Vote and contribute, if you will.

Meh, why not? Liven things up a bit.

I think ultimately they WILL detonate Jughead, but it wont be this season, even though they are alluding to the fact that they might.

I think they need to go back in time via Faradays Time Machine contaption and detonate the H-Bomb in the 50's. Maybe blow up the magnetic abnomality before it can screw things up.

Stepping back from the characters & story and looking at it from a fan's perspective, I kind of hope they don't. It will seem like a letdown if this show which has been so masterfully made to keep us guessing about the mysteries and goings-on of the Island uses a worn-out plot trick to negate everything we have been so vested in for the last 5 years.

Plus I always thought that Jughead was probably converted into the "Fail Safe" device.

Stepping back from the characters & story and looking at it from a fan's perspective, I kind of hope they don't. It will seem like a letdown if this show which has been so masterfully made to keep us guessing about the mysteries and goings-on of the Island uses a worn-out plot trick to negate everything we have been so vested in for the last 5 years.

Plus I always thought that Jughead was probably converted into the "Fail Safe" device.
I'm guessing that the bomb won't go off. Since this is a pure guess, based on absolutely nothing but my own limited imagination, I don't need to Spoiler-Font this. But I think that the way this will play out is that Jack will figure out how to get the thing to detonate, and there will be some huge dramatic activity associated with this, just as there was when we saw the Swan finally go ballistic and Desmond keyed the fail safe. But at the very last second on the countdown before the bomb goes off (and there HAS to be some kind of countdown clock - right?), that the big anticipated Incident will occur, and the huge release of electromagnetic energy will destroy the hydrogen bomb (among other things), which will make it so that it can no longer be exploded.

Just a hunch...

I think they should bury it under the Swan and Desmond should detonate it years later with the failsafe key when Locke messes things up.

I cannot think of any scenario in which detonating a Hydrogen bomb would be a good thing.

Wouldn't it be cool if they could send it to the future or past to detonate, a la Stargate???

Pure insanity, one of my favority theories, to even think of it after knowing what we now know about A bombs, etc. Where are the Losties going to get away from it and most importantly HOW are they going to detonate it? I say bring Keamy back! How is the hatch going to be there in 2004 if it blows up in 1977? Far away is not far enough. The writers would not really let them do that would they? Nahhh, Jughead is a dud!

Um, is it not occurring to anyone that the idea behind all this doesn't make any sense? All the scientific pretext for the 2nd to last climax to be predicated on such weak ground would be disappointing; from a scientifically minded fan's point of view, anyway. I've got to think there's something better, but there going off of the reputation they earned in the first four seasons, not this one.....so far.

Stepping back from the characters & story and looking at it from a fan's perspective, I kind of hope they don't. It will seem like a letdown if this show which has been so masterfully made to keep us guessing about the mysteries and goings-on of the Island uses a worn-out plot trick to negate everything we have been so vested in for the last 5 years.

Plus I always thought that Jughead was probably converted into the "Fail Safe" device.


Well, even if they do detonate it, there's nothing to say that it will do what Faraday said it would do.

Um, is it not occurring to anyone that the idea behind all this doesn't make any sense? All the scientific pretext for the 2nd to last climax to be predicated on such weak ground would be disappointing; from a scientifically minded fan's point of view, anyway. I've got to think there's something better, but there going off of the reputation they earned in the first four seasons, not this one.....so far.

I don't want the bomb to go off, but I am giving TPTB the benefit of the doubt because we have not seen what happens after the bomb. :confused: We can't critique what we have not seen yet. :lipsseal:

Besides the fact that it would blow up the island and the losties, sure why not?

Not likely. The H-Bomb is the con. It's the device that the writer's want us to concentrate on so they can surprise us in the finale. In my opinion, the bomb won't go off, and won't be "the story" in the finale. Something far more bizarre awaits us in the conclusion.

I think they will, but coming at it from the perspective of "would I do it if in the same situation?" the answer is a Will Smith-esque, "Ah hellllllllll naw!!!"

Not likely. The H-Bomb is the con. It's the device that the writer's want us to concentrate on so they can surprise us in the finale. In my opinion, the bomb won't go off, and won't be "the story" in the finale. Something far more bizarre awaits us in the conclusion.


