I think the "two sides, one light, one dark" thing finally makes some sense. I knew Locke wasn't really Locke, but I didn't expect his body to be in the box.

.So the whole show is about an eternal feud between light and dark. Good Vs Evil. Smokey -vs- Jacob. But who are the good guys, and who is the bad guys?

The smoke monster can only take the form of someone who has died. Which reminds me of "The First Evil", from BTVS. We assume that Smokey is evil..but can we be sure that he is?

We assume that Jacob is good, but can we be sure?

So pick a side, team Smokey or Team Jacob? Which one is light and which one is dark? give an example as to why you feel that way

Smokey is dark as illustrated by the dark shirt.
Jacob is light as illustrated by the light shirt.

Smokey is dark as illustrated by the dark shirt.
Jacob is light as illustrated by the light shirt.

That's my thinking too, Jacob is good and Smokey/guy in black are bad.

It would also appear that Widmore is a good guy since he didn't want Locke to be killed. I think Widmore is on Jacob's side.

Jacob is def. the good guy. His brother? wanted to murder him!!
But why ?!?!?!?!

The show ended with white - looking up for the good side?

What is BTVS? Why do people constantly think that we'll automatically know what these GDFLASTFSF (two cuss words in that one)?

I'm beginning to think that you're right about the man in black being Smokey. Is it possible that he was imprisoned in the temple and the "Incident" set him free once again?

Like you mentioned, we know that Smokey can shape shift into the dead on the island, so bringing Locke's dead body to the island may have doomed them all.

Interesting that it seemed that Jacob WANTED Locke's dead body brought back.

We still don't know what's in the guitar case that Hurley brought back with him... I think we'll be seeing that early next season (God, that's next year, huh?)

Man, this is going to be a painful hiatus.

At least we'll have Flashforward to keep us somewhat content.

-- J

Smokey is dark as illustrated by the dark shirt.
Jacob is light as illustrated by the light shirt.

That an obvious assumption. Too obvious for lost. We assume that Jacob is the good guy. Ben tell us that Jacob is good, but I with pilot, if they have to state it, it's probably not true.

Think about Jacob's list. Kate,Sawyer, Ana and Eko was all on the list. Jack wasn't on the list. All of them were murderers. According to Ben, Jacob wanted Locke to kill his father,like Ben had kill his father.


Now Think about who Smokey had killed. He killed Eko. Eko who was a drug lord, and a ruthless murderer. Jacob as Christian Sherpard, help Jack to find water.

OH!!!!

So *Smokey* is Jacob's nemesis???

Somewhow I missed that obvious element of tonight's episode. Shoot.

Two sides... one is light, one is dark... yes this does finally make sense in some regard. I agree with other posters here.... Smokey is most likely the black-shirted man on the beach with Jacob at the beginning of the episode.

Whether the good guys are represented by white and the bad guys are black (or vice versa) isn't really clear quite yet, at least to me. However, in the past when Smokey has engaged someone, he often takes the form of a dead loved one, and in two distinct cases he poses a challenge to them: Confess your sins. Eko refused to confess... he blatantly stood there and said "I ask for no forgiveness." He was proud for having murdered that man to save his little brother. Later, Ben is confronted by Alex's spectre and begs forgiveness for his sins.... and he is spared! I find that very intriguing,

However, I also wanna toss out some other "black and white" clues from earlier seasons....

When Jack and Kate escape from the bee swarm in season 1, they discover two skeletal bodies, and a small leather pouch containing two stones. One stone is white, the other is black. "Our very own Adam and Eve," Locke remarks sagely.

When Claire is being stalked by Ethan, she has a nightmare and envisions herself (no longer pregnant) and wandering through the jungles where she finds Locke sharpening a stick. He utters, "You gave him up..." Suddenly the apparition of Locke looks up. One of his eyes is completely black, the other is pure white. "Now we all pay the price," he tells her.

It seems there are very strong Biblical connections to the ongoing story in LOST. Whether Smokey is the good guy or bad guy, I do not know. But one thing is for certain... I will be riveted to my TV for Season 6, in a way I haven't been riveted since the first season.

That an obvious assumption. Too obvious for lost. We assume that Jacob is the good guy. Ben tell us that Jacob is good, but I with pilot, if they have to state it, it's probably not true.

Think about Jacob's list. Kate,Sawyer, Ana and Eko was all on the list. Jack wasn't on the list. All of them were murderers. According to Ben, Jacob wanted Locke to kill his father,like Ben had kill his father.


Now Think about who Smokey had killed. He killed Eko. Eko who was a drug lord, and a ruthless murderer. Jacob as Christian Sherpard, help Jack to find water.

Kate is definitely not on Jacob's list:


MIKHAIL: You would not understand.
KATE: Try me.
MIKHAIL: I misspoke. What I meant to say is you are not capable of understanding.
KATE: And why am I not capable?
SAYID: Kate.
MIKHAIL: Because you are not on the list.
KATE: What list?


Ana wasn't on the list either because Ben told Juliet that Goodwin was trying to make an argument to include her. Sawyer I believe wasn't on the list either, or else they wouldn't have wanted to kill him.

Eko may have been on the list as he killed an Other while they seemed to be trying to "take" him.
100%
OH!!!!

So *Smokey* is Jacob's nemesis???

Somewhow I missed that obvious element of tonight's episode. Shoot.

It would appear that Smokey is against Jacob as Smokey told Ben to follow "evil" Locke, who wanted Jacob killed, or else Smokey would kill Ben.

