medical training.

Yes, she is a fertility doctor. Now, I'm not a doctor, but I would think that someone who is a fertility doctor would have to have training in obstetrics.
Doctors that are certified to operate all have to go through the same medical schooling, internship, residency, etc., before they pick their specialty. So I'm sure Juliet, as a doctor (who can obviously preform surgery as evidenced by Jack's appendectomy and Amy's cesarean), went through the same trenches when she first graduated medical school that Jack did.

Doctors that are certified to operate all have to go through the same medical schooling, internship, residency, etc., before they pick their specialty. So I'm sure Juliet, as a doctor (who can obviously preform surgery as evidenced by Jack's appendectomy and Amy's cesarean), went through the same trenches when she first graduated medical school that Jack did.

Doctors go through the same schooling (AKA first two years), but after that, it's pretty varied. The next two years are rotations, which are different for everyone. After that is residency, which is based on what career you want to pursue (for example, a residency in surgery vs. family practice). You know your specialty before residency, because it basically is the process of specializing. Internships aren't required. ;)

Doctors go through the same schooling (AKA first two years), but after that, it's pretty varied. The next two years are rotations, which are different for everyone. After that is residency, which is based on what career you want to pursue (for example, a residency in surgery vs. family practice). You know your specialty before residency, because it basically is the process of specializing. Internships aren't required. ;):doh: you're right. But, to be fair, I did say "doctors that are certified to operate." :biggrin:


<------obviously not a doctor.

Okay I give. Juliet was perfectly capable in dharma's eyes to perform surgery on young ben even though I find it strange that none of the leaders (Horace etc) were in attendance. Since many seem to think the bigger question is why would she let Kate take Ben away (and of course Sawyer's complicity in this act) let's think on that one. :) Will the cover be blown and what will this mean for the losties?
100%
Juliet's cover being blown was my original reason for posting this.

Edited for emphasis
The bolded comments are the ones I think are the more important ones because they seem to have accepted that Juliet has medical skills. Why weren't any of the honchos, on particular his ol' friend Horace, sitting with Roger and checking with Juliet??
I believe that Julliet's cover is blown and it could be that James is going to be in the soup as well.

Sawyer, oh I'm sorry, Lafleur, asked Juliette where the doctor was and she said he was at the looking glass station so someone had to step up and why not someone who has proven before to be more than just a mechanic. This probably wasnt her first time since the delivery.

I think the more important issue she will have to answer to is why she allowed Kate (the new girl) take been to the Hostiles and ultimately give him away.
Amy had Ethan the night before the Losties arrive. That same day Sayid is captured.
The following night Ben sends the flaming Dharma van into a house and lets Sayid out and is shot. The following morning Ben is found. It has only been a few days since Juliet performed the c-section so I don't think she has performed any more surgeries since the delivery of Ethan.
And Juliet can't perform in-depth surgery either - she's a nurse. That's why she couldn't save Ben herself. It seemed like what she did was very much like a medic in a war - pull the bullet and stop the external bleeding.

To address the rest of the issue (why send anyone trained in any amount of medicine to the motor pool), refer back to Roger's comments to Kate about placement - sure, there's some bitterness there, but it would appear Dharma in general is poor at placing its volunteers where their skills are applicable, poor enough that when Kate has no clue how to operate the winch it's not considered unusual. It's possible that answering why Dharma has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare may be relevant - the last few episodes have definitely left a little bit of a bitter taste in my mouth about Dharma, such that it's not impossible that we may be cheering for the Purge when it comes, if we see it from the Losties perspective.
Dharma is not the ones who assigned Kate to the motor pool it was Juliet whi did that.
Well, in case you forgot, she delivered Ethan for Amy and Horace.

I agree that it's strange that the DI just has her go back to the motor pool after she did that, but I guess they already had a doctor and she probably said that she preferred working on the cars. But she was called back to duty tonight because the regular doctor was in the Looking Glass.

You have to suspend disbelief a little... but you have to do that for believing time travel too, so... ;)
I agree with this but I have to add:
Again it has only been a few days since Ethan was born. Since then they had the sub arrive with new recruits and it had been six months since the last one arrived. They captured a hostile and had to deal with what to do with him. They have a burning Dharma van careen into a house and the hostile gets away. I think promoting a person from motor pool to surgeon would be something they would have to consider. I don't think it would just be a case of okay you're a surgeon now you no longer work on vehicles you now operate on people.

Edited for emphasis
The bolded comments are the ones I think are the more important ones because they seem to have accepted that Juliet has medical skills. Why weren't any of the honchos, on particular his ol' friend Horace, sitting with Roger and checking with Juliet??
I believe that Julliet's cover is blown and it could be that James is going to be in the soup as well.
I think Horace and the rest of the DI braintrust, while worried about the little boy with the bullet in his chest, are more concerned about the flaming hippie bus that came roaring through their town last night. They also might be worried about the "hostile" that just spent 2 days in a jail cell and an afternoon with Dr. Feelgood and then escaped coming back with his buddies.
As far as Juliet being in the infirmary with Ben, I assume at some point after she cut Ethan out of his wife's womb, Horace asked where she learned to do that. Some story was probably cooked up and it was believed because since her and James have shown up, all they've done is save lives and help out.

Kate and Roger's conversation about being stuck into jobs was probably a way to help explain this.

Loved how they mirrored Old Ben's tumor surgery with the scene. The music is the same.

Kate and Roger's conversation about being stuck into jobs was probably a way to help explain this.

Loved how they mirrored Old Ben's tumor surgery with the scene. The music is the same.
I don't think that Roger would have qualified for anything other than a workman.

Edited for emphasis
The bolded comments are the ones I think are the more important ones because they seem to have accepted that Juliet has medical skills. Why weren't any of the honchos, on particular his ol' friend Horace, sitting with Roger and checking with Juliet??
I believe that Julliet's cover is blown and it could be that James is going to be in the soup as well.

Thanks Guinevere. That's exactly what I'm wondering here. If their cover is blown (i should say WHEN because it certainly will be) they will now be the enemies of both dharma and the hostiles/others.

Thanks Guinevere. That's exactly what I'm wondering here. If their cover is blown (i should say WHEN because it certainly will be) they will now be the enemies of both dharma and the hostiles/others. Bold: The former is clear to me but why the latter? I can see them having problems with them... but enemies? The Hostiles might want the Losties in their fold, no?

I'd forgotten it was only a few days since Ethan's birth. DI hasn't had much time to find out anything on Juliet since the c-section--and I bet, once Horace sobered up, he would have wanted to check to put his mind at ease about his wife's surgeon. I have been thinking that Juliet might have just twisted the truth a bit and said that she got through medical school and dropped out during her residency, so she was educated but not certified to practice. However, this would still run into the problem that she should have records at a medical school somewhere, and once the thread is pulled, the story unravels. Her story is going to unravel anyway, if she tells any DI that she sent Ben to the Hostiles for treatment, because how would she know there was anything more than luck and bandages keeping the Hostiles in good repair? Her best bet is to throw Kate off the back of the sleigh and say it was Kate's idea and she's the infiltrator, but since Juliet is the one who fixed Kate's paperwork, it would still come unraveled fast. Most likely, this whole affair is what moved Jim and Juliet from being allied with the DI more securely than with their former comrades to being allied with the O5 and trying to escape the DI and the 70s.

The DHARMAs' reaction, or lack thereof, surrounding Juliet delivering Ethan was ridiculous. Nobody in the DHARMA Initiative batted an eye. What is the excuse for that one? That they already knew she was a doctor? Well, then, why is she in the motorpool????

That is just the tip of the sloppiness iceberg. How about an unvetted shipwrecked outsider becoming the head of security? And the other two people who are part of the security force? His two unvetted shipwrecked pals. of course. Doesn't seem plausible.

Then we have Jin driving into into Dharma Park Heights and carrying the nearly lifeless body of little Ben out of the VW Microbus. The reaction of the DHARMA people in the background? They are totally oblivious to it. Then the next day there is no buzz or activity around the building where a boy who was shot is being cared for. Very strange in such a small community. This of course made it very easy for Kate to take Ben to the Others. This all stuck me as a little too convenient, like the Lost creatives took a mental holiday.

I'm not a whiner, and I've been anxiously waiting a long time for the Lost story to get into the DHARMA part of the story. But so far I have to say the results have been a little bit on the sloppy side, and the DHARMAs' nonreaction to Juliet delivering Ethan, let alone operating on Ben, is just one more example of this sloppiness.

But the worst sloppiness was reserved for a non-DHARMA scene, when the bounty hunter woman chose to wait until she was in bed with her target to make the grab. That total lack in basic logic was priceless.

I think everyone is overthinking this, Jack, Kate, and Hurley have covers that can be blown. We never saw Juliet claim to be anything so why is everyone talking about her cover being blown? What cover? We have no idea what Julioet has even told them about her in 3 years. As far as looking into her medical background for records, we have not been shown who has access to the outside world to even do that and why would they. If she told them she could deliver babies on day one why can't she work on cars? It's not like there is going to be a baby born on the island everyday so what the hell would she be doing all day? Some people spend so much time looking for errors in the show that they find them even when there is nothing there.

Another thing: Will Radzinsky put two and two together and realize that when Sayid was drugged he mentioned an airplane, presumably the same one that Jin was all fussy about?

Why is their cover blown? She's a doctor. So what? She's in the motor pool because DHARMA put her there. She didn't just appear there. And why would the honchos be watching over the surgery? Are they going to know if she's doing something wrong? If so, why aren't they doing the surgery?