I say...... if you want something far more bizarre to await us in the conclusion, then I think we need to see some sort of aircraft or sea vessel crash land into the island at a moment that will suprise everyone.
Jacob will be killed and someone that we know (but dont expect) will take over as supreme being on the island.

I think they should. If I were on the Island I wouldn't miss such a chance.

Not likely. The H-Bomb is the con. It's the device that the writer's want us to concentrate on so they can surprise us in the finale. In my opinion, the bomb won't go off, and won't be "the story" in the finale. Something far more bizarre awaits us in the conclusion.

This is what I've been thinking and I hope it's true. I don't remember any finale where they've really told us what's going to happen episodes before hand...

If you go to the past to which you've been specifically invited for some reason would you just watch the history play itself? If that's the way to change it then I would certainly try it.

Not likely. The H-Bomb is the con. It's the device that the writer's want us to concentrate on so they can surprise us in the finale. In my opinion, the bomb won't go off, and won't be "the story" in the finale. Something far more bizarre awaits us in the conclusion.

I hope this is true. I'll be terribly disappointed if the bomb is detonated and flight 815 lands safely in Los Angeles. It's the number one thing I would least like to happen, which, in my experience, means it probably will. :frown:

If you go to the past to which you've been specifically invited for some reason would you just watch the history play itself? If that's the way to change it then I would certainly try it.
SHEESH, remind me not to invite you to the past if I have any hydrogen bombs lying around! ;)

One must not put a loaded rifle on the stage if no one is thinking of firing it.

--Anton Chekhov (or was it Pavel?)

SHEESH, remind me not to invite you to the past if I have any hydrogen bombs lying around! ;)

Don't worry. I'm a futurist :biggrin: Hey doesn't changing the past sound more exciting than Jack saying "Ok. Incident will happen in 6 hours. How about a round of poker?" Alternatively they could play a 2009 game on the PSP Jack brought with him. Sure detonating an H-bomb seems too much but we're talking about changing history with a bomb! Given the writers addiction of explosive use in finales what would be your preference for detonation? a C-4? It couldn't even kill Jin :biggrin:

Where are the Losties going to get away from it and most importantly HOW are they going to detonate it?Besides the fact that it would blow up the island and the losties, sure why not?
I think that this is a point that many people are misunderstanding. If Jack detonates the hydrogen bomb, and if it removes the possibility of the Swan Incident, then this will change the course of future events such that the Losties will not have even landed on the Island in the first place.

So, in other words, if they DO detonate the hydrogen bomb, according to the theory that Daniel was pushing, then they won't be killed by it, because they'll have never been there in the first place.

Or wait, they will be killed by it, but then immediately they'll somehow zap back into Flight 815 as it safely makes its way to Los Angeles in 2004.

So, in other words, Jack and Sayid are not concerned about getting away from the bomb because they believe they'll end up back on Flight 815 if it goes off.

Having said that, I think that the whole thing is ridiculous, and that the past cannot be altered - "What happens happens".

I'm not sure what is supposed to be accomplished by detonating the bomb. Destroy the island and everything on it? Why does Daniel care if 815 crashes or not? To the point that he'd be willing to destroy the island and kill it's inhabitants? It makes no sense. Is the intent to drop the bomb down the Swan shaft?

I said yes, just because it'd be cool to see and I'd like to see the writers squirm to explain how the Island and the Others miraculously survived, since if they stop 815 from crashing they could have never gone back to blow up the bomb in the first place. That plane has to crash!

Whatever happened, happened. Mostly.

I don't think the H-bomb will be detonated. I'm a firm believer in WHH and I think we have enough evidence to show that it wasn't detonated.

But if we ignore that and just think on the idea of should they or not, well... I think it all comes back to the idea, maybe even the philosophy, of whether or not one should change the past/future. It's too much playing god for me to be comfortable with it.

Sure, Jack can see his immediate surroundings and past but he has no idea at all about the rest of the world and the eventual resulting history that will come from making that change. Things just might end up a hell of alot worse should that small change be made and the ripple effect branches out to the rest of the world.

I think feeling righteous about saving 200 on the crashed flight is too presumptive of things. It's a conclusion that simply can't be reached by one human with so little information.

So all that to say, hell no! They should not detonate the bomb!