Whether the good guys are represented by white and the bad guys are black (or vice versa) isn't really clear quite yet, at least to me. However, in the past when Smokey has engaged someone, he often takes the form of a dead loved one, and in two distinct cases he poses a challenge to them: Confess your sins. Eko refused to confess... he blatantly stood there and said "I ask for no forgiveness." He was proud for having murdered that man to save his little brother. Later, Ben is confronted by Alex's spectre and begs forgiveness for his sins.... and he is spared! I find that very intriguing,

I agree, with you. I do not think it's exactly clear who's dark and who light. I think we should take a closer look at their action than their shirts.



toddintexas -
Ana wasn't on the list either because Ben told Juliet that Goodwin was trying to make an argument to include her. Sawyer I believe wasn't on the list either, or else they wouldn't have wanted to kill him.

Eko may have been on the list as he killed an Other while they seemed to be trying to "take" him
Kate is definitely not on Jacob's list

We can not be sure what MIKHAIL was telling the truth, or not. He might have just been saying that. Afterall,Ben didn't completely trust MIKHAIL , which is why he didn't tell him about the looking glass. So I doubt Ben would have told him who was, or wasn't on the list.
However, in season 2 Michael was told to bring back everyone list on the list. Kate,Sawyer, Hurley and Jack. ( Hurley was sent back ). In the episode "I Do". Danny mention Jacob list , but he only says that Jack wasn't on Jacob's list. He never said that Kate and Sawyer wasn't on the list. Just that Jack wasn't.

From I DO:

PICKETT: Let's go. [Walks off with a man]

OTHER MAN: Ben's just gone into surgery.

PICKETT: Ben just put his life in the hands of one of them! Shephard wasn't on Jacob's list.

We know that Smokey judges people kills them if he decides they are guilty, or something along those lines. Except for the Pilot who he seemed to judge rapidly, or not judge at all, and just kill.

We have seen that Jacob deliberately had Nadia killed, who is innocent, and he also knew John would fall from a window, and did nothing to prevent it.

So I don't know if either of them can really be called good

We can not be sure what MIKHAIL was telling the truth, or not. He might have just been saying that. Afterall,Ben didn't completely trust MIKHAIL , which is why he didn't tell him about the looking glass. So I doubt Ben would have told him who was, or wasn't on the list.
However, in season 2 Michael was told to bring back everyone list on the list. Kate,Sawyer, Hurley and Jack. ( Hurley was sent back ). In the episode "I Do". Danny mention Jacob list , but he only says that Jack wasn't on Jacob's list. He never said that Kate and Sawyer wasn't on the list. Just that Jack wasn't.

So we are to believe Pickett, but not Mikhail?

Frankly, I think both of them were telling the truth, and Jack and Kate both aren't on the list.

Plus, the "list" with Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley, wasn't Jacob's "list". If it was, and they were all Jacob's chosen ones, why would they have treated them so harshly, and wanted to kill Sawyer? They wanted Jack to save Ben, and they wanted Kate and Sawyer so they could manipulate Jack into doing the surgery.

For some reason, I feel that Jacob is the good guy. No explanation, cos I don't know why I think that.

Although, maybe neither of them is really 'good', and they're actually just playing their little game and using the Losties as pawns.

So we are to believe Pickett, but not Mikhail?

Picket lived with all the others, Mikhail lived away from the group. Mikhail seem like a outsider.



Plus, the "list" with Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley, wasn't Jacob's "list". If it was, and they were all Jacob's chosen ones, why would they have treated them so harshly, and wanted to kill Sawyer? They wanted Jack to save Ben, and they wanted Kate and Sawyer so they could manipulate Jack into doing the surgery.

In A tale of two cities, Ben told Kate that the next two week was going to be unpleasant. Which led people to believe that they were being tested. Not everyone wanted to kill Sawyer, just Danny. No one else wanted to kill Sawyer.

We've certainly been given the impression that Jacob is good and his nemesis is bad. But I agree that it might be too obvious. I have always felt strongly that Locke was uniquely good. And Locke is Jacob's nemesis. I don't believe that Locke has been taken over by anyone.

There are mluliple lists... "Jacob's list" specifically didn't include Jack, nor did it include Kate, Sayid, or Locke though it's presumed to include Zach and Emma plus others from the tail section. It would appear that Jacob's list specifically left off everyone who he visited and touched off the island... this meant that they wouldn't be taken by the others and could reach their "destiny".

Later Ms Klugh makes a new list of 4 people that Michael is to bring to her or never see Walt again. That list was of Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/List#Jacob.27s_list

We've certainly been given the impression that Jacob is good and his nemesis is bad. But I agree that it might be too obvious. I have always felt strongly that Locke was uniquely good. And Locke is Jacob's nemesis. I don't believe that Locke has been taken over by anyone.

I agree. We only assume that Jacob is good, because the others and Ben said that he was good. But I agree with Frank. People who go out of their way to tell you their the good guys, are the bad guys.

But if we take into consideration the choice of names ( Names are usually significant on lost) used. Jacob could be a reference to Jacob in the biblical Book of Genesis. Which would make black shirt guy,Esau.Jacob and Esau were fraternal twins. Esau first and Jacob was birthed second. Esau was suppose to inherit the wealth of his father after his death.Genesis 25:29-34 shows Esau willingly selling his birthright to Jacob in exchange for a "mess of pottage" (meal of lentils). Controversy has surrounded this scripture, in that some have noted that Esau may have been in danger of starving to death and was taken advantage of by Jacob in a vulnerable moment. Rebekah later abets Jacob in receiving his father's blessing disguised as Esau. Isaac then refuses to take Jacob's blessing back after learning he was tricked, and does not give a second blessing to Esau .

So I going to go out on a lame and say that Jacob could be a bit of a bad guy. Hmm? maybe Jacob offering black shirt guy a "Red Herring", could be a hint as to what type of person Jacob is.


LINK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau