Just to clear my thoughts on Smokey, here's some things we've learned about it:

(1) Seems reluctant to approach beach.

(2) It appears as small wisps of smoke when moving quickly, builds up to big black smoke cloud, when attacking or scanning, and disperses again when retreating.

(3) It's often associated with rain.

(4) Kate is terrified by it.

(5) Killed the pilot, Eko, Nadine, and one of the mercenaries.

(6) It mostly likes John Locke, and seems to promote him when in form of apparitions.

(7) Locke describes it as the eye of the Island.

(8) Locke sees it as a beautiful bright light, but also as a column of black smoke.

(9) It sometimes stops in front of people emanating bright flashes.

(10) It moves in underground tunnels and comes out of vents.

(11) It really likes uprooting trees.

(12) Monster noise precedes Christian apparitions. (Jack following his father to Caves, Sun & Frank approaching Barracks)

(13) It attacks Locke and Montand in a similar way, trying to pull them down a hole.

(14) Sonic fences and banyan trees act as effective barriers for it.

(15) Danielle calls it a security system protecting the Island.

(16) It mirrors memories of a person when it confronts them. It later manifests itself as someone or something from those memories. This seems to occur in preparation to judge the "scanned" person, or to guide or instruct them.

(17) It has appeared as Yemi, Alex, Medusa spider, and Walt. Maybe as Christian Shephard and Kate's horse (based on Podcast info that those two are "undead" like Yemi, and Yemi is "monster"). Latter two would indicate that it has scanned Kate and Jack.

(18) Wanted to kill Danielle and Alex, if we assume Robert's a monster apparition, too.

(19) Danielle found a way to avoid the monster for 16 years.

(20) Ben summons it by draining a pool of unsavory water, then talking to the sink. The sink's located in a tunnel under a Dharma house which conveniently has a built-in secret access to it.

(21) It has its own altar under the Temple, depicting it and what's probably Anubis. This maybe is the place where it "lives". Some of the few things which seem to be real news to Ben.



My favourite dialogue concerning Smokey:

KATE: Did you see it?

CHARLIE: No. No! But it was right there. We were dead! I was. An-And then Jack came back, and he, he pulled me up. I don't know where he is.



Please feel free to add further things we think we know about the monster, and/or favourite dialogues. You're also welcome to try to merge those assembled pieces into one huge cloud of black smoke.

This is a great idea Calliope, we can see all of Smokey's "traits" in one place, draw conclusions from them, and hopefully figure out more about it

Calliope>
(8) Locke sees it as a beautiful bright light, but also as a column of black smoke.



While this probably was just some form of the monster that Locke saw, I believe that he saw a whole different "entity", and this one is sort of the "opposite" of Smokey.

And: (22) It has (apparently) been around for a very long time.

(23) It makes very strange noises, including one that Rose recognized

it would be a nice twist if the current Locke is smokey and we get a doppleganger
100%
it would be a nice twist if the current Locke is smokey and we get a doppleganger






what did rose notice?

24) It runs away from dynamite blasts (combine this with the sonic fence...maybe sensitive to sound???)

it would be a nice twist if the current Locke is smokey and we get a doppleganger
100%
what did rose notice? REDSHIRT:
From Pilot:

REDSHIRT: It didn't sound like an animal, not exactly.
ROSE: That sound that it made, I keep thinking that there was something really familiar about it.

According to Lostpedia:



Rose who is from the Bronx in New York City, remarked that the sounds were familiar to her.


The producers have confirmed they used the sound of a taxicab receipt printer for that particular sound (that Rose noticed). In the voice-over commentary for "The 23rd Psalm" on the Season 2 DVD, producer Bryan Burk confirmed that one of the Monster's sound effects is the receipt printer from a NYC taxi cab. This was reaffirmed in the May 21, 2007 Official Lost Podcast, but it was clarified that the mythology of the Monster is unrelated to the cabs and was just a matter of sound effects.


That's why I've omitted Rose's comment, although I've always been intrigued by it.


I've also been unsure about Smokey's dynamite phobia, because it could have to do more with physically destroying the vent. But you're right, roger, combined with the sonic fence it could indicate a sensivity to sound.


RAD24, your item (22) It has (apparently) been around for a very long time. is indeed one of the most interesting aspects of Smokey, if true. One of the most irritating, too, because it does seem so much to be part of advanced technology. I can't reconcile its ancient and modern aspects. Same is true of its apparent home, the Temple.



It's also hard to reconcile its mechanical and biological aspects. Its sounds are mostly mechanical, but its behaviour resembles that of an animal of sorts. It's hunting through the jungle. It sneaks up behind Eko, while he's drinking from the stream, then recoils and quickly retreats when he turns and faces up to it. The way it tosses around trees and its victims.


If it's an ancient life-form, why's it sounding like sirens, metal clanking and taxicab printers (city sounds!)?

This is a great idea Calliope, we can see all of Smokey's "traits" in one place, draw conclusions from them, and hopefully figure out more about it



While this probably was just some form of the monster that Locke saw, I believe that he saw a whole different "entity", and this one is sort of the "opposite" of Smokey.

And: (22) It has (apparently) been around for a very long time.

(23) It makes very strange noises, including one that Rose recognized

And (24) when it's judging you it will surround you and then use incredibly cheesy visual effects (like something off a bible on dvd infomercial) to recap events from your past.

The others have no name for it

It judges people

I'm beginning to think that the Smoke Monster's "was" can't be explained. But his "what", "when" and "were". Not necessarily a bad thing, let me elaborate.

"What" was Smokey capable of?
"When" was Smokey created?
"Who" "were" the people/entity/civilization that created it?

Now that I think of it. If they answer these questions (of which some have already been answered or alluded to) then they'll wrap the Smokey mystery up rather nicely.

According to Lostpedia:

It's also hard to reconcile its mechanical and biological aspects. Its sounds are mostly mechanical, but its behaviour resembles that of an animal of sorts. It's hunting through the jungle. It sneaks up behind Eko, while he's drinking from the stream, then recoils and quickly retreats when he turns and faces up to it. The way it tosses around trees and its victims.


If it's an ancient life-form, why's it sounding like sirens, metal clanking and taxicab printers (city sounds!)?

First of all, I think the sensitivity to sound thing is spot on, guys. Good observation.

(Bold added by me.) I always interpreted that scene differently. I feel it snuck up behind Eko in order to kill him, but was scared away by John coming out of the woods across the stream. I feel like it has some sense of awe or wonder or respect for John... I dunno, maybe I'm way off.

Also, it's not just taxicab printers. The very same counting machine that John Locke uses while working at the Box Co. is part of it's amalgam of odd sounds. Very odd stuff.

And finally, I love this thread. Just what we needed, Calliope. :Masterthumbs:

From This Place Is Death:

[There is no monster. It's just a security system that guards the temple, that's all.]

I know you included Rousseau's reference to guarding the island, but I thought that it bears noting Robert said the temple.

Medusa spider
This always bothered me. The spiders being a product of the monster or the monster's doing, I can buy. But the monster transforming into a spider to bite someone just seems overly covert to me. You're a big black smoke monster, you can just slam dudes into trees, why become a spider?

While this probably was just some form of the monster that Locke saw, I believe that he saw a whole different "entity", and this one is sort of the "opposite" of Smokey.
A white smoke monster? I'd considered that in previous seasons when the black/white dichotomy was more prevalent, but I dunno now. I think Locke saw what the monster did in the presence of Juliet. Locke being a "good" person, the monster's reaction to Locke was white light. Juliet is similarly pure, and the monster displayed the same behavior around her.

It sneaks up behind Eko, while he's drinking from the stream, then recoils and quickly retreats when he turns and faces up to it.
This scene stood out to me because it seemed to me as if the monster was really bailing because Locke showed up. Eko looked up at the monster, and it shrinks off, but right after you see Locke show up.

When the monster was stalking Kate/Juliet, after it emitted the bright lights it almost seemed to instantly back off. It wasn't the same kind of calm, nonchalant disappearance it made when it scanned Eko; they depicted it as a swift retreat, like the monster had to get out of there for some reason.

This is just a theory, but I almost thought that the monster backed off from Eko when he was drinking water because Locke showed up. Locke and Juliet both being "white-lighters", the monster had to bail. Maybe it's something like it can't be around an enemy and a "friend" at the same time.



Also, the monster's sensititivy to sund is a good theory, but if it turns out to be true, it'll be vaugely ironic considering how outright loud the monster is.

I love this thread- Smokey is one of my favorite characters/ mysteries on the show!

I'm not sure what it is, but pp touched on this, the sensitivity to sound just doesn't seem right to me. I'm not sure what it is and I have no other theory to offer, but I'm not loving that one.

Personally I find it odd that Ben went to see the monster via a hole UNDER the temple. I don't know how long that holes been there, maybe an earthquake caused it. Anyhoo, when is the earliest we've seen a rogue Smokey sighting?

Anyhoo, when is the earliest we've seen a rogue Smokey sighting?

The earliest we've seen it was 1988 (right?) but the Sonic Weapon Fence and such seem to imply that it existed as early as 74 as well. Plus, if we are to take the hieroglyphs as what they seem, then we're talking 2-3 thousand years old here.

maybe it's a conscious collection of nano-particles from the future. a ultra-high tech entity able to scan the brain patterns and latent memory paths in the brain.

I don't know about the future, Plutarch, but the damn thing is nanites. I've been saying it since 2004. It's the only possible explanation that can account for all of Smokey's properties.

As to who created it, or why, or why it does what it does, I've got nothing.

The producers have said that it's not nano bots. Then again, half of what the producers have said has turned out to be a bunch of crap.

If the Egyptians really encountered the monster then the monster is extremely old. Of course they've introduced time travel, so there's a chance that the Egyptians were in the future, or the monster was from the future and taken back to the distant past.

I personally believe the monster was once human. Some grand event caused a human mind to bind with a powerful electromagnetic field and black particles like iron or volcanic ash, or something along these lines. Whatever the specifics, I think the monster was an emergent phenomenon resultant from the island's unique properties, which is one of the reasons why even Ben or the others don't even have a name for it.

The others have no name for it

It judges people

But does it judge with bias? Is it impartial? Why is the Smoke Chamber where it judges people have it's only entrance blocked off by rock and rubble?

After Ben falls down the hole and stands up. Dark quality to the 'cap. Wasn't this dark watching it...
http://i44.tinypic.com/243os38.jpg

After Ben falls down the hole and takes some steps towards the Smoke Holes. Infront of him is the room, behind him the blocked passage.
http://i41.tinypic.com/jjms7r.jpg


Best shot of complete chamber. I don't notice any other entrances, other than the blocked off passage and the whole Ben made in the ceiling.
http://i41.tinypic.com/9i8v8x.jpg

A dark one, after Ben's visit from Smoke Alex, he looks around the room. Doesn't look like there's any other way in.
http://i41.tinypic.com/8zkx0h.jpg

It makes me wonder, who wanted to block off access to the Smoke Chamber and why did they want that?

To me, either the people responsible really had no idea what the Smoke Monster was and that it laughed at their silly confinement, or that it happened sometime after the last definitive 2004 Smoke Monster sighting that we saw.

Which, even if the second scenerio is the case, it doesn't explain what Frank and Sun heard. It looks like the hallway entrance has been blocked off to that particular room in the outer walls underbelly for a while. It's much easier to see if on a re-watch.

What I'm getting at is; is the smoke monster a rogue agent? Not a new concept, but knowing now this seemingly Judgement Room, where it comes out, has been sealed off, and the fact that we've only seen no old school others (Richard, Widmore, Hawking) try and summon it/use it, only Ben, it makes me wonder what's going on with it.

Seeing as an attempt was made to section off that room, I gotta think that the Smoke Monster, or if there's something in control of it, using it; I gotta think that the intentions behind it's actions aren't good for the Losties. I also find it interesting that Locke disappears from view when the Smoke Monster is set to appear to Ben in both instances.