But I gotta admit, I love the idea of a game of chicken on a cosmic level! You either blink out of that particular existance because it never happened, or you're fried in an H-bomb blast! Of course it's a paradox, but I can't think of a grander scale for a game of chicken! :laughing:

Apologies in advance if I should've spoiler-fonted any of this but all of the opinion below is just my own thoughts & guesswork & judging by how good I've been previously at guessing what big stuff will happen next I'll be once again very wrong!

My guess is that even if they actually try to go through with it & attempt to set the nuclear warhead off the detonation device will fail or something like that. I agree with those of you that see Jughead as a diversionary device in the plot too, there will probably be bigger twists elsewhere in the finale & I'd find it quite ironic that the traditional season finale big explosion isn't the obvious hulking great nuclear bomb under the Island! Maybe jughead doesn't go off but the plutonium (or uranium or whatever radioactive isotope it is in there) is compromised in some way which leads to a leak of nuclear material into the Island itself which helps lead to the Incident & such knock-on effects as fertility problems?

Ooh 100th post!

I voted no, but for the reason that Jack has for going through with it. I think it already happened and nothing will be changed.

Am I wrong or is there a paradox in play here?

Jack wants to detonate the bomb, whereby then Desmond's Swan incident will never had occurred, so then the Losties on the Oceanic 815 will have landed safely in Los Angeles. Fair enough.

But if that happens then Jack will have never had ended up on the Island in 1977 to detonate the bomb in the first place.

What am I missing here?

My voting to this poll possibly hinges on the answer to this query, so please help!!!

Am I wrong or is there a paradox in play here?
Yes, there is deffinately a paradox. It's pretty much the same as Sayid's paradox of trying to kill the younger Ben. If he had succeeded he would have erased his motivation for doing it in the first place.

Yeah, so what happened happened. But I'm still trying to figure out about how the rust on the compass comes and goes....:confused:

So far, it seems that the theory of 'whatever happened, happened' has held true given what we've seen. A young Ben can't be killed and Daniel not preventing (at least up to now) the Incident from happening are two prevalent examples.
So if WHH continues to hold true, then maybe we already have our answer and the H-bomb is never detonated. Jack, Sayid, Eloise, and Richard were unsuccessful in doing whatever it is they are intending to do with the bomb.

My guess is that the Incident will occur (as WHH dictates) and that whatever this Incident is, it is not due to an H-Bomb going off but related more towards DHARMA penetrating that electromagnetic source at the Swan station and releasing all of that energy in a spectacular, perhaps seemingly cataclysmic event. And knowing what we know of these kinds of electromagnetic surges, maybe another time flash will occur and perhaps this will be the mechanism by which our Losties who have been displaced in time are finally thrown back into their rightful/current place in time. (I guess kind of a 'course-correction' if you will). However this pans out, this might seem to look like all the 1977 losties 'died' as Richard Alpert had observed it back then when in actuality they may very well have just 'flashed out' of the 70's. (How many of us wished we could have done that at the time :rolleyes: ... but I digress..)

Whereupon, once the 1977 Losties merge back with our current-time Losties, they will find themselves now smack dab into this anticipated war between the Others and the faction represented by Bram and Ilana (which I believe to be the 'reconstituted' DHARMA Initiative). With the H-bomb perhaps still buried somewhere under the DHARMA village, maybe it will again come back into play for this upcoming war?

But then again, who knows?

Although the comments about what happened happened are welcome and interesting, I do want to reiterate that the key word in the poll question is "SHOULD". In other words, the emphasis is not so much on what will happen IF Jack detonates the bomb, but rather, SHOULD he detonate the bomb.

This involves a bit of a moral or ethical issue. :)

Although the comments about what happened happened are welcome and interesting, I do want to reiterate that the key word in the poll question is "SHOULD". In other words, the emphasis is not so much on what will happen IF Jack detonates the bomb, but rather, SHOULD he detonate the bomb.

This involves a bit of a moral or ethical issue. :)
Haha, ok. Sorry for going off on a tangent with my response.
I think if Daniel were alive and well, I wouldn't have any problems if it was him that detonated the H-bomb - because I'm presuming he knows what he's doing and what precisely needs to be done with the bomb (ie. placement and the like).

As for Jack, heck no. Unless he's a speed reader and can get through Daniel's Cliffs Notes on "how to properly detonate an H-Bomb and survive the blast", I don't think Jack should do it. Haha, but I'm only approaching the question from a technical sense.

