Didn't like the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:






This thread is for those that did NOT like the episode. If you liked the ep please visit the "Loved it!!!" thread. If you want to debate the episode (likes and dislikes), then please take your comments to the "Rate The Episode" thread or The "Discuss The Episode" thread. Any off topic posts will be deleted and possibly warned or given infraction points.

This whole season has been a lot of nothing. This season sucks! How many episodes have their been? Everything that has happened could have been done in 2 episodes. What a waste of 5 seasons for this.

Boring. Even my wife thought it sucked, and she's been a lot more forgiving of this season than I have.

After making Sun run around for the better part of two seasons with no lines other than "where's my husband?" (and then taking even those lines away), did the writers really expect me to care about the Sun/Jin death scene? Honestly? Even Charlie's death had more impact on me, and I hated his character.

-steve

Claire being abandoned again didn't exactly do much for me.....

Truly the most disturbing, violent show of it's kind ever broadcast.

Three main beloved characters killed in the most violent and torturous ways imagineable. Taking two people who have scoured heaven and earth to be together and then rejoice all of five minutes regulated to watching each other die in a slow, painful, horrific manner...knowing their child is now an orphan?? Then the slow motion soft light drifting of the bodies away? Sad.

This is crash TV at it's worst.

Name one show (not named "The Pacific") that has a body count like this show. Even the last season of the Sopranos didn't have this high of a casualty rate but at least it MADE SENSE!! This makes ZERO sense.

And ya, I get it. The flash sideways will be the redemption of them all and all will be well (my personal opinion not based on anything as I am spoiler free). But this was disgusting.

The only sliver of humanity on this show tonight was when Hugo broke down on the beach. That was the only believeable moment in 44 minutes of body shreading mayhem.

And...Wow...first five minutes...more gun fire, attempted murder, threatening with murder and Jack and Bernard are working in the same complex everyone else is living and working in...wow. What reach.

Wow, Kate is again used as murder bait to get James to behave. You would think at this point, he would just shoot her himself and tell Chuck "Your Move." And just in case you don't remember why Sawyer had to go into the cage..it was because that chubby fella "Gots the Gun!!" Instead of snappy, deep dialoge we now just jam a gun into people's faces.

And, Jack is reminded if he doesn't go on yet another search and rescue mission of the bumbling Oceanic 815 who seemingly can't walk from here to there without being captured by armed mauraders...he can be KILLED by smoke!

For the love of all things holy...Can we have some diversity with this season?? When did it take such a violent, dark, murderous tone?

Oh, and guys with guns? Bullets can't damage smoke...as it is not made of solid matter and is gaseous in nature allowing bullets to pass safely through. Nice writing.

I must say I think they made Mr. Cooper watch this final season on infinite loop from the way he looked.

And all this time...we need to take the submarine??? The Plane was useless to begin with. IT IS STUCK IN SAND FOR GOD"S SAKE!!!

And the logic of sending flesh and blood people to attack the sub when a pillar of man eating smoke ducks behind barrels is....what now?

Is there any reason to think FLOCK couldn't swirl through there and take out the bad men with more guns who opened fire on them?? Instead...he gets into a GUNFIGHT with them??? For real??

And nobody on the sub thought this odd..."Gee, he took all those other's out with smoke in ten seconds...but now he is engaging them in a prolonged gunfight away from the sub in human form...you don't think?? NAH! Let's go!! We tricked him!!

Oh, and no reason to tell the captain the reason to surface...JUST DO IT!! How about..."um, we have three minutes to live if you don't get us up Capt..there is a bomb on board."

Who amungst us did not know that timer would start again and in double time? Lazy lazy writing.

This show has taken such a disturbing, diabolical sheen that it in no way resembles the show we all loved from Season one.

Sad.

Three main beloved characters killed in the most violent and torturous ways imagineable. Taking two people who have scoured heaven and earth to be together and then rejoice all of five minutes regulated to watching each other die in a slow, painful, horrific manner...knowing their child is now an orphan?? Then the slow motion soft light drifting of the bodies away? Sad.

Yeah... I'm really just saying to myself all the time "what was the point?"
Why have Sun and Jin struggle to find eachother for YEARS only to die one episode after their reuinion?

Is there some rule that says all the characters have to be killed off before the series can end?? Or more likely: the writers are too lazy to think of meaningful things to write for this many characters anymore.


The only sliver of humanity on this show tonight was when Hugo broke down on the beach. That was the only believeable moment in 44 minutes of body shreading mayhem.

Agreed. Everyone on that Island should be having mental breakdowns right about now. Most soldiers don't see that much combat and bloodshed.


And the logic of sending flesh and blood people to attack the sub when a pillar of man eating smoke ducks behind barrels is....what now?

Is there any reason to think FLOCK couldn't swirl through there and take out the bad men with more guns who opened fire on them?? Instead...he gets into a GUNFIGHT with them??? For real??

yeah... there seems to be no rhyme or reason to when Flocke decides to kill people as Smokey or to just tackle issues in human form. I think the trend is, whenever Flocke is already on-screen, he uses his human form, because the show doesn't have the resources to show a transformation from man-to-smoke.


Who amungst us did not know that timer would start again and in double time? Lazy lazy writing.

Right, cause that's how watches work.

This episode was no more of a travesty than the rest of the season has been but man... it just felt so stupid and pointless. I didn't get so involved with Lost because it reminded me of Live Free Or Die Hard, as it does now.

I think people were so wrapped up in whether the answers to the mysteries would be disappointing, they forgot to worry about the simpler aspects of the writing.

THREE beloved main characters were killed off in the most contrived sloppy-action movie scenerio possible. The reason? I quote Darlton, in a post-episode non-spoiler interview on EW:

The main narrative reason for him killing our main characters is to establish how much of a bad guy he is and to clearly identify him as the antagonist rolling into the end of the series.

Lost has always been at its worst when the plot moved the characters instead of the characters moving the plot. But unfortunately for us, they've decided to take this approach for nearly this entire last season. The characters are merely pawns on a chess board, but not just for Jacob and MiB, but for the writers too. It's mechanical.

I'm incredibly worried about the remaining episodes. Not because of the answers we might not get, but because of how sloppily the characters will be handled before they're inevitably blowed up real good.

I'm so deeply disappointed by this episode. The characters deserve better than that.

Think of this: more time was spent on Nikki and Paulo's deaths than Sun and Jin's.

Have you all read this article? http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/all/1 (http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/all/1) This is why I didn't care for this episode. In this article tptb say that the audience are like 3 year olds where if you answer a question they keep asking you why so all you can do is point to something like Chuck E Cheese to distract them. Them killing off main characters was the Chuck E Cheese moment. It will get those of us that are easily distracted to stop talking about the inconsistencies in the few answers they gave us like Christian Shephard.

Give it a read. If you are down on this season and think it's going no where the writers pretty much validate your feelings.

I agree with you, Baileysdad. Sun and Jin = fail. Smocke using guns instead of his black smoke persona = fail. Kate & Claire = fail. Epic fail all around, I'd say.

Train wreck

I love how Sun and Jin keep talking to each other in English. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. "Our viewers are too dumb to be moved if they had to read "I love you" instead of hearing it!"
Thing is, I think I'm actually not dumb enough to be moved by that death scene anyway, considering how nonsensical the whole thing was.

So Smocke can't kill the candidates directly. Because he's not allowed to. By "the rules". Remember how Ben couldn't kill Widmore or vice versa? Yeah, same kind of deal. It would seem whoever wrote "the rules" might be completely arbitrary but sure cares a lot about drama.
Anyway, Smocke can't kill the candidates directly. So what does he do?
Well, simple enough: he immediately spots the bomb that Widmore planted on the plane (for some reason? were the candidates just a Smocke bait, as far as Widmore was concerned? and can Smocke be killed by an explosion, now? wait, why am I even asking questions? 'guess the show needed another bomb, so there it is!), grabs it, quickly adds a timer he probably had in his pocket all along (now, there's someone who plans ahead), says "let's go take the sub" (who knew it would be so easy?), puts the bomb in Jack's unexplained-but-so-convenient backpack (seriously, it looks like Jack had been carrying a backpack these past episodes just so Smocke could pull that trick.. you were wondering why he kept the mysterious backpack when he swam back to the main island, two weeks ago? well, there you go!), and assumes our heroes would try defusing the bomb (because the timer Smocke added so quickly is also a tricky one... and it would seem that, according to "the rules", them trying to defuse the bomb counts as if they, not Smocke, set it up in the first place... don't ask... say, if Jack couldn't kill himself with dynamite, maybe Sawyer should have kept the bomb he just tried to defuse, and it wouldn't have blown up? that makes sense, right?!) without resurfacing with the sub.
A sound plan.
I mean, it was either that, or letting Widmore's bomb kill them all in the plane, and... Oh. Yeah, he could have done that, too!

Just like he could have let Jack die in the mortar strike. What was the point of saving him, again?
Not only is the show predictable (are we really supposed to be wondering what those flashsideways are, when it's so painfully obvious they're an epilogue ever since the very beginning of the season?), but even its inconsistencies are (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showpost.php?p=2329746&postcount=12).

Sorry, show, but you're not making sense.
I don't mind heavy body counts, as long as the deaths make sense. They simply don't, here. And no amount of obnoxious violins or pianos will change that.
(gotta love how the writers show that Jin is fine in the flashsideways immediately after the death scene, too... yeah, we get it: you think your viewers are a bunch of idiots)

In the end, Sayid turning "evil" (?) proved to be about as essential to the plot as Sun forgetting how to speak English.
Yeah, he killed Dôgen (who was the one who kept Smocke out of the temple, apparently? why did they let Contagiously Evil Sayid roam around the temple and near Dôgen, then? and what about the ash? why am I asking questions, again?), but since I'm still not sure as to what the point of the temple "plotline" was anyway... Apart from finally showing us the "famed" temple (without telling us anything about it, naturally), that is...

Same thing for Sawyer's little adventure last episode: They're all back together less than a hour later. What was the point? Oh, yeah: "exciting television". I keep forgetting.

Gratuitous cameo of the week: Bernard.


EDIT: Oh, so Smocke's timer was actually one of the goons' watch? 'Still makes no sense whatsoever (why would Locke take that watch before even discovering the bomb? when did Locke find the time (or the skills?) to turn that watch into a bomb timer?), but I had missed that detail...

Only a couple episodes left and the only one I can ever rewatch is maybe the desmond episode. I feel like a damn fool for following this lazy, sloppy, plothole, nonsensical, god vs devil, lousy pos story. But I guess I deserve it, because it wasn't about the mystery at all. Only the simple minded ask questions.

To sum up this season.
We need to get to point B, no time to talk.
I would like to give you an answer but it will be dark soon and we need to start moving to point C.
Oh wait I don't have time to talk I have unfinished business at the temple.
Well, now that they are all dead, I guess we'll go to point A
Oh @#$%, I've been on this island for 120 years and he forgot to tell me what the candidates purpose is.
Maybe we should join the other group at point C.
No time to explain we need to get to hydra.
I caught this man wondering around, he seems to be wasted.
The plane is the only way out, not the donkey wheel, the sub, the sail boat, or a hot air balloon, if we don't destroy the half buried, low fuel plane the mib will escape.
I have a plan to outsmart this all knowing, possible time traveling, evil angel.
My bad, sorry for getting all but 4 of us killed, but at least I didn't kill Juliet.

only a couple episodes left and the only one i can ever rewatch is maybe the desmond episode. I feel like a damn fool for following this lazy, sloppy, plothole, nonsensical, god vs devil, lousy pos story. But i guess i deserve it, because it wasn't about the mystery at all. Only the simple minded ask questions.