Personally I find it odd that Ben went to see the monster via a hole UNDER the temple. I don't know how long that holes been there, maybe an earthquake caused it. Anyhoo, when is the earliest we've seen a rogue Smokey sighting?

I found it odd that the room Ben ended up in, to be judged, had it's hallway passage blocked off, and if not for a break in the hall above, he wouldn't have gotten in. See above part of post. :biggrin:

I think the earliest we've seen the smoke monster is in 1988, attacking Montand.

Unless we can count young Ben seeing his mother as the Smoke Monster. Not enough there for anything definitive, but it's certainly possible, knowing the affinity the monster has at becoming other people.

Also, we only saw Ben go to summon it once, to deal with Keamy and the Mercs (and it only ended up killing one of them...) The other times the monster made appearances to the Losties, was it acting from a summoning order, or was it acting on it's own? I think it's an important question. We have it judging people, but who's interests is it acting on? It's own? Are those interests even good?

Smokie disapears before things get manifested, like alex.
If the manifestations are smokie why run away first?
Does locke have an entity inside him that smokie is afraid of?
Almost seems like clark kent syndrome these last episodes between the two of them.

Merch...But does it judge with bias? Is it impartial? Why is the Smoke Chamber where it judges people have it's only entrance blocked off by rock and rubble?

A dark one, after Ben's visit from Smoke Alex, he looks around the room. Doesn't look like there's any other way in.
http://i41.tinypic.com/8zkx0h.jpg

It makes me wonder, who wanted to block off access to the Smoke Chamber and why did they want that?

As always, you've got great questions! I too wondered why and who blocked off this chamber. But ancient Egyptians sealed their tombs. Perhaps the Smoke Monster was dead once? When the Black Rock people arrived maybe their drilling and blasting gave it new life, woke it up or made it mad! LOL!

To me, either the people responsible really had no idea what the Smoke Monster was and that it laughed at their silly confinement..

Maybe they had ceremonially buried it? It has vent holes, so it doesn't need an exit or entrance. Just a human would. So, did they seal someone in or someone out?

What I'm getting at is; is the smoke monster a rogue agent? Not a new concept, but knowing now this seemingly Judgement Room, where it comes out, has been sealed off, and the fact that we've only seen no old school others (Richard, Widmore, Hawking) try and summon it/use it, only Ben, it makes me wonder what's going on with it.

Perhaps someone sealed it off to keep someone else from finding a way to control the Smoke Monster. If you had a weapon this powerful, would you hide it's secrets? Ben said he can summon it, but NOT control it. Ben doesn't know who controls it. So, before Ben came into power with the Others did Widmore summon it? Who summoned it before Widmore. For some reason Richard is never around when the Smoke Monster is. Is Richard the HUMAN manifestation of the Monster and he is trying to keep this a secret?

I also find it interesting that Locke disappears from view when the Smoke Monster is set to appear to Ben in both instances.

Perhaps Locke went to the control room? Perhaps Locke was the one speaking to Ben NOT Alex? So, who did Locke take over the controls from? Richard? This would fit the Wizard of Oz connections.

I think the earliest we've seen the smoke monster is in 1988, attacking Montand.

If the Smoke and ghost like appearances of people are NOT the same.

We have it judging people, but who's interests is it acting on? It's own? Are those interests even good?

From what I've seen, not good.

It looked a little rough shod, the seal job to the chamber, would that be consistent with an eqyptian burial? They were pretty precise in everything they did.

That's a good point about Ben. Assuming he's telling the truth, and it seems likely because the Smoke Monster is erratic at times, can the Smoke Monster even be controled? Who was summoning it before Ben? Before Dharma?

Could Richard and the others have built their temple and the temples outer wall around the area where the Smoke Monster was, sort of using it's natural inclination to protect a certain area on the island to their advantage? Are they allied with the monster? Sort of friendly neighbors?

Could the reason why the chamber entrance got blocked off have to do with the Dharma Initiative trying to co-opt the monster for it's own purposes? Could they have messed with it, tweaked it, just enough where it was no longer as stable or predictable when the others summoned it?