I guess Kate kind of summed it up well when she said, "Since when did shooting kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs become okay?" She has a point in that Sayid and Jack acted in ways that were selfish as it related to the Ben shooting incident, yet nothing really changed - except maybe the fact that there are darker sides to Sayid and Jack that are now revealed and concerning in regards to their character.

I suppose if I were in particularly the same shoes as either Jack or Sayid, I would think twice about detonating the hydrogen bomb, even if it's just to try and redeem myself in my own mind that I am not as 'bad' in character as Kate appears to think.
Come to think of it, a better compromise would be not so much to detonate the hydrogen bomb, but to just quickly acquire it and then make it known to DHARMA that you possess it and that you will threaten its detonation unless they suspended further drilling at the Swan station.

I suppose it would be one way of hopefully averting the Incident.

WHH period

We know the future, so we can say certain what will not happen. The incident will happen. We just are seeing now what happened in the PAST. It has already happened and we know the outcome.

WHH period

We know the future, so we can say certain what will not happen. The incident will happen. We just are seeing now what happened in the PAST. It has already happened and we know the outcome.


you forget, one of the frames in the Room 23 brainwashing video said "we are the cause of our own suffering". whatever happened, happened, but if you are from the future, you still have free will like everyone else and can accidently put yourself into a paradox if you do something stupid.

Flight 815 crashing was the course correction.

Everyone from the future who is trying to fix things is making the situation worse by doing stupid things. They all need to sit back, have some sandwiches with garlic mayonaise and stare at their hands. That's their best bet.

Or as the Tao Teh Cheng says.....dont fight the currents, become one with the stream. Like in season 1 when Kate was just standing on the beach sinking. Letting the sea take sand out from under her.

Haha, ok. Sorry for going off on a tangent with my response.
Hey, actually you were completely fine, Hermit. I just was trying to gently nudge the discussion into a different direction, which I think hasn't really been fully explored yet in any other thread - namely: the whole ethical aspect of deciding to detonate the hydrogen bomb. But this may be a little too involved and complicated to get into.

I guess Kate kind of summed it up well when she said, "Since when did shooting kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs become okay?"
This is it precisely! I had to pinch myself because I was in the awkward position of actually agreeing with one of Kate's statements! She seems to be so much more level headed ever since she spent three years as a mommy. And NOTHING makes a person realize just how important and precious every living person's life is than being a mommy, in my opinion. The thought of just casually blowing up the Island with a hydrogen bomb made Kate just walk away from Jack and the whole thing, even though she had a gun aimed at her back. That took a LOT of guts on her part.

Now, on the other hand, Jack is trying to save all the lives of all those people who have been killed ever since Flight 815 started breaking up in the sky over the Island.

It's fascinating to me: this whole concept that both Kate AND Jack are operating out of what they see is an ethical stance on saving peoples' lives.

They all need to sit back, have some sandwiches with garlic mayonaise and stare at their hands.

Typical Saturday night in the Pythagoras household right there.


Originally Posted by HERMIT
I guess Kate kind of summed it up well when she said, "Since when did shooting kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs become okay?" This is it precisely! I had to pinch myself because I was in the awkward position of actually agreeing with one of Kate's statements! She seems to be so much more level headed ever since she spent three years as a mommy. And NOTHING makes a person realize just how important and precious every living person's life is than being a mommy, in my opinion. The thought of just casually blowing up the Island with a hydrogen bomb made Kate just walk away from Jack and the whole thing, even though she had a gun aimed at her back. That took a LOT of guts on her part.
Exactly. Way to go Kate!

The executive branch may still be up for grabs, but I nominate Kate to the legislative branch of the Island Government. The first laws can be no shooting kids and no blowing up the island with H-bombs.

Going back off topic again. Sorry. I've been in the the camp of WHH for the majority of this season. But the more that I think about the season as a whole I begin to believe they are going to change soemthing, they have to. My reasoning is that if they don't change anything and just zap back to the future in the finale than Season 5 has been nothing but a glorified flashback. It's way too late in the game for that imo.

Hey, actually you were completely fine, Hermit. I just was trying to gently nudge the discussion into a different direction, which I think hasn't really been fully explored yet in any other thread - namely: the whole ethical aspect of deciding to detonate the hydrogen bomb. But this may be a little too involved and complicated to get into.