To sum up this season.
We need to get to point b, no time to talk.
I would like to give you an answer but it will be dark soon and we need to start moving to point c.
Oh wait i don't have time to talk i have unfinished business at the temple.
Well, now that they are all dead, i guess we'll go to point a
oh @#$%, i've been on this island for 120 years and he forgot to tell me what the candidates purpose is.
Maybe we should join the other group at point c.
No time to explain we need to get to hydra.
I caught this man wondering around, he seems to be wasted.
The plane is the only way out, not the donkey wheel, the sub, the sail boat, or a hot air balloon, if we don't destroy the half buried, low fuel plane the mib will escape.
I have a plan to outsmart this all knowing, possible time traveling, evil angel.
My bad, sorry for getting all but 4 of us killed, but at least i didn't kill juliet.

pure gold

If 2 candidates played hackey sack with a stick of dynamite from the black rock and one kicked it to the other? Would they blow up?

That depends on what THE RULES say this week.

(Or whether the writers want to get rid of them or not.)

The first 45 minutes were pointless... walking back and forth from the cages, to the plane, to the sub.

Sun and Jin's deaths were so meaningless... why on earth did they spend so much time and energy looking for each other again? What purpose did they have to fulfil before they died? None. And in their final episode (I'm not counting their AU clones as the real Sun and Jin), they each only had two lines in the cage prior to the death scenes. What a waste of good characters. I guess Charlie and Michael should feel lucky.

What a disappointment. I was hoping for an awesome final 5 hours where they use ALL the characters, each fulfilling some part of a plan to defeat MIB. Why do that when you can kill 4 in 4 minutes, just to prove how "evil" the antagonist is? :mad:

Wow, that was TERRIBLE. Who the hell writes this thing? I seriously don't understand how "professionals" could screw up something so badly. Everything about this episode, from the writing to the special effects, everything was just plain horrible.

Oh, and what was the whole point of making so much emphasis on the "not sure which of Kwons is it" plot when you are just going to end up killing them both? =\ Unbelievable.

I agree with what has already been said as usual...

We are so close to the end now, and this is just waffle really. Go here, go there, split up, join up again, I need you to do this, I don't believe you, now I do believe you, trust me, I don't have time to explain, he can't kill us because of the rules, I can't be killed at all, we need to get on the plane, we need to destroy the plane, we can't even use the plane, we need the sub, rub a dub dub I blew up the sub... it just goes nowhere. I can't even comment on the alternative time line because nothing happened, just a vast expanse of nothingness.

Just a few more episodes then I can have it confirmed that this show really is terrible now, and I can start to deconstruct the inconsistencies and lack of long-term vision in the earlier seasons.

I must say I think they made Mr. Cooper watch this final season on infinite loop from the way he looked.


LOL !

Once again an episode riddled with plot holes, inconsistencies & utter stupidity.

My major gripes are already well-written by "Tiny-Time Machine" in his post in the main thread.

Logic?
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=125254

Even the music sucked.

1. Flocke rescues them from the bomb on the airplane only to use the same bomb to kill them on the submarine.
2. Flocke can't kill them, but he grabs a gun and goes off to kill them.
3. Flocke can only kill them if they're all together, but when 4 survive, he can kill them.
4. Lapidus hangs around only until it is obvious he won't be needed to fly the plane.
5. Sun & Jin hang around only until they are reunited.
6. Locke had his pilot's license in the alt world, so he could have flown them away without Lapidus -- oh, wait, this is Flocke, so that snippet was pointless.
7. Flocke can walk through gunfire sometimes but not other times.
8. Finding someone's dental records will tell you a lot more about someone's accident than examining their injury in surgery.
9. Sayid is evil and on the side of Flocke -- oh, wait, he isn't.
10. Sun and Jin spend their last moments talking to each other in English.
11. Drowning is a beautiful, spiritual experience.
12. "Everyone who wasn't killed scattered into the jungle."
13. Widmore keeps shooting things at them, but when they show up, he puts them in cages.
14. Which was the candidate, Sun or Jin? Oh, doesn't matter, both dead.
15. Anthony Cooper is a good guy in the alt. Exploding a bomb in 1977 somehow changed the character of a man born in the 1930s (of course, it did that with Ben's dad, too, but not Jack's dad for some reason).
16. Is Claire on Flocke's side or not?

In no particular order:

1) In my opinion, Lost really doesn't do action sequences that well, especially this season - it feels like some corny 80s action film, with anonymous extras getting killed left right and centre, and our heroes running around being heroic.

2) The characters are so blasé in the face of extreme, immediate danger to themselves and the people they care about that it kills any tension.

3) As so many people have pointed out, a first-wave assault of a conman, a pilot, a lottery winner, a wealthy industrialist's daughter and her husband whilst an invulnerable smoke monster hangs back is just glaringly nonsensical.

4) There's only 10 of them left. Couldn't they leave on Desmond's boat? Might be very cramped, but surely that's better than a risky assault on a submarine you don't know how to pilot? I thought the reason they were going to leave on the plane (which could never fly, but whatever) was because they needed something large enough to take all the extras, but now the extras have kinda melted away again and they don't matter?

5) I don't mean to "pick on the fat guy", but Hurley is obese - swimming out of a submarine that's deep underwater dragging an injured woman is surely not an easy task? It's another element that broke the immersion of the scene for me.

6) Sun and Jin not speaking in Korean in private, intimate moments between the two of them felt really off - for me it killed any emotion in the scene, rather than added to it.

7) I really liked Sun and Jin in the early seasons, I thought they were interesting characters. They've become really one-dimensional in the last couple of seasons, it's felt as though the writers weren't really interested in them and couldn't think of anything more for them to do. Killing them felt more like housekeeping because they didn't want them cluttering up scenes in the last few episodes.

8) The main thing that's been bothering me this season - I thought the idea of agreeing an end date was so they could plan things better and didn't have to throw in new mysteries/string mysteries along. Given that "THERE IS NO MORE SAYID!" now, what was the point of him dying and being ressurected, or the focus on him being "infected" earlier this season if they were never going anywhere with it? I'd have rather they either didn't bother with it (there's already way too much stuff going on), or took some time with it so it had a point.

Well, right from the beginning, the show's title said it all, didn't it?

LOST.

TPTB have never seemed so done, so over, so disinterested, and so... LOST.
The writing has never seemed so lazy, so sloppy, and so...LOST.
The actions of the characters have never seemed so redundant, so circular, so pointless and so...LOST.
The storylines of so many characters have never seemed so...LOST.
The time so many of us have spent over 5+ seasons has never seemed so...LOST.

Yup. We've all LOST.

In no particular order:

5) I don't mean to "pick on the fat guy", but Hurley is obese - swimming out of a submarine that's deep underwater dragging an injured woman is surely not an easy task? It's another element that broke the immersion of the scene for me.
I thought I was the only one who really REALLY wanted to see the how the hell Hurley was going to escape a sinking submarine carrying an injured Kate. I guess the reason they didn't show it is painfully obvious.

Thank you guys for expressing so much. Baileysdad, your passionate post moved me. I've been trying to figure out how the writers could have come up with this.

Lost writers to execs

Here is our concept. There's a good guy and a bad guy. They probably have super powers and some limits to their powers. We think so anyway. We'll figure that out at some point down the road. What we do know is the good guy wears white. The bad guy wears black. The good guy wants these people he picked to take over his gig. The bad guy doesn't want that. The two guys move the people around like game pieces and most of them die. Good checkmates evil. The End.

OK, so is this a Movie of the Week? This is two hours max. And where's the moral ambiguity? Isn't the bad guy good at heart? The good guy is unmasked at the end?

Um, no, the good guy is telling the truth and the bad guy is an evil heartless monster who happens to be a murderous monster and everyone knows he kills people. Like God and Satan and they're super old but they speak with American accents so the fans can relate to them.

Where's the suspense then if there's no twist?

Um, well here's the deal. We want to run this show for five or six years before we reveal the good guy and the bad guy exist. We hint at their existence, see. We drop the name of the good guy now and then, this guy no one ever sees. The monster kills but we don't know why or when it will show up or where it came from or know that it can turn into a man. So we never reveal that we only have enough theme for Movie of the Week until the six or seven years has made us all rich.

But if you never show the two main guys, what drives the story?

Um, hints that something amazing is going on. Meanwhile the people march around the island and look islandy and sexy, form love triangles, kill each other off, form alliances like on Survivor. We cast a lot of red shirts and we import new groups as we kill them off, and a lot of stuff blows up. It all seems very metaphysical vs. science.

And is it?

No, not really. It's basically a good guy playing backgammon with a bad guy and using hot actors and actresses as their tools. We start with a board full of pieces and we kill a few every so often, which makes the fans cry. At the end we have a few that are still alive and they live happily ever after, and that makes the fans happy. Or maybe the dead ones will come back. Some of them. The ones who aren't doing other projects or series.

We still think it's not enough material for a series we can syndicate.

OK then, how about this? Half of each episode will be off the island and we write simple plots that mirror the main action. That way we get an hour out of a half hour plot. And don't forget there are a lot of explosions and guns and there is no continuity error in the world that can't be blamed on electromagnetism and time travel - so the writers can just go with the flow every week. It'll be great, legendary, you'll see!

Why not? Survivor is on its 8th or 9th season ... you know you need to divide these people into tribes, and make sure their plane was stocked with tarps and an endless supply of tiki torches when it crashed.

We can do that.

THE END

I'm just as unsatisfied with this season as everybody else is & I've got just as much time & energy invested in LOST as well but thank gawd I haven't turned completely.anal over it. WTH else should we have expected? This is a TV show & we live in dumbed down America. I'm cruisin' down the river at this point because of the last 2 sentences & have experience dealing with reality when it rears its ugly head. May I make a suggestion? Try the above & listen to some Bob Marley in the meantime - iow's - chill.

I thought the reason they were going to leave on the plane (which could never fly, but whatever) was because they needed something large enough to take all the extras, but now the extras have kinda melted away again and they don't matter?
Speaking of extras... Remember the other passengers of the Ajira flight? Well, you shouldn't!
'Gotta love how the writers simply got rid of them with no explanation whatsoever. Then again, nobody really cares, apparently. Just like nobody really cared when the other passengers of the first flight all died. They simply don't matter. 'Sucks for them.

8The main thing that's been bothering me this season - I thought the idea of agreeing an end date was so they could plan things better and didn't have to throw in new mysteries/string mysteries along. Given that "THERE IS NO MORE SAYID!" now, what was the point of him dying and being ressurected, or the focus on him being "infected" earlier this season if they were never going anywhere with it?To give naive and inattentive viewers (their fan base, basically) the impression that this particular early plot thread has been solved.
Same thing for the temple. You've seen it. "Solved".
Or the cabin. It was built by Horace and it's been burnt to the ground. "Solved".


It's basically a good guy playing backgammon with a bad guy and using hot actors and actresses as their tools.
Except backgammon has precise rules, and our show doesn't. It just pretends it does, but they change whenever necessary.


WTH else should we have expected?
It's ending pretty much as I expected back in season 2. I'm enjoying the train wreck.
Hopefully, the "hardcore fans" will come to realize the writers have been pulling their leg for years, in the end. Hopefully.