:biggrin: I've got bucket loads of questions. Truck loads.

It's the answers I have a hard time finding.

Really hope Smokey makes an appearance again before the seasons end. Even with out any more additional info, it's just great see trees explode and people running from a cloud of black smoke :cool:

..:biggrin: I've got bucket loads of questions. Truck loads.

It's the answers I have a hard time finding.

Really hope Smokey makes an appearance again before the seasons end. Even with out any more additional info, it's just great see trees explode and people running from a cloud of black smoke :cool:

LOL! Yep! Me, too! Using the clues we've seen so far have not produced solid answers. Just some good guesses. I'm always waiting for that unexpected twist. Re-watching an episode can bring even more questions I missed the first time!

Oh, I love things that go bomb! I agree Smokey rocks! I have noticed a pattern that certain people appear and Smokey disappears. Ben is NOT one of those. Which makes me conclude that Ben is more a victim here than a leader.

Smokey can break apart, from what we've seen, right? Can he project himself as more than one person at a time? If Dead is Dead, than who are these people walking around the Island, who we know have died? Locke told Sun, I'm the same person I've always been. Is he? Is he really?

My vote is no. The Old Locke didn't know where the Temple was or that the monster had a room underneath it.

That of course, is subject to change, depending on what happens in the next new episode. ;)

During what we've seen so far of the Seventies, Smokey is conspicuous by its absence. There's Sayid running through the jungle. No Smokey. Dharma folks working in Hostile territory. No Smokey. Two versions of Miles should have Smokey throwing fits.

It looks like it's still confined to the underground chamber in the Temple in that time. It is around, alive and kicking (around bodies) in 1988. So I suspect the Incident might have something to do with setting it free. Maybe Smokey's just like the polar bears - roaming free after the Incident, wreaking chaos. Pulling people into holes and caves. Biting off arms, I bet :biggrin:.

Smokey in the wild. Smokey zombies alarm! I envision people desparately plugging vents and demolishing entrances.

Merch, I've been thinking about Smokey's "character", too - is it benevolent or malevolent? The question is even harder to answer if we assume it is controlled by something/someone else. As far as I can tell, it might have served an orderly function in its chamber under the Temple. I don't think it had any business "judging" Eko, Nadine, or the pilot.

It is a tough question, especially now that we're seeing a bit more on it's origins.

I agree, I don't see a rhyme or reason for the Monster's actions either. It had to have some function that the others/natives found useful/controllable if it had it's own chamber carved out. It had to be corrupted someway, by Dharma, the incident, something. Or it just went rogue on it's own.

I lean towards it not being as omnipent as it may seem. Ben was only judged on what he felt guilty about, and that judgement, if we're to believe Widmore when he said the island wanted Alex dead, didn't view Ben's action as bad.

From the view point of the judger (Smokey, possible a tool the island uses) Ben's actions brought about a circumstance that may have been wanted by the island. Potentially. If we're to believe Widmore. It's amazing with one season practically left, how hard it still is to pin down when someone is lying and what their motivations are.

Monster included.

If the Egyptians really encountered the monster then the monster is extremely old. Of course they've introduced time travel, so there's a chance that the Egyptians were in the future, or the monster was from the future and taken back to the distant past.

I personally believe the monster was once human. Some grand event caused a human mind to bind with a powerful electromagnetic field and black particles like iron or volcanic ash, or something along these lines. Whatever the specifics, I think the monster was an emergent phenomenon resultant from the island's unique properties, which is one of the reasons why even Ben or the others don't even have a name for it.

Exactly something I have been saying as well. I think the human part of smokie still exists in a less than perfect form. The other part of smokie is Jacob. I have been posting this theory for a while now and not too many people understand what I mean. And the ash that surrounds Jacobs cabin? Could that be some sort of fine metallic shavings. Perhaps it has the same polarization as smokie and therefore repels it? I think smokie arrived with the exotic matter on the island. Or, it was something that formed naturally in this mirror matter universe. I have also said that smokie is the essence that Dr. Chang spoke of in the 2008 comic con video, when he said time IS the essence. That can be taken literally and you can theorize that smokie is the essence of time if you think of essence as an entity or being. We are all judged by time eventually.