This is it precisely! I had to pinch myself because I was in the awkward position of actually agreeing with one of Kate's statements! She seems to be so much more level headed ever since she spent three years as a mommy. And NOTHING makes a person realize just how important and precious every living person's life is than being a mommy, in my opinion. The thought of just casually blowing up the Island with a hydrogen bomb made Kate just walk away from Jack and the whole thing, even though she had a gun aimed at her back. That took a LOT of guts on her part.

Now, on the other hand, Jack is trying to save all the lives of all those people who have been killed ever since Flight 815 started breaking up in the sky over the Island.

It's fascinating to me: this whole concept that both Kate AND Jack are operating out of what they see is an ethical stance on saving peoples' lives.


I don't think ethics have a whole lot to do with it.

Kate has to stay on the island forever or go to jail for jumping probation and she is royally issed off and hurt at Jack because of his flip remark about the MISERY. Jack is now seeing the world through Johns rose colored glasses, so to speak and wants everything to be RIGHT, not necessarily right but right to him. He wants a do over for his whole life. If everything goes the way it is SUPPOSE to, according to what Jack believes, then JACK should use the bomb, a catch 22 prop. but thats going to iss off some other people Not all of them want do overs and who's to say that life after the bomb and after the island will be any better than it was, my guess, IF they get off the island life is going to be much worse and all of them will be begging to go back. Jack is being the boss again just as he was previously. Remember Ben told Jack 'if you leave then everybody on this island will die' using Jacks guilt against him. Jack works by emotion, guilt and a self serving attitude. He doesn't help people because he wants to, he does it because he is driven by self loathing. When he truly does one thing for someone else than he will be the real hero. John was not self serving and things worked out the same for him as for Jack, they are on the same island facing the same problems only in reverse. Some people were actually enjoying their new lives, going with the flow, John messed that up and Jack followed the leader. Should they explode the bomb? Depends on who you ask:confused:

No, they should not detonate the bomb.

Jack is looking only at the pros of detonating it - everyone who died on the island would still be alive with the plane landing in LAX.

The main problem with this is (beyond the obvious of Kate going to prison, Locke still being paralyzed, Sawyer remaining a con-man, etc) is the chain reaction of events that would follow in the real world because the place landed safely. A car accident caused by a 815 survivor, killing a family whose son might have invented a cure for cancer. You cannot predict the domino effect you would unleash.

If you could go back in time and kill Hitler, would it be a good plan? Only if you look at the short term ramifications. If you could go back and do it, the result would affect the lives of untold millions. Many millions of people alive today may have never existed. Be careful what you wish for.

If people were MEANT to die in the plane crash, along with all the people on the Island who've died, wouldn't the universe just course correct and kill them all anyway? When your numbers up, your numbers up, as we saw with Charlie and Desmond.
But then, I guess Jack doesn't know about all that, and if he did, he probably wouldn't believe it.

I don't think Jack should detonate the bomb. It's just a silly thing to do.

But the more that I think about the season as a whole I begin to believe they are going to change soemthing, they have to. My reasoning is that if they don't change anything and just zap back to the future in the finale than Season 5 has been nothing but a glorified flashback. It's way too late in the game for that imo.
It has been mostly flashback. When they haven't shown the "30 years earlier/later" card, they have usually played the standard flashback WHOOSH sound when they go back and forth.

ok, I voted yes, because I'm dying (no pun intended) to see what happens, because I suspect that Dan is a bit off in his calculations. However, with the questions of, "Should Jack," well, no. His guilt has gotten the better of him. It's a rediculous proposition. When has detonating an atomic device EVER been a good idea? For that matter, when has listening to Jack during a season finale ever turned out to be a good idea.?

Hell Yes! :biggrin: providing 'they' is Jack.

I'm all scootched up on the crazy couch here to make room for him. I always appreciated John's touch with an impromptu explosion, unforeseen implosion or some thoughtfully placed C4 - so I wouldn't deny Jack the same opportunity for lunacy.

I'm patient though;

Season 6 would be soon enough for me - as long as thwarted plans Jack doesn't start shouting in his frustration. :rolleyes: I don't want to go down that path again thank you very much.