To add some more specific problems with this episode:

1) They killed off Sayid without explaining his turn as a zombie, What happened to him? Did he go dark inside like Dogen said he would? That was described as a one way process where the person disappears. How did he return? What made him decide to spare Desmond and sacrifice himself? What about his dream of seeing Nadia? Did he have an epiphany? We won't ever know.

I don't believe they had the Sayid story conceptualized, and it was easier to kill him BOOM than to write a scene or two that would give him closure.

2) If Locke in the Alt is so bent on punishing himself that he won't let Jack fix his spine, why did the same Locke try to go to the Outback and do a Walkabout? He was pursuing his dreams, but now he's a guy who feels he doesn't deserve to have it all -- which is it?

3) There was no reason to have Lapidus around all that time, none. His death had no purpose either. I feel like he was a glorified red shirt.

4) How many times has the scene been done where a guard gets dropped with the keys to the cell just out of reach? Too many.
How many scenes of a vessel sinking have been done where someone has to be left behind because they're pinned by something heavy and immovable? Too many.

5) Why is Kate's wound so serious up until the bomb is discovered, and then she doesn't bleed out while Hugo is carrying her out and to shore, and by the time it ends her wound seems like more of an owie than a bullet having ripped through her body? (Which I hated; it was brutal.)

6) So all those decades that electric fencing kept the smoke monster at bay, it turns out that smoke monster knows how to cut the power to said fences and was just playing along with the whole "can't get past the pylons" construct. Humoring them. I'd have to watch it again, but I thought it was UnLocke who cut the power, and not a flunky.

7) Widmore - does the "I'm putting you in a polar bear cage for your own good" line really work to make people docile and obedient?

8) Sayid left Desmond in the well as a sort of storage option? How fortunate that Sayid saw his death coming and had the presence of mind to mention that. Note that Jack's group has another "place to go" -- new mission, to the well!

9) So the New Jack in Alt U really really compulsively needs to fix things, and will cross ethical and professional lines to do it, which makes him different from Original Jack exactly how?

10) It's really boring that the monster is a very bad evil lying sunofavincent who's out to kill all the good guys. What a concept.

11) Re UnLocke not turning into black smoke when attacked, I felt like UnLocke was stuck fighting the silly gun battle kind of like Clark Kent got caught without a phone booth handy. (A Superbad Clark Kent.) What's the point of being able to turn into black smoke and waste people if you can only do it when no one is looking at you? :confused:

That said, at first I enjoyed the fact that most of the main characters minus Miles/Ben/Richard were together and the on island story wasn't totally stalling out -- until it got to the gun battle and the really silly bomb plot and needless death scenes. That's how low the bar has gotten for me this season.
100%
Hopefully, the "hardcore fans" will come to realize the writers have been pulling their leg for years, in the end. Hopefully.
Not so sure, OlivierHague. Check the Loved It topic and people are nominating this for one of the best episodes of the series. Epic! People are weeping for Sun and Jin.

At this point I've embraced the trainwreck. It's fun to read and point out what a mess it is; that's the only amusement I'm getting back for my investment so I would rather have that fun then force myself to be all accepting and chilled out. The reason I liked the show was it made me think. Analyzing how much it sucks and why allows me to keep thinking.

6) So all those decades that electric fencing kept the smoke monster at bay, it turns out that smoke monster knows how to cut the power to said fences and was just playing along with the whole "can't get past the pylons" construct. Humoring them. I'd have to watch it again, but I thought it was UnLocke who cut the power, and not a flunky.


Jack mentions that Sayid is the one who cut the power, which is why he wasn't helping Jack open the cages.

Thank you for reminding me. But it still makes the pylons plot silly. Widmore knew Smokey had friends. Besides which, people aren't supposed to be able to pass through the pylons either. How did Sayid get through? This gave me the image of a circuit breaker box mounted on the enemy's side of the fence.

Wow, this was one of the worst episodes ever, and the Sun and Jin death scene played a major role. Not because it was sad, which to me it wasn't at all but because it was just so illogical. Jin chooses to die with his wife rather than live for his daughter? I mean really? What father does that? Even if Jin loves Sun more than his daughter (and as a father of a 3 year old daughter, I just can't imagine that) wouldn't he want to live and raise Ji Yeon as a tribute to Sun and tell her about what a great person her mother was (even though he would be lying)? I think that right there was the worst writing of the entire series.

So Sawyer pulls the wire from the bomb and it speeds up. OK, so what? I assume we are supposed to believe that like Jack said none of them would have died if they let the bomb just countdown to zero with no interference. So since Sawyer pulled the wire, he interfered and now they can all die. BUT WAIT!!! Jack lit the dynamite with Richard present and the dynamite fizzled out. So this would mean that since a candidate can't kill themselves, if they orchestrated the mode of killing (Sawyer pulling the wire), then anyone in their presence can't die, just like the Jack and Richard scene, yet the scene wasn't written that way, ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

Like others have mentioned before me, the pylon scene was bad, so Sayid can just walk in and cut the power to the pylons with no one noticing him. And he knows exactly where to go to cut the power. And he has the proper tools to cut that power. Yeah, OK.

Jack visiting Bernard to find out more about his death, a dentist/periodontist or whatever he is supposed to be, why wouldn't Jack visit the actual doctor who was at the hospital when Locke was admitted after the plane crash? I guess just so we would be able to have another shout out to Bernard.

And what did this show really do to the overall story, other than have several deaths? Did anything else really happen? A sub was blown up (there could be more, but we also have at least one sail boat left) and MiB knows the Candidates are against him. Anything really new?

I watched it live but immediately deleted the episode from my DVR since there is no reason to rewatch. I figured I would save the space for better shows.

In my opinion this season should never have been penned to 17 episodes. Season 1 and 2 are up there with the best of them. Why? Because of the pace, the direction, the character interactions, everything. It was, in a sci-fi show manner, BELIEVABLE. 24 episodes a season allowed that! The writers strike played it's part sure, but at the end of the day if it ain't broke dron't fix it.

No logic and no heart. Even the actors have to be questioning some of this.

No logic and no heart. Even the actors have to be questioning some of this.

I absolutely agree with this - maybe I'm reading too much into it just because I've disliked so much about this season, but I frequently feel watching Terry O'Quinn, Micheal Emmerson, Matthew Fox et al that they're good actors who can deliver what the script asks of them in a scene, but have no idea overall why their characters are doing what they're doing, and are just hoping it comes together at the end.

Also, what the hell is the idea with the B-squad Widmore drafted in? After Keamy and the mercenaries, are these guys supposed to seem really incompetent and anonymous? They look like a bunch of people who won a competition to be in the final season of Lost.

Have you all read this article? http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/all/1 (http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/all/1) This is why I didn't care for this episode. In this article tptb say that the audience are like 3 year olds where if you answer a question they keep asking you why so all you can do is point to something like Chuck E Cheese to distract them. Them killing off main characters was the Chuck E Cheese moment. It will get those of us that are easily distracted to stop talking about the inconsistencies in the few answers they gave us like Christian Shephard.

Give it a read. If you are down on this season and think it's going no where the writers pretty much validate your feelings.

So they thought we wouldn't notice? News flash....we noticed.

Its sad that the only character I cared about was the Pilot...a secondary character. I knew Sayid would go out in a blaze of glory (trite) and that Sun and Jin would die together for the heart wrenching aspect of it all (and that fell flat for me).

I DID like the grieving scene on the beach...made me almost like Kate and Jorge did some good acting.

It is really frustrating but I'm pretty sure in a couple of years, people are going to look back at Lost and laugh, ***mod edit***. The show was brilliant from the first episode, I got hooked I watched and rewatched all the episodes over and over again untill this season. I never took the time to rewatch an episode a second time cause it seemed like the worst waste of time ever.

I'm not going to write again all the flaws in logic and all the useless and boring storylines that we had been shown through the years but you know them right? All the storylines we thought were soooooo important and then just magically disapear.

Anyway, as I told, this show now suck but yes, at this point, I will follow it to the very end but I'm pretty sure the 2h30 finale will be a total disaster and a total dispointment.

I'm watching these last episodes because of the years of watching I have invested. I'm not bothering to be excited and watch it live anymore. DVR is good enough.

The deaths of the charcters? Eh. Whatever.

The magic is gone.

This is why I hesitate to watch new shows heavy on the mythology. They either don't end up well (Twin Peaks, The X-Files, Lost), or get cancelled (Invasion, Threshold, and I'd put my money on V and Flash Forward -- though the latter two are improving).

Came for Colin72's recap.
Leaving disappointed.:frown:

Why is this whole thread moved?

It's one ridiculously contrived nonsensical scenario after another...


Let's recap!


Jack wants to preform surgery on Locke so that he can walk again. Locke doesn't want the surgery because he's punishing himself... but he just went on a Walkabout... and his catchphrase is "Don't tell me what I can do".

Jack wants to know how Locke was injured. Somehow this will help Jack know how to go about preforming surgery on Locke.

Cue the Bernard cameo. Bernard remembers there was another man in the accident with Locke. Jacks says to Bernard, "Wait that was three years ago. You just remember that?" Bernard replies, "Of course I do Jack." How convenient. Bernard can't break patient confidentiality but he can write down the name Anthony Cooper for Jack. Bernard is the MIB of dentistry. He knows the loopholes.



Widmore captures everyone and although having them is very important, he decides to put them in cages where they can easily be freed. It's all for their own good but there's no time to explain. Widmore also decides to put the pylons that protect him from Locke a few feet from the cages.

Sayid somehow manages to kill the power to the pylons and Locke does his smoke mojo and kills Doughboy and the other guards. Everyone is free! That was easy. I love it when a plan comes together.


Locke goes to the plane. The guards tell him to stop. He doesn't stop. The guards fire their guns at him. He doesn't stop. These guys obviously didn't get the Smoke Monster 101 pamphlet on the sub ride.

Our band of dummies show up at the plane... which they're still convinced is somehow flyable despite the big hole in the windshield. Locke explains that Widmore had the plane wired with C4 and now they're going to take the sub... because there might be more C4 on the plane. Everyone thinks this is fine.

Sawyer tells Jack he has a plan. He doesn't trust Locke. When they get to the dock Jack is supposed to take care of Locke. How you ask? Jack is told to push him into the water. Jack is perfectly fine with this ingenious push into water plan.

At this point while watching the episode I wonder two things. What have Richard, Ben, and Miles been doing all this time and what has Widmore been doing while everyone has been hiking back and forth around Hydra island.


Claire shows up at Jack's hospital to ask how Daddy died and to ask why he left her a jewelry box. Claire could've just called but that wouldn't have given Lindelof and Cuse the opportunity to cram another mirror scene down our throats.


Our band of dummies show up at the unguarded dock. For some reason Sawyer makes the plan to approach the sub. The plan involves Sun and Hurley running to the sub unarmed with Kate, Sawyer and Lapidus. The plan doesn't involve sending in the unshootable Smoke Monster first to kill everyone. No plan is perfect.

Jack is able to follow through on Sawyer's brilliant plan of pushing the Smoke Monster into the water. Kate gets shot and all hell breaks loose. Locke doesn't feel like turning into the Smoke Monster so he gets into a shoot 'em up with Widmore's men. Smoke Monster 101: No point in getting into a shoot 'em up with an unshootable up Smoke Monster.


The dummies in the sub find the C4 in Jack's backpack. Anyone see that coming? Locke has somehow MacGyvered that sucker with a watch while they were walking to the sub dock and somehow managed to put it in Jack's backpack. Don't ask. There's no time for logic. The dummies don't tell the captain to get to the surface ASAP and instead start to argue about whether to disarm the bomb or not.

Jack suddenly has everything figured out. He says they've done exactly what Locke wanted. Locke can't leave the island unless they'll all dead. He wants them to try and stop the bomb so they'll kill each other. Jack says: "He told me he could kill any one of us whenever he wanted so what if he hasn't because he's... he's not allowed to." Not "allowed" to? Sorry but any talk about these vague "rules" sounds really stupid.


So what was Locke's plan all this time? Apparently he didn't have one until he found the C4 in the plane. At that point he figured that although he couldn't kill our dummies directly, he could give them a bomb that goes off if they try to disable it. These mysterious "rules" sure do have some easy loopholes. So let me get this straight. Locke's plan depended on them finding the bomb in the backpack while the timer was ticking down so they would try and disable it? What a brilliant plan. What a stupidly contrived brilliant plan.


Jack thinks Locke wants them to try and stop the bomb. Sawyer disagrees and pulls a wire because that's the kind of thing Sawyer does. Much to no one's surprise the bomb doesn't go off, kill everyone, and end the entire show. The timer stops... but then starts again and magically goes faster. Cliche anyone?


Sayid, who has been very lucid and unzombified for some reason the last few episodes, tells Jack that Desmond is in the well. You see, Sayid had a change of heart and didn't shoot Desmond. He merely left him to die a slow painful death in the bottom of the well. What a nice guy. Don't ask any questions about what's been going on with Sayid because he just ran the bomb into the end zone and went boom. The smart thing to do would have been to throw the bomb but Sayid is a moron like everyone else on this show. Surprisingly the explosion isn't very big. Apparently they could have taken the bomb into the room Sayid ran into, shut the door, and all lived.


Sayid is dead. Lapidus is probably dead. Sun is trapped by some cliched debris. Sawyer is hurt.

Jack could help pull on the thing trapping Sun but instead Jin, Sun, and Jack spend a lot of time looking at each other with sad faces before Jack eventually leaves. Jin and Sun make out, speak English to each other, and we get some cheesey music and horrible slo-mo shots of the CGI sub. Jin chooses to die with Sun despite having a young daughter. Isn't that romantic? We get a final shot of Jin and Sun's cold dead hands drifting apart Titanic-style. The cheese-o-meter starts to smoke and hits 10. Where's my husband? I must find Sun! What. A. Waste.



3+ hours of story left? Get ready Lost! Forget Twin Peaks, The X-Files, and Alias. You're going to be in a class all your own. This is going to be epic.


.

Why is this whole thread moved?

Yeah really. This is a new tactic...

Lindelof and Cuse trying to deflect criticism

Sadly, colin72 is dead on again. It's like watching a trainwreck and not being able to look away.

Have you all read this article? [COLOR=#2276bb]http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/all/1 (http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/all/1) This is why I didn't care for this episode. In this article tptb say that the audience are like 3 year olds where if you answer a question they keep asking you why so all you can do is point to something like Chuck E Cheese to distract them.

Yeah I've read it. What's crazy is there's actually Lost fans out there who don't think that is insulting.

We’ve gone from circling the bowl to being in desperate need of a monster plunger this season.

Again with the stupid pylons and Smokey. If way back when, Kate, Locke and company could climb over the really big ones (after Locke sent Patchy into the danger zone), why can Smokey not just shoot right over the top of the ones on the beach, especially since they’re even smaller?

Jin, the most incompetent husband on Earth. Instead of doing everything he can to save his wife, he has a conversation with Jack and then his wife, in English, of course. He even shares lengthy stares with Jack. Now, if I were in that situation, I wouldn’t even be talking to Jack. I’d be looking for a big metal pipe or something to free my wife. No, Jin just stands there like a moron and drowns with his wife and orphans his child. They could have at least had him keep working until the water had risen above their heads and then had a final kiss under water, then show them later floating dead. Dreadful.

So THREE of the major characters are killed off after nearly 6 complete seasons and I felt NOTHING. I was actually laughing when they died. This is how bad the writing has gotten over the past several seasons. I was laughing at the absurdity of how they finally killed these three characters off and was disappointed that they didn’t kill off Kate. They have destroyed every character on this show and I’ve been stating this since S4. I knew by the end of that season that when (as opposed to if) they killed other major characters off, I wouldn’t feel a thing. The last one they killed where you felt something was Charlie. Remember, Hugo telling Claire about Charlie in the S4 opener? You actually felt something. Tonight: laughter.

Any network or movie production company who would hire these people after this atrocity is simply insane. If this isn’t the definition of going through the motions for a paycheck, what is? What about pride in your work? I have more respect for the makers of soaps than these people. At least they tell you up front that their stuff is mindless garbage. I believe this show is officially the most overrated show in the history of television- not the worst, just the most overrated. All the build up of those first two seasons and the hype all along for this? Dreadful.

Tipping of the cap to Colin72 as usual before I begin. And a minor tipping of the cap to all the others who have posted in here with points I vehemently agree with.

On to some little things that, I know I know, they should be the least of my concerns. But my profession demands attention to detail. Thus I can't help but wonder the following.

(in no order of importance)
1. How did Jack NOT NOTICE an extra 4 pounds of plastic explosives in his back pack? I'm sorry but even a rookie cop can tell the difference between a loaded gun and an unloaded gun by the weight of the gun. You're expecting me to buy that Jack couldn't feel the weight of a clunky object rolling around in his backpack?

2. Why is there no one left on the LOST crew whose job it is to pay attention to blatant continuity errors? The sub gets entered, it's daytime. It sinks, they wash up on shore in the middle of the night? And what about the cages too?

3. If Sayid is all of a sudden so lucid and clear headed, how is it that he can't disarm the simplest of bombs when he has been shown to be what would amount to a NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED EXPERT in the field of improvised explosive devices? You expect me to buy that Sayid couldn't disarm, in 4 minutes, a bomb with a digital watch as the timer that was rigged up in less than an hour?

4. How is that an obese man who is approximately 175-200 pounds overweight can carry an extra 125-140 pounds up to the top of the ocean? I used to be really fat myself. I was once 275 pounds. I'm now 220. That kind of extra weight makes even the simplest of tasks, like walking 2 flights of stairs, a breath gasping effort. Yet we are expected to believe a morbidly obese man is in good enough shape to mirror that of a trained Navy diver?

5. So Kate gets shot with a high powered rifle from approximately 30-50 yards away, and you expect me to believe that her entire shoulder wouldn't have been ripped off and she would not have bled to death even if it hadn't? I don't care if that rifle didn't have hollow points in it. A high powered military rifle is designed to kill from 300 yards and in. At that range, she would have suffered an immense amount of damage that should have and in real life would have proven fatal.

6. Why did Locke save Jack from the mortar round last week if he was just going to kill him later that same day?

Watching this absolute freight train of a wreck reminds me of that riotously funny scene from Young Frankenstein where Gene Wilder tells them to not open the door when he goes into the room with the monster and then pleads with them as soon as he gets in there for them to let him out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu1DMSqTLyk&feature=related

Sadly, watching LOST reminds of that scene because we're Gene Wilder and LOST is the monster.

To sum up how I view what LOST has become as I watch it all come to an end, perhaps the most apropos quote I can lay at this time is from another great Young Frankenstein scene.....

http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/frank/sounds/ravings.wav

That entire episode felt like it was written by a 10 year old kid who'd forgotten to take his ritalin. Lots of stuff going on but none of it entertaining.

I love the way three major characters were killed off in the space of 5 minutes. After six seasons of following them around the writers decide this is the best way to do it. Apparently Season Six is the season where everyone becomes a redshirt. How can anyone think this is good TV when it's clear even the writer's don't give a shit anymore.

And once again, the solution to move the plot forward is to blow stuff up.

It was bad nonsensical story telling...I have not much to add that people haven't talked about. I'm just grimmed out that the creators now are just throwing stuff in to throw it in. Particularly egregious was the cartoon planning session, twelve feet from the sub, hunkered down in tall grass where they could easily be seen from anywhere...and having the first wave be a couple of people who aren't even armed....

...on the Hurley swims Kate to safety thing, though. Yes, Hurley is a fat dude. All the fat floats. He probably didn't even have to kick to bob to the surface. Yes, this was just as stupid as everything else, but I think it was actually less stupid than the rest. I have more problems with the tiny hole in the hull that four pounds of C4 made.

Wow, just when I thought this show couldn't possibly be any worse they put this episode out.

I guess I was supposed to care when the Kwon's died but I didn't care at all. I knew they were dead the second he uttered "I'll never leave you again" and knew dang well the death scene would involve him choosing to die to stay with her. Not that it really matters at all since there is two of everybody and you can't merge the timelines and have two of everybody run around now can you?

Plots holes, characters doing stupid stuff, almost every plot line being completely meaningless, bad dialog, over the top music. Boom Lost.....

Wow, just when I thought this show couldn't possibly be any worse they put this episode out.

...

Plots holes, characters doing stupid stuff, almost every plot line being completely meaningless, bad dialog, over the top music. Boom Lost.....

BOOM Lost...

MamaThor: "Huhhhh... what was that?"

PapaThor: "So that's how they got Bernard back on the show."

MamaThor: "Yup. That's how they did it."

PapaThor: "That was really... huh... (thinking...)"

MamaThor: "Dumb? What details does a dentist know about an accident?"

PapaThor: "He could have just looked up Locke's accident in old newspapers at the library or called around to different hospitals. He's a doctor; he has access to all that. Watching this was a big waste of time."

MamaThor: "Good thing I taped another program tonight."

PapaThor: "Yeah, good thing."

THREE beloved main characters were killed off in the most contrived sloppy-action movie scenerio possible. The reason? I quote Darlton, in a post-episode non-spoiler interview on EW:


The main narrative reason for him killing our main characters is to establish how much of a bad guy he is and to clearly identify him as the antagonist rolling into the end of the series.



I'm not sure why that would be necessary. They give little reason to believe he was the good guy.

I now fully expect the twist at the end where he is really is the good guy and killing them actually helps them.

I completely agree with everyone. As others, I am mostly annoyed by the fact that we have invested so much time into the character development of Jin and Sun only to kill them off for no reason. At least Sayid had 'some' purpose (to save them I guess). For Lapidus, OK he was just a drawn out red shirt, so I get that.

Also, the whole show was annoying, they are on one island, then the other, they are apart, then together, they trust MIB, they don't trust MIB, ugh.......

...No, Jin just stands there like a moron and drowns with his wife and orphans his child...

So THREE of the major characters are killed off after nearly 6 complete seasons and I felt NOTHING. I was actually laughing when they died. This is how bad the writing has gotten over the past several seasons. I was laughing at the absurdity of how they finally killed these three characters off and was disappointed that they didn’t kill off Kate. They have destroyed every character on this show and I’ve been stating this since S4. I knew by the end of that season that when (as opposed to if) they killed other major characters off, I wouldn’t feel a thing. The last one they killed where you felt something was Charlie. Remember, Hugo telling Claire about Charlie in the S4 opener? You actually felt something. Tonight: laughter.

Any network or movie production company who would hire these people after this atrocity is simply insane. If this isn’t the definition of going through the motions for a paycheck, what is? What about pride in your work? I have more respect for the makers of soaps than these people. At least they tell you up front that their stuff is mindless garbage. I believe this show is officially the most overrated show in the history of television- not the worst, just the most overrated. All the build up of those first two seasons and the hype all along for this? Dreadful.

I agree. I actually listened to some LOST podcasts where people said they were crying over the Jin and Sun deaths. All eyes were dry in our house. Parents have no right to die a Romeo and Juliet death. It was just selfish.

Soap operas come to mind this season for me also. It's just one scene after another, switching around constantly, never following up and tying up any past story lines. The only resolution comes through explosions and gunfights.

Going through the motions is what they are doing. It reminds me of when I used to assign student papers to be approximately 3 pages or 1200 words or whatever. You could always tell which students were just filling up space until they got to the limit and then abruptly ending.
100%
Yeah I've read it. What's crazy is there's actually Lost fans out there who don't think that is insulting.

Problem is that I am not finding Chuck E Cheese that interesting. That is what parents do who don't really know why the sky is blue.

Right, to begin with I have to say I enjoyed this ep more than previous S6 efforts. There wasn't much alt, a lot of stuff happened (stupid and illogical stuff, admittedly), and everyone got screen time.

First off, Sayid. My favourite character overall, but after S4 they just didn't know what to do with him. What was all that zombie rubbish about? In the end we're expected to believe that zombism is like nicotine addiction, you can cure it by willpower alone. And then the Iraqi guy suicide bombs himself to death. Classy.

Everything else has been covered, I think. Sun is fine with Jin sacrificing himself and leaving their infant daughter orphaned. Forget real life, it doesn't make any sense from the point of the view of the character. Mind you, since Jin was also fine with Sun joining a SWAT raid without a weapon, I guess she was just repaying the compliment.Mindless stuff.

Well, it's still my favorite show just for the previous seasons, but it has gotten disapointingly mediocre. It's kind of like how I will always love 'The Empire Strikes Back' despite those awful starwars prequels. Or like how Twin Peaks got so bad midway through the 2nd season. And I don't think it has gotten as bad as either of those examples. I suppose it is still good by network TV standards.

I did think the episode was exciting, but on an emotional level not so good. This is not a good thing being that 4 main characters died.

I wish Lapidus had completed just one cool action before he had died (probably). He was likable and said a lot of clever things, but he didn't do that much. Even if he was meant to just be a trick so that we would expect that he would be the one flying the plane off the island, they should have still respected the character enough to have him do something cool before he died.

I am easily moved by emotional scenes, even when I don't particularly like the story of whatever I am watching, but the deaths of Sayid, Jin and Sun didn't do anything for me. I wish they had spent more time on character development for them before killing them. There really needs to be build up so that the emotional impact can be felt. There was no build up to these deaths. The character development needs to continue instead of relying on things that happened in previous seasons. Even when the remaining characters broke down and cried because of all the deaths, it was certainly more emotional than the death scenes themselves, but still I couldn't get into it. I really wanted to, but the feeling was just not there.

Oh well, I hope the finale redeems the season somewhat. I don't really care about mysteries not being solved. I would rather things remain mysteries rather than be unsatisfying, so there is no reason for me to not still love the previous seasons. I suppose if this season ends terribly I can just pretend it didn't happen and make up my own ending. It is fiction afterall.

...

Everything else has been covered, I think. Sun is fine with Jin sacrificing himself and leaving their infant daughter orphaned. Forget real life, it doesn't make any sense from the point of the view of the character. Mind you, since Jin was also fine with Sun joining a SWAT raid without a weapon, I guess she was just repaying the compliment.Mindless stuff.

It doesn't need to make sense anymore. This show is way beyond that mark. Yeah, the orphaning of the child...I wonder if the Lindeof has any idea how angry that made a lot of viewers. Selfish? Not only that, it makes you resent the characters completely. It's kinda like: "What? Is that the way Koreans think and act?"

I am calling out Daniel and Yun Jin on this one. You should have said something to the writers and the producers! That is poor, poor writing, and the both of you were complicit as far as I am concerned!

(deep breath)

My thought was that nearly everybody connected with this production is getting tired of the show. The writers seem to be uninspired as are many of the actors, several of whom, have quietly admitted that the show has evolved into nonsense.

Daniel Kim has wanted to move on for some time now (and I can certainly see why now), I am surprised he lasted this long. Yun Jin Kim....well....I think she figured out why she was being kept around, and I don't think she was too happy about it. But hey! It pays and pays well. Everybody connected with the production will say that.

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it was worth reposting.

Lets hear your hilarious situations where a candidate can be tricked to accidently kill another candidate!

What if a bomb was planted on a toilet like in Lethal Weapon where if you flushed the toilet the bomb went off? Hurley takes a gigantic dump in an outhouse and cannot flush the toilet due to the flushing mechanism being disabled by MIB. So Hurley leaves his dump in the toilet and seeks to wipe with a leaf. MIB then goes in and fixes the flushing mechanism. Jack uses the toilet a little bit later and disgusted by the present that Hurley left behind he attempts to clear the bowl...then boooooom! Would it work? Would Jack die? Is it Hurley's fault? What if Sawyer was standing next to the outhouse waiting in line? Would Sawyer die?

Killing Sun and Jin off was a TERRIBLE idea. It doesn't even make sense!

I will say it until I don't have any breath to say it - killing characters off of a show only verifies that the writers are not good enough to find new and unique ways for a character to grow, change, evolve, etc. The better choice would have been Sun and Jin being able to leave he Island to be together with their child.

They were a miserable couple at the beginning of the show - couldn't have children, Sun wanting to leave, Jin being so cruel to her - yes - they die in each other's arms - in love and declaring that love and not wanting to be apart - that's wonderful. But seeing this couple leave the Island - together - in love - and going to be with their child - a child they never thought they could have - and living that happy life together - that's an ending worth the character's growth and evolution. Not killling them! That's just a lame and unimaginable way of getting rid of excess characters.

So unworthy of such a beautiful couple!!

And they couldn't even come up with anything original to kill them off!!! They had to "re-use" a death scene!


BOOOOOOOO Writers!

… And another thing…

How many people were killed in this episode? Sayid, Jin, Sun and Lapidus. The two imbeciles outside the plane. More imbeciles by the sub- my favorite one being the guy rushing out of the brush essentially screaming, “Does being out in the open like this make it easier to kill me?” Probably at least a dozen. I’d be curious to know how many characters have been killed on the show, total- for all six seasons; then, broken down by each season. After just a handful in S1, it has escalated each subsequent season. Have these geniuses ever heard of the law of diminishing returns or becoming desensitized to violence? When you have so many characters getting killed EVERY week, it kind of loses its emotional impact after three seasons.

And I’m sorry; the line by James was also pitiful and laughable- something to the effect of: “We’re going to storm this thing (the sub) hard!” What, his alternate universe LAPD training was kicking in on the Island? Where’s his partner Miles when he really needs him, raiding the DHARMA donuts? Well, since Miles isn’t available, the next logical choice would of course be Sun… with no gun! Why not lead with Claire? At least she had a gun and one look at that badger on her head would probably make them run!

MarcB. I agree totally....I too wondered about the wisdom of the redhead who charged Locke on the dock...The character, and the thinking behind making the actor do this.

I love that they don't even get stuntmen anymore. It just looks like a random bunch of Yahoos...Someone suggested that the Nerd Brigade are all contest winners to be on LOST....I'm starting to believe it.

The body count thing is disgusting. It's just so noticeable that all these people are now around just to die anonymously. They're not even redshirts now, they're like deep BG war movie extras...It really is pathetic that they think that this is drama.

That Claire wig....gak!

I am disappointed more than angry. Think back to the first few episodes of this season, the ones which took place at the temple. What was the purpose of those scenes? What was the purpose of those new characters (the one who talked in Japanese and his translator)?

Also, this is a small point, but I was really bothered by how easily an 8-month or so pregnant Claire could get in and out of a chair...

I can no longer keep track of all of the different moves the various groups have made, nor do I understand the purpose of their moves. Perhaps all of this movement was the "Chuck E. Cheese"?

Every week I think "only x more weeks until the finale, so it'll definitely get better." After this episode, I don't think that anymore. I'm now preparing for BSG level of disappointment. There have been a couple of awesome episodes this season, but most are mediocre and this was one of the worst.

… And another thing…


Why not lead with Claire? At least she had a gun and one look at that badger on her head would probably make them run!




LOL! too much!

Every week I think "only x more weeks until the finale, so it'll definitely get better." After this episode, I don't think that anymore. I'm now preparing for BSG level of disappointment. There have been a couple of awesome episodes this season, but most are mediocre and this was one of the worst.

Yeah. I'm also bracing myself for BSG-level trainwreck. Even one of the Darlton's admitted that he thinks only his mother will approve of the ending he wrote. :rolleyes: I suppose that makes him some kind of avante-garde genius.

Yeah. I'm also bracing myself for BSG-level trainwreck. Even one of the Darlton's admitted that he thinks only his mother will approve of the ending he wrote. :rolleyes: I suppose that makes him some kind of avante-garde genius.

Well the BSG ending was widely panned even among that shows hardcore fans. Are Lost fans more willing to accept garbage than BSG fans?

I didn't watch BSG but I heard it was good up to the last episode. That is not the case with Lost, so it will be interesting to see how the conversation goes. I do feel that some people will not be able to admit disappointment to save face. Many podcasters for example would be loathe to admit they spent 4 hours a week for the last 6 years on something that was a waste of time.

At least I'm not going to be disappointed. I've already run through the 5 stages of grief. So I've already accepted it.

2. Why is there no one left on the LOST crew whose job it is to pay attention to blatant continuity errors? The sub gets entered, it's daytime. It sinks, they wash up on shore in the middle of the night? And what about the cages too?

Shockingly, there is a person on the crew whose entire job is to make sure of the continuity in the show. Certainly feels like they've been asleep at the wheel lately though, especially since the episode that they wrote is chock full of continuity errors. Considering their method of keeping track is apparently listing things in long Word documents, I'm not surprised how shoddy the continuity is. Somebody needs a lesson in organization and data management. Heck, they could just use Lostpedia and have a better outcome than what's been going on.


Problem is that I am not finding Chuck E Cheese that interesting. That is what parents do who don't really know why the sky is blue.

Exactly. Answers only lead to more questions when the answers are not conclusive or thought-out. They wouldn't have to sidetrack people's curiosity by waving shiny objects if they had thought out the answers and stories before tossing the mysteries and plotlines in to the show willy nilly. They are blaming the audience for their own shortcomings? That's class.
Discouraging your child's curiosity and shoving them in a ball pit because you don't want to deal with them sounds like bad parenting to me...

100%
Well the BSG ending was widely panned even among that shows hardcore fans. Are Lost fans more willing to accept garbage than BSG fans?

I didn't watch BSG but I heard it was good up to the last episode. That is not the case with Lost, so it will be interesting to see how the conversation goes. I do feel that some people will not be able to admit disappointment to save face. Many podcasters for example would be loathe to admit they spent 4 hours a week for the last 6 years on something that was a waste of time.

It seems to me that most people have already made up their mind. I hear plenty of people say "I'm reserving judgment until the end." But if they are forgiving all the garbage going on now, what could possibly upset them?
I think there will be plenty of people so deep in denial or so afraid of looking foolish that they will lavish love no matter what turd they are served.
I myself would be plenty forgiving if Darlton just had the cajones to fess up to the mess they created, instead of deflecting every accusation on to an insatiable audience and blaming a lack of time. Or if they themselves hadn't cultivated this desire from us in the first place.

Darlton at this point can actually come out, insult their audience, and have half of that same audience come back and call them brilliant masterful writers. Or the people who say "oh it's just a show, enjoy the ride!" at the same time they agonize over a theory to excuse a blatant continuity error. Or who 2 years ago would of flamed me off the forum for suggesting something didn't have meaning behind it and was just for entertainment value, because it's JUST a show. It's no different than any other cult of personality. I'd been a staunch defender of Lost for a long time now, but luckily I was raised to question everything, and I don't just take things at face value. When evidence presents itself to the contrary, I follow the evidence. They have truly become "teflon dons" and I don't imagine them having any trouble laughing all the way to the bank or even being hired for lucrative positions on new projects.

Maybe we will all be wrong and the ending will be amazing, but if the rest of this season is any indicator, I strongly doubt it.

I can understand that early on they had to bring in mystery elements without knowing how they were going to wrap them up, as they had no idea how long the show would run for. I'm frustrated with what they've been doing since they agreed an end date, particularly what they've been doing this season. It feels like different people are writing the show one episode after the next, with no overall plan or story arcs other than a list of which characters need to be at which locations at the end of each episode.

I felt I was supposed to be interested in things like Sayid being resurrected and "infected". They seemed to spend quite a long time on this. Then he kinda decided he wasn't infected, then he died. Was that really the plan they had when they introduced it? How is this a meaningful story arc? Why bother introducing the idea at all?

I feel like I'm supposed to wonder about the mysterious motivations of the MiB and Widmore, but the more I look at it the less it makes any kind of sense. Speculating about the show was something that was actively encouraged in the first few seasons, but now it feels like something you're punished for.

They highlighted the idea about 'the rules' specifically in relation to explosives earlier this season, again I felt as something to speculate about. The time travel idea last season of 'whatever happened, happened' (i.e. if you go back in time you won't be able to kill Hitler, because even if you try you already know you failed) was interesting, it could have been silly but was quite subtly handled. It raised interesting questions about determinism vs. free will. This season's "he can't kill them directly, and maybe they can't kill themselves but maybe they can kill each other" is a weird one in the first place, for me it doesn't really relate to anything outside the mythological rules of the show. The bomb on the sub idea was really clumsy, and just highlights the goofiest magical aspects to it.

I think in the end a hard core of the die hard fans will basically say that the rules were whatever was written in the script could happen and whatever wasn't couldn't, and characters like Widmore, Jacob & the MiB's goals were to do whatever they did. You can't really prove that that's wrong in mythology terms, but I think it's a really dissapointing end to a TV show I loved.

Man, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes.

Sonic fence goes down. "Get some men over to the generator right now!" Wait, why didn't you ALREADY have some dudes guarding the single point of failure for your entire defense system?

Kate gets thrown in a cage with the rest of them, either forgets her 20-second cage escape from season 3 or has been hitting the trans fats too hard lately to fit.

Smokey strolls toward the plane, gets shot roughly 20 times and kills the two guards. None of the special effects people thought to poke some holes in his shirt. Hey, here's a thought: he's not invincible at all, Widmore's people just really, really suck at aiming.

I keep saying "next week is sure to be awesome!" I was kind of right with the Desmond-centric ("awesome" in comparison with the rest of this train wreck season, anyway), but I'm really starting to feel like an idiot for recommending this show to people who haven't watched for a few seasons.

-steve

I'll tell you what else is irritating me. They keep "referencing" stuff that has happened in earlier seasons, by having situations which are a bit similar, or lines which are the same. I don't understand the point of it. If you're going to address the earlier seasons, why not add something which explains some of the the hundreds of mysteries from back then. Just repeating a line, or having someone do something similar, does not add or advance anything, it's just a silly wink to the audience, who cares about that?

In the development process, did they really say "Then Jack could say - 'I wish you'd believe me' - which would be a bit like what John said in his message to Jack..."? Then did the rest of the room break into a standing ovation? Wasn't there anybody to say "Why?" It's a waste of time in my opinion, and it's frustrating seeing time used up like that, when there's so little left to tell this story, with hundreds of loose ends.

Not that I'm in any way defending anyone that has anything to do with this mess, but that absolutely stupid line did make Locke think. Combined with the dreams, maybe he'll change his mind and i can have my John back somehow.
This season really is a faliure in so many ways.I can guess what's going to happen, I say a line and they pretty much repeat it on screen. Just like so many other shows on TV, which is why Lost is the only thing I watch unless it's political or historical.
This has been a real disappointment at what they have done to one of the best show's ever aired. But I can make up my own ending or one of you will and then I'll be happy

not that these things haven't already been said, but...

is no one related in any way to this show a parent? i mean, honestly. what kind of mother would be so selfish as to, when faced with death, decide that it's totally worth it to have her husband die with her and have their child be an orphan? it's ludicrous. so you wanted to kill jin too - ok. but at least have the tearful scene where sun tells him he has to save himself for ji yeon's sake before he meets his downfall somewhere else in the "poseidon adventure". it's a sinking sub - probably a bunch more ways to kill him off. then maybe we would have felt something.

and we're forgetting the ji yeon could still be "the kwon"... :grin:

ps - seriously - i couldn't get in and out of a chair that well when i was 5 months pregnant, let alone 8 months. just talk to one woman who's had a child. it's not hard to find one...

I have refrained from commenting, hoping that things would make sense, that TPTB would eventually tie everything together in a couple of episodes and I would say, doh that makes sense. I thought I might be getting that in the Desmond Centric episode, after all they alluded to Jin needing to show them something from a map he created which would have played nicely into the 1970's flash.

Now I am just dumbfounded. I began watching the first 3 seasons on DVD. I remember my wife and I lying in bed saying, sure one more episode, oh wait we have to see one more now after that ending, doing this until 3AM and finally succombing to get a few hours sleep. Now this is what we get. My wife gave up at the end of season 5, but I held strong hoping that everything would make sense, and now I give up.

For gosh sakes, if you are just going to keep Sayid around as a zombified character that is nothing like what we have grown to know, only to take off running with a make shift bomb and get blown up, they should have just let him die from the gun shot. At least the gun shot scene was somewhat emotional.

We have 4 sesons invested in Sun and Jin developing their relationship. Countless FB's and FF's developing their character, only to have them die with no meaning. I would have been much happier if Tina Fey would have just mistaken one of them for an elk and popped them on the beach last episode. Oh and I guess we will never know which Kwon was the candidate. After all that was important enough to invest quite a bit of dialogue about over this season.

I agree with the many posters who have spoken to not caring about orphaning their daughter. Surely Jin would have said, No Jin, you have to go for our daughter! Freaking horrible writing.

Why have we even had Kwon Centric and Sayid Centric episodes this season if they were going to die as such. If the writers knew all along that it was going to boil down to Kate, Sawyer, Jack, and Hurley; then why not invest more time in developing a better way for the others to die. Jeez!

That entire episode felt like it was written by a 10 year old kid who'd forgotten to take his ritalin. Lots of stuff going on but none of it entertaining

That is an insult to 10 year olds on ritalin!

The only reason I watch Lost anymore is 1. To see TOQ get all Stepfatherly on everyone and 2. To get even a glimpse of Titus Welliver. I've had a crush on him since Deadwood. I did like one thing about this episode: Sun, Jin and Sayid have finally been put out of their misery.What a waste of good actors and characters.

OTOH, my 11 year old really enjoyed the episode, which says a lot because his favorite show is Yu Gi Oh.

i didn't hate the episode actually. i haven't hated the last 3. before that i hated every single one of this series.

the reason i'm not hating anymore? apathy. pure apathy. never in a million years did i think i'd get to the final season of Lost (used to call it my fave show EVER) and not actually care. how has it come to this? such a shame. these guys had hit of the decade in their hands and chucked it all away with lazy writing and not caring about what the fans cared about. the show is basically already over, but i must watch it to the bitter (and OMG it WILL be bitter!) endjustify all the time i've put into it.

thanks for that link to the Wired interview. that cured my apathy good and proper. it turned it into pure anger and hate for those pair of *not gonna swear*! how insulting to be compared to an overly curious 3 year old! how can they present those mysteries to us then insult us when we ask what they mean? why not just admit they wrote stuff in the heat of the moment and now can't magic up an explanation for what they mean? i was disgusted with them whilst reading that interview. one thing i've learned is to never watch a show made by those clowns again. if i see anyone, bar the actors, from Lost is involved in anotehr show i'll give it a nice wide berth. i'm not falling for the scam of a show again.

now, one point about the particular episode which i haven't read anyone point out. tho may have missed it in the posts:

sawyer was knocked out and jack had to get him out of the sub and to the surface. so how did sawyer not drown? o right, jack rammed an oxygen cylinder into his mouth. riiiiiight. cos of course it's natural when you're knocked out to clamp your jaws round an oxygen cylinder and not let in any water. yeah, of course. o and the nose? well when you're knocked out it's also a natural reaction to hold your nose, just in case you're escaping from a blown up submarine that, from the great effects, looks 20,000 leagues under the sea.

… And another thing…

How many people were killed in this episode? Sayid, Jin, Sun and Lapidus. The two imbeciles outside the plane. More imbeciles by the sub- my favorite one being the guy rushing out of the brush essentially screaming, “Does being out in the open like this make it easier to kill me?” Probably at least a dozen. I’d be curious to know how many characters have been killed on the show, total- for all six seasons; then, broken down by each season. After just a handful in S1, it has escalated each subsequent season. Have these geniuses ever heard of the law of diminishing returns or becoming desensitized to violence? When you have so many characters getting killed EVERY week, it kind of loses its emotional impact after three seasons.


I so agree with this!

Like many others, Sayid was one of my favorites on the show for a long time. When he died, I felt ... nothing. In fact, I rolled my eyes. If you'd told me back in Season One that that would be my reaction to his eventual death, I wouldn't have believed you.

It's not just the lack of development or the zombification of the characters that causes this, it's the fact that for a while now, when a character dies, they come back. Either as a zombie or in the alt verse, or in some other time period.

So yeah, I've been completely desensitized to the "deaths" of these characters. There's no emotional payoff whatsoever.

I agree with what everyone has said about the treatment of Sayid, Sun and Jin and the way they died...what stupid senseless storytelling. Not one of their deaths had even the slightest emotional impact for me.

Regarding Sun, Jin and Ji Yeon...what made her not urging Jin to live for their daughter even worse (if it could be made worse) is the fact that Sun is supposed to hate her father and presumably be underwhelmed with him as a dad....she's then gonna feel good enough to entrust her daughter to him without urging Jin to go for her. Minor point maybe but it just shows for me how they're not even honoring the story they've told. As a parent all I can say is nonsensical and unbelievable.

As for Sayid...how they did that to Naveen Andrews and the character, the baddest of the badasses, is horrendous. Totally didn't get any sense of vindication that Sayid was our Sayid again and went out in a blaze of noble, selfless glory...it was just too stupid for that. No closure for the tortured torturer, no closure for Nadia's tortured lover...just torture for the viewer. I mean did his death have anything meaningful to do with the story we've watched for the past six years? Didn't seem so to me. Seemed like the just decided they had to shrink the pack down and it was time for him to go.

I'm just happy that these three actors, whose work I've enjoyed, don't have to be subjected to this garbage anymore.

At least they're setting up to answer ONE of the really big mysteries...will Kate end up with Jack or Sawyer.

Yes that was a stab at sarcasm.