DHARMA is well aware that these few people showed up under mysterious circumstances, but they've proven their worth over three years. They haven't had reason to mistrust them in that time -- they let Sawyer be freaking head of security, for crying out loud. Security! The Rescuers may change that, but in the meantime, I didn't blink at the Juliet situation.

One of the major points coming out of many of these threads is this- we don't know WHAT happened during those three years Sawyer, Juliet, Jin and Miles were with Dharma. We can only ASSUME from what we have been shown since the O5 came back. Many posters are content to wildly assume that "James" and Juliet have become the wise and all knowing secret caretakers of the DI and can do no wrong now. And that's okay.

But it is no more valid that thinking there may be more to the story, because we are working on very limited information.

We know much more about what happened to the O6 in those three years, and basically nothing about the on-island stuff. And the writers are using that ambiguity and allowing us to fill in the gaps with our own conclusions. That might be the perfect setup for a big surprise reveal too.

For all we actually know, Juliet or Sawyer could be sneaking out on a regular basis and reporting back to Richard in return for him not blowing their cover with the DI. Probably not, but again, my point is, many people are building scenarios and assumptions with no actual basis from the writers. That's not wrong, that is what we all come to these boards to discuss, but we should guard against digging in our heels on our pet theories of what James, Juliet, Miles and Jin did during that time because we simply don't know for sure until we are shown or told.

We don't know how Sawyer got to be head of security, what story they told about Juliet and her skills, when they became an "item". They may have left on the sub for Dharma "vetting" and come back during that time for all we actually know.

I for one, find it extremely interesting that given the extreme suspicion of the DI leadership, that Juliet is given basically free reign to decide if she wants to be a doctor on any given day or if she wants to be in the motorpool. With the limited resouces of being on an Island and the information we have been given on the availability of the sub, why would you allow your back up doctor to work in the motorpool where she could easily injure her hands or in some other way diminish her value as a medical resource in an emergency? Just because it is what she "wants?" I don't get the impression the other DI recruits are allowed to choose their assignments, in fact, we know that Roger is a "work man" for years and never is allowed to change, despite his obvious dislike for the role. Wouldn't Juliet be more valuable (and safe) in some sort of research or teaching role on the days she isn't covering for the doctor?

BTW, the nurse at the infirmary doesn't act like it is unusual for Juliet to be there or be giving orders.

I for one, find it extremely interesting that given the extreme suspicion of the DI leadership, that Juliet is given basically free reign to decide if she wants to be a doctor on any given day or if she wants to be in the motorpool. With the limited resouces of being on an Island and the information we have been given on the availability of the sub, why would you allow your back up doctor to work in the motorpool where she could easily injure her hands or in some other way diminish her value as a medical resource in an emergency? Just because it is what she "wants?" I don't get the impression the other DI recruits are allowed to choose their assignments, in fact, we know that Roger is a "work man" for years and never is allowed to change, despite his obvious dislike for the role. Wouldn't Juliet be more valuable (and safe) in some sort of research or teaching role on the days she isn't covering for the doctor?
I'd point out that it has only been a day or two since she outed her medical expertise by delivering Ethan.

Good point about the few days' time and I fully realize that. But again, I fall into my own argument of assuming when I say that in three year's time she never had an opportunity to use her medical expertise? Or the necessity-- until Amy gave birth? No one ever had an accident or got sick on an isolated Island? And then a couple of days later Ben is shot and she is given carte blanche to care for him since the Doctor is at another station?

If the sub is gone for months and the Doctor is at the Looking Glass, why can't he come back immediately if he can come back on Friday? If nothing else than just for insurance? Juliet knew where he was. Sawyer had to ask HER where the doctor was.

Maybe Juliet said that to Sawyer so she could be the one working on Ben and manipulate Jack into a position where he would have to out himself as a surgeon? And why wouldn't LaFleur as head of security know where the doctor was anyway? Or be in charge of contacing him? There must be protocols for who calls whom in an emergency, Horace was speaking of security assignments right after the bus crashed into the house.

I think Juliet may be manipulating events so that they turn out a certain way. If whatever happened happened, she knows Ben can't die. Yet she singlehandedly orchestrates a belief that Jack is the only one who can save him, when we have been told time and time again that the past can't change. And then confronts him indignant that he didn't help her, but she knew Ben couldn't die, and that events would happen the way they were meant to happen. Why the guilt trip on Jack if she knew it was all preordained anyway? THAT is a good question.

We have no body else's word that Ben needed more surgery, just Juliet's. She created the impression that Jack's intervention was needed. He certainly held up well during all the jostling of being in a Dharma van and being carried overland for being in such a lifethreatening situation.

If Jack helped her, he would be outed as an impostor and probably killed. If he doesn't help, she creates dissension amongst the O5 about his credibility, and his threat to Sawyer's authority (amongst the TT group) is neutralized since he is now the villain she created. Jack was in a no win situation and she knew it.