... Or, it was something that formed naturally in this mirror matter universe. I have also said that smokie is the essence that Dr. Chang spoke of in the 2008 comic con video, when he said time IS the essence. That can be taken literally and you can theorize that smokie is the essence of time if you think of essence as an entity or being. We are all judged by time eventually.

I really like THIS idea! I also read something where Tesla was experimenting with electrical currents in our eyes. Tesla said that eventually it will be possible to read the electrical impulses in our brains through the eyes. I added my Tesla theory in an old thread LONG ago. Time really is the essence.. LOL!

So, Smokey is either an entity of its own or a tool SOMEONE is using and controlling. We now know it isn't Ben because he can only summon it. It needs to be one of the Others, as the Others don't live behind a sonic fence. They don't seem to fear Smokey at all. Why not? Is it because they are all dead or Smokey's servants?

I really like THIS idea! I also read something where Tesla was experimenting with electrical currents in our eyes. Tesla said that eventually it will be possible to read the electrical impulses in our brains through the eyes. I added my Tesla theory in an old thread LONG ago. Time really is the essence.. LOL!

So, Smokey is either an entity of its own or a tool SOMEONE is using and controlling. We now know it isn't Ben because he can only summon it. It needs to be one of the Others, as the Others don't live behind a sonic fence. They don't seem to fear Smokey at all. Why not? Is it because they are all dead or Smokey's servants?

I'm not sure if I would say the Others are all dead but they do seem to have a simbiotic type relationship with smokie. Their leader can summon it and it will carry out their wishes. As when Ben called upon it to get Keamy, et al. I wonder if smokie has a sensitivity like a dog in hearing? A mere trickle of water is heard? What if it's not that it hears it but rather it feels it. It feels the disturbance in the air on a molecular level, as is described in the Butterfly Effect of the Chaos Theory. Maybe that's why it is so sensative to sonic waves. I don't knlow but I think I am going to check into a few ideas now.

[QUOTE=Notsolost42;2165625... I don't knlow but I think I am going to check into a few ideas now.[/QUOTE]

Don't you love how LOST gets you thinking? :biggrin: I wish I had time to watch the FRINGE, too. I'll have to catch up on the story when it comes out in DVD.
I'm really hoping that the DVD's for LOST come out with all the little details they didn't have time to address in the Show, including a back story for Smokey. Not sure we will see one on TV.

Don't you love how LOST gets you thinking? :biggrin: I wish I had time to watch the FRINGE, too. I'll have to catch up on the story when it comes out in DVD.
I'm really hoping that the DVD's for LOST come out with all the little details they didn't have time to address in the Show, including a back story for Smokey. Not sure we will see one on TV.

I am sure we'll get an thorough explaination of smokie in the show! lol. Thd DVD's have some small extras like deleted scenes, etc. No earth shattering information though. The only thing I found is that with the DVD I can go through frame by frame to really exaine the scene. That was how I found eleven embedded photos in smokie when it surrounded Eko and they were nose to nose the first time. They were all photos of things from Eko's memories. I am sure there must be a bunch of old threads about it.

I was thinking of these questions now. Smokie was repelled by the sonic fence. Sonic waves are simply a frequency and it can be used for pest control They make the sonic noise something that is very uncomfortable for the critters. I was thinking that was the same reason smokie was repelled. That means that smokie has terrific "hearing" which may turn out not to be hearing as we know, but rather hearing as in the vibrations of the molecules around it. I was thinking that may be why just a few drips of water were enough to summon it from Ben. The sound was enough to disturb the atmosphere around smokie and get its attention. I don't know how this all fits if smokie is actually a physical presence of time, but it might. More thought and research are definitly required! lol. I am going to make a list of all of smokies attributes. For instance, electrical charge, ability to seperate and come together again, etc. Looking at a list like that may help but I'm not sure! If you have any suggestions please let me know.