I get it...Everyone who dies on the island is going to end up in the reality where they belong. But....why are they dying in such brutal ways?

At least they're setting up to answer ONE of the really big mysteries...will Kate end up with Jack or Sawyer.

Yes that was a stab at sarcasm.

Probably not, that would entail them acknowledging six plus seasons of storytelling. No time for that, gotta get to the all important end. What? A substantial part of the audience thought this had anything to do with the show because they pimped it hard and crammed it down our throats for six seasons? Oh well, sorry...you're not watching the show you thought you were watching...it's all about MIB and Jacob, you know the characters we met ...what...a half hour ago Everyone else is just cannon fodder

Yeah I would be interested in that too, though I don't know how you could split up the demographics in any meaningful way with so few options, if you were to make a poll on here. I made one a while ago because I had assumed that people of faith (in real life) would be the people who had faith in the show, and people who were agnostic / atheist would people the people who were tiring of it. But the votes that people made were not consistent with my theory.

That's funny, because I had the opposite theory: A person who is really strong in their faith wouldn't need to seek a new mythology in LOST. But perhaps it is more like if you have an established philosophy, whether it be Catholicism or atheism, you are less interested in watching a hodge-podge of dead-end plots and allusions to great thinkers that end up having no bearing whatsoever on anything. If you are a person who is still searching, you may be more likely to ascribe meaning to Chuck E Cheese. :)

After Happily ever after I thought "Finally, a breaktrough..." Instead, they've kept moving from one island to another with no particular purpose...
You guys named every single reason why this episode sucked, and I agree.
Having said that, I must add that this season is season for itself with lots of loose ends that can't connect it with previous seasons. I mean, what can they do with only few episodes left?
IMHO, nothnig, except explaining MIB and Jacob and ALT. And that's it - thanks for watching...

Here's what I think is going to happen. The last few hours of Lost, which will be written by Darlton, will probably be pretty good tv. I think the one thing they've proven is that working together they can write compelling episodes (even the ones they've written this depressing season have been among the better ones, albeit among a really, really bad batch of episodes). There will be some big surprises in these last hours, and the will wrap up most of the mysteries raised this season -- MIB and Jacob, etc. They'll probably even address a few older mysteries that many of us have despaired of them addressing. And they'll leave a pile of stuff -- even from this season, such as Dogen -- vague or subject to multiple explanations or unanswered.

The folks who still have "faith" in the show will be able to say they were vindicated. Those who have lost faith (like me) will grudgingly say they liked the episodes but were disappointed overall, and then will start picking them apart.

This season has been an absolute disaster. Nothing that happens in the last 4 hours is going to magically make the bad writing, awful dialogue, etc. magically be seen as brilliant in retrospect. Darlton made a poor decision to create the flashsideways, and it ruined the narrative and confined them to an awkward storytelling device that hamstrung their other writers (who also seem to be just phoning it in, besides). And I agree with most on this thread that Darlton appears to have had much less of the overall story arc planned out than we would have guessed, especially given the hundreds of hours of interviews, podcasts, etc. where they suggested otherwise (guess they should have spent more of that time writing).

And I could be wrong that the final episodes will be better -- it may be impossible for them to save it.

It does bug me that Damon and Carlton have been saying since season one that they have things planned out. And then they changed their tune to say they've had things planned out since season three. And then they said they only came up with the idea of the flash sideways after season 4.

But in spite of all that, there are still things from this season that have either been abandoned or contradicted or total wastes of time.

And it's so unnecessary. How hard would it have been to work some things out and stick to them? Maybe if they'd done that, things wouldn't be so obviously rushed in these last few episodes.

Maybe they could have made the deaths in 'The Candidate' actually resonate. (I've spoken to several casual Lost fans since it aired, who are usually really positive, and they were all disappointed with how Sun and Jin's deaths were handled).

Seems this thread has gone off track again. It is for discussion of "The Candidate"

I'm now preparing for BSG level of disappointment.

This (LOST) is what Battlestar Galactica would have been like if they'd stretched it to 6 seasons.


PS. And at least the end of BSG was about the same standard as the rest of it.

The show has killed way too many characters off. I still remember how I cried like a baby when Boone died in season 1 and last night I didn't feel anything when Sayid, Sun, Jin and Frank were killed off. In fact, I didn't even notice that Frank had been killed off until I read it on the internet. What a way to go. A blink or you miss it moment.

I'm also bracing myself for BSG-level trainwreck.
To me, that's optimistic.

Seems this thread has gone off track again. It is for discussion of "The Candidate"

Sam:

Just curious -- do you mean that it's inappropriate for this to turn into a "what I hate about Season 6" or "let's speculate about what's going to happen" thread? It seems to me that what people are saying to a certain degree, even if it's unstated, is "this episode is symptomatic of what I dislike about S6" and/or "which is why I think the ending is going to be more of the same (or different)."

For instance, I could have started my post above with "I think The Candidate was awful, because the plot was illogical, the dramatic moments without resonance (especially given that the characters are alive in the FS -- talk about the writers trying to have their cake and eat it to!), and the writing in general was not up to the level of prior seasons. So I would agree with other posters that this episode falls into the category of the multiple crumpled boxcars in this season's ongoing, slow-motion trainwreck. BUT, I do think that the final episodes may be different. Here's what I think is going to happen...."

I didn't do that because it seemed repetititve of other posts, which have exhaustively covered the problems with the episode. I'm just a bit surprised that we can't take the criticism to a more general level without it being deemed off track.

Again, not trying to argue about the forum's rules, I just don't quite understand them in this context....

A couple of unmentioned things I hated about the episode:

"Why are you telling me this?"


Pointing a gun at Kate to get one of the other characters to stand down. This has been tired since Season 2. I had hoped we had seen the last of this trope!

This episode had the potential for at least a semi-climactic moment, as most of the main Losties were together and the UnLocke and Widmore forces were to collide.

So at the end of the hour there is no showdown with Widmore, nothing really accomplished except that they've sunk the sub, killed four main characters off like red shirts, and wounded Kate and I guess Sawyer -- and nothing is really clarified about the Rules or Widmore's purpose or who matters. And the Alt was bad.

All of this leads to an even stronger feeling that we won't like the Finale very much.

In fact, I didn't even notice that Frank had been killed off until I read it on the internet. What a way to go. A blink or you miss it moment.

OMG!!!! Frank is DEAD???

LOL I didn't notice either til I came on the board and read a post that mentioned it so you're not the only one ...and I liked tha character a lot. Think I registered it when it happened and then soo much happened afterward that I just kind of forgot it. Don't know if that says something about the show, my memory or my ADD...one minute, is that Chuck E. Cheese? MMMM Chuck E. Cheese

Someone is going to have to explain the whole Chuck E Cheese thing to us outside the US?

Same with the Tina Fey references :) she's not THAT well known over here. :)

I liked bits of this epi, but such a lot was illogical.

Totally agree that the deaths of Sayid, Jin and Sun didn't strike a chord, partly my own fault as I've seen the name of a forthcoming episode, but also because I think they are all gonna end up alive in the flashsideways, remembering everything, so why feel sad for them?

This season has had some great moments, but it's been far too slow. It's a waste.

This is the best tv show I've ever seen, I love it, but they've practically ruined it right at the last moment.

I think the last few epi's will be great, but how can they wrap up everything satisfactorily?

And another thing...

Sayid saves (some of) them by running away with the bomb. Here's a thought, why didn't they think of not taking the wires out AND taking the bomb somewhere else on the sub? It had a while to go on the timer, they would have had time to take it somewhere better on the sub, then get back and wait. By then they would have been not so far from the surface either, easier escape. Could be argued they were panicking and didn't think. But really it was a logical option, given the two illogical options of
A) Do nothing, it won't hurt us honestly! and
B) Pull the wires out of the son of a b****, I know what I'm doing you son of a b****

In comparison, C) Get the bomb as far away as possible from us

seems quite good right, and not complicated to think of?

Could be argued they were panicking and didn't think

Problem with this is Sayid never panicked...oh, I have a minute and a half to fix a computer or I don't know what will happen...let me focus, not ask stupid questions and get about working ...there will be time for questions later...

Now granted a computer is not a bomb but I cannot think of a situation where Sayid ever panicked and did something stupid

They have just gotten painfully sloppy with the characters and the story they've told

And another thing...

Sayid saves (some of) them by running away with the bomb. Here's a thought, why didn't they think of not taking the wires out AND taking the bomb somewhere else on the sub? It had a while to go on the timer, they would have had time to take it somewhere better on the sub, then get back and wait. By then they would have been not so far from the surface either, easier escape. Could be argued they were panicking and didn't think. But really it was a logical option, given the two illogical options of
A) Do nothing, it won't hurt us honestly! and
B) Pull the wires out of the son of a b****, I know what I'm doing you son of a b****

In comparison, C) Get the bomb as far away as possible from us

seems quite good right, and not complicated to think of?

No, not very complicated to logical people. You're right, they took it out of the backpack and we didn't see the timer for several seconds but when we first saw it, it had I think 3:54 seconds on it. So when Jack first took it out of the pack it must have been about 4 minutes. Plenty of time to take it to the farthest place away on the ship,and then CLOSE ALL THE DOORS BETWEEN THEM AND THE BOMB!!!! My wife and I were both saying as Sayid ran away that either he or someone else should be closing the doors, ar at least the door to their compartment. Unbelievable.

Even with 1:30 left on the timer before brilliant Sawyer pulls the wires, that's still a good amount of time to get the bomb away and contain it by closing doors. 45 seconds to place it somewhere, 45 seconds to run back.

Nothing much to add, as many - especially colin72 - have said it all, and very eloquently too! The "didn't love it"-threads lately have almost (but not quite) made up for the fact that I've used up a significant amount of my highly limited cognitive resources over the last 6 years on analyzing and trying to find meaning in what inevitably seems to be a giant pile of dung.

What I find interesting (and slightly disturbing) is that I managed to somehow Chuck-E-Cheese myself for several seasons, and am only now able to see - with terrible clarity - that the proverbial Emperor isn't entirely naked, perhaps, but very scantily clad indeed.

In retrospect it seems so obvious that what we have witnessed is indeed the spreading of 12 episodes worth of butter over 108+ episodes of bread (108, get it? *wink wink*). This provides one of the few truly exhaustive and logically consistent answers we will ever get: it explains the rather rapid transformation of the characters from fairly believable plane crash survivors doing what seems reasonable in their situation (building shelters, trying to contact civilization, being bewildered by and actually discussing inexplicable events) into a bunch of dummies who are happy to witness anything without question, who never discuss anything of importance among themselves, and who almost seem to feed off cryptic non-answers to their few-and-far-between attempts to milk something out of characters who seem to know what's going on.

(Although in retrospect it seems that most them were actually cryptic because they really didn't know a thing, but were embarrassed to admit it. It's either "Yeah, you know, I've roamed this island for a good 140 years doing all kinds of weird stuff, but essentially without a clue. And the one time I spoke with the dudes who probably know everything I forgot to ask." or "Hey, look! It's a Chuck-E-Cheese!" I'd go for the diversion, make a quiet exit and hope they don't ask me any tough questions anymore.)

So, instead of what for quite long seemed to be an intricate web of mysteries woven by some demi-god-like storytellers what we had all along was a fairly simple little story, which when stretched out over 6 seasons required the characters to behave like morons most of the time lest they give away the plot several years too early.

And since we've been told it's all about the characters - and the characters are all morons - then the show is actually about ...

Oh well, it's all about the journey.

Donga Ton,
Chuck E. Cheese is a pizza chain here in the US geared towards young children. Along with eating pizza, children can play games in the restaurant. It's being cited often in relation to LOST because of an interview the producers gave in Wired magazine (http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/)

http://www.chuckecheese.com/

I just can't believe that they keep adding bombs to the show. When they added dynamite from the black rock I was OK with it. But now its just getting rediculous.

I just can't believe that they keep adding bombs to the show. When they added dynamite from the black rock I was OK with it. But now its just getting rediculous.

"Just getting"?

The show has been like this since 'Orientation' with Locke & Jack first arguing about whether or not to enter the numbers on the Swan computer while the counter approached zero.

Why not just enter the numbers once, then discuss it calmly?

"Just getting"?

The show has been like this since 'Orientation' with Locke & Jack first arguing about whether or not to enter the numbers on the Swan computer while the counter approached zero.

Why not just enter the numbers once, then discuss it calmly?

Well I understand that things are done from dramas sake and this show has always required a huge suspension of disbelief, but these days the plots are so convoluted with no promise of them even trying to have it make sense. You can almost hear them saying "we have no respect for your intelligence so shut up and watch this action sequence".

It has certainly become more and more unbelievable every season, but here at the end it's not even fun, it's insulting.

The recent revelation on the Official Lost podcast that the rules as to why Ben could not kill Widmore has nothing to do with the rules governing the candidates and that they will never explain the Ben/Widmore rules is just more insult.

This show will be unrewatchable. It's like they came in my house and broke all my DVDs because seasons 1-5 will be full of unexplained nonsensical moments that never panned out.

Having points of debate after a show ends is one thing. Usually you can debate the theme or the underlying meaning, but not actual plot points. But any further debate is going to go like this "I think Widmore/Ben couldn't kill each other because of some gentlemans rules" "neither of them were gentlemen so why would they let them stop them?" "I don't know"

This episode was atrocious on so many levels. My biggest annoyance is that I can't believe that Sun, Jin, Sayid and Frank died and I didn't care at all. The writers have done such an injustice to those characters. They have pulled them so far away from the viewers that even their deaths were meaningless.

I have all the other dvds, but I will not be buying this season. To my husband and I, this show completed its run at the end of season 5 with the bomb detonating.

Last episode Jack said he was not leaving the Island.
Suddenly, he changed his mind and ran off to the sub leaving! I mean, c'mon guys...

Jack is running toward the sub and Locke told him that whoever told him to stay he didn't know what is he saying. Jack answered that John Locke told him to stay and suddenly changed his mind and left. Poor!

I'm still upset about this episode and the unceremonious end of my favorite character. This what I posted in the "rate the episode" thread.

But far, far worse was Sayid's offscreen death, which was just a minor subplot to somebody else's big death episode--and took place in the middle of a chaotic action scene so it didn't have much more impact than the scene would have had without it. Sure, poor Sayid spent the end of season 5 and the first half of season 6 slowly bleeding his guts out, died once, and got resurrected as a zombie. But after all he's done for the team and all he's been through, this great character deserved far more for his grand exit. Particularly since he died to save everyone (as we had long suspected he would)--Jin just died so Sun wouldn't die alone.

Apart from the total lack of Michael Giacchino treatment, Sayid's death was extremely frustrating in that we still don't understand his zombie state of mind, or how or to what extent he returned to his normal self. We've seen nothing of Sayid's thought processes since his resurrection. Now we'll never know.

This episode was atrocious on so many levels. My biggest annoyance is that I can't believe that Sun, Jin, Sayid and Frank died and I didn't care at all. The writers have done such an injustice to those characters. They have pulled them so far away from the viewers that even their deaths were meaningless.

I have all the other dvds, but I will not be buying this season. To my husband and I, this show completed its run at the end of season 5 with the bomb detonating.

We feel the same way. We didn't care much for these characters at that point, plus the Sun and Jin reunion this season took way too long to happen. Their death scene was truly meaningless and you would have thought that in a situation like this, that they would be speaking from their hearts - in Korean, not English.

This episode like so many others this season didn't hit the target. It's as if the story is there, but the way it is being told is all wrong. We thought that by this point the story would be leading up to something exciting. But this episode was a let down.

P. S. We don't think we've seen so many posts in a "Didn't Love It" thread before this. This is really sad.

What's even more frustrating is Lindelof's response to the Jin-Sun scene during the latest podcast. As a parent, he's OK with Jin staying with Sun instead of wanting to try and get off the Island to be his daughter, who is a living memory of Sun. Lindelof is saying how Jin had to wrestle with his decision and only had 20 seconds to make it, and ultimately he chose to stay with the woman that he loved. Well, it's nice to know he was thinking that but it would have been much better to have Jin and Sun talk about that, so the viewers know it's a gut wrenching decision. The way it was presented makes it seem that Sun and Jin didn't care about Ji Yeon at all since they never even mentioned her.

They also said that they wanted half the candidates to die at once to show how 'evil' Smokey/MiB was, yet Jin didn't die because of that since they state it was his choice. Oh, and they wanted the viewer to realize that no one is safe and everyone can die. Maybe they don't realize that last statement would hold more weight if there wasn't a FS with the remaining characters all still alive.:rolleyes:

The way it was presented makes it seem that Sun and Jin didn't care about Ji Yeon at all since they never even mentioned her.
Maybe the writers themselves had forgotten when they wrote that scene:
I can tell you that we received [new script] pages as we were shooting the episode that added a scene in the bear cages where Jin asks what happened to Ji Yeon. And you hear Jin asking Sun who's taking care of the girl. And so that was deliberately put in there so that he would know that she wasn't completely an orphan.Source (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b179561_what_about_ji_yeon_daniel_dae_kim.html)

They also said that they wanted half the candidates to die at once to show how 'evil' Smokey/MiB wasAs if we didn't already know that... How many people did the thing kill already?

yeah bailey's dad. i've seen you around here since the beginnings, so i knows your a true fan. i agree, this last epi left me sad and lost, what is the point anymore? i need closure, but not necessarily death and destruction of every last character, and i feel like a lot of the answers about the island are coming too quickly, too easily,ipso facto and what not!

I've been a contributor on another Lost forum since season 1, but I have decided to exile myself to this place as I have always thought the discussions here were more on the mature side, and people don't insult each other when bringing up negative points. Anyway, back to this episode...


I think this was the episode that finally pushed me over the edge and think that this show isn't worth getting excited about anymore. Since about season 4 I have had this little voice in my head often telling me things like “oh no don't tell me they just did that”, or “there is no sane reason to do that” and lately it's been getting louder and louder. It's like a boxing match where I'm up against the writers and for this episode-round the logic in my corner just decided to throw in the towel and say we're not taking anymore punishment. In the past I was ready to give TPTB the benefit of the doubt, but with the way this season has gone, with the way this episode unraveled, with the little time left, and with the extra 30 minutes added to the finale I have come to the conclusion that the writers have no idea what they are doing.


I won't get into the absurdness of all of the bad scenes in this episode because most of my gripes have already been discussed, but I do feel like I need to vent about the sub scene.


Here they are on the sub, all relieved to be getting out of there (including Jack who just earlier said he wasn't leaving). Kate is badly injured, and Jack just so happens to remember he has a clean shirt in his pack. It was predictable that with a few episodes to go that the sub wasn't going to go anywhere and just as I had guess there was a wrench in the gears - an explosive device.


I think any sane person in their position would have recognized the bomb, noticed it was portable and tried to get it as far away from them as possible. Who in their right minds would start arguing about Locke, rules, the island etc... just get the damn thing out of the room! Even my gf who is less critical of movies and tv shows was wondering why they didn't put it in another room and lock the large metal doors, or even release it through some kind of pressurized hatch.


After the cat fight between Jack and Sawyer, Zombie Sayid decides to take one for the team and go running off with the device. Sayid's death has to rank right up there with Charlie's as being pointless. They kill him earlier in the season, bring him back as a walking vegetable, and then make him go out with a bang without any last words, any slow motions scenes or anything we could remember him by. I couldn't believe that they would disrespect such a fan favorite character with a death scene of that nature.


The explosion itself managed to cause some damage, but everyone looked physically fine (including the conveniently placed oxygen bottles), except for poor Sun who somehow has managed to get pinned under some large objects. I was wondering why her and Jin were talking in English the whole episode and then realized it was just another lame device used by the writers to have them say one last line for dramatic effect. Are the writers writing a prime time tv show or short stories in high school English class? We had to put up with them looking for each other for a ridiculously long time, only to have them get killed off shortly after they get reunited, and as a bonus leave their daughter as an orphan. Of course they will probably pull a Kundun and do something ridiculous with their daughter.


I won't even get into Lapidus's death because most people knew that plane wasn't going anywhere, and he would be of no special use. He was just a glorified red shirt who got more screen time than he deserved.


I didn't also get how Hurley was going to make it to the surface, and how Kate would survive the trip up. She had a bullet go through her so i'm guessing she can't breathe too well, and Hurley's ascent would be quite slow because the sub was still a five minutes from reaching the surface.


Argh stupid, lazy, illogical writing has done this show in. At this point I think I will give my DVDs away to whichever friend wants them because with all the time invested in this show, and how bad it has become, I won't be watching it again after the finale. Not only have they made the previous seasons pointless now, but they have made the entire temple part of this season pointless too. From listening to Darlton's arrogant podcasts lately I hope they mess things up even more just to spite them. Yeah i've reached that point...:undecide:

If you're going to use a submarine as a setting, shouldn't you find out something about submarines?

This should be fairly obvious, but the water usually isn't very deep right next to ports. Diving a submarine so close to the island would have run it aground. But according to the captain, it will take five minutes for them to surface. Yeah right, surfacing is one of the fastest things a submarine can do, and you're at least a couple hundred feet down if it is going to take you five minutes to get back up, especially if you'd just gotten underway a few moments ago.

This also means that after the bomb exploded, the ship would have been sinking even further, and Hurley and Jack would have had to swim probably something like 400 foot dragging an unconscious person with them. By the time they all got out of the water, they should have been dying from decompression sickness. Or the sub should have been crushed like an aluminum can before they even got out. But whatever! You got to kill some characters in a submarine, which is like so totally cool!

As an avid Lost fan I too am disappointed the way this season is panning out. Sun and Jin died - I didn't care. Such things lose their impact when there's another timeline where they are alive and well (or well-ish). The whole thing seems messy and confused. What does MIB really want? I don't really care about that too much either. As a Locke fan I'm only hoping now for some kind of redemption in his character at the show's conclusion. At least TOQ's superb acting keeps me glued to the screen.

If you're going to use a submarine as a setting, shouldn't you find out something about submarines?

This should be fairly obvious, but the water usually isn't very deep right next to ports. Diving a submarine so close to the island would have run it aground. But according to the captain, it will take five minutes for them to surface. Yeah right, surfacing is one of the fastest things a submarine can do, and you're at least a couple hundred feet down if it is going to take you five minutes to get back up, especially if you'd just gotten underway a few moments ago.

This also means that after the bomb exploded, the ship would have been sinking even further, and Hurley and Jack would have had to swim probably something like 400 foot dragging an unconscious person with them. By the time they all got out of the water, they should have been dying from decompression sickness. Or the sub should have been crushed like an aluminum can before they even got out. But whatever! You got to kill some characters in a submarine, which is like so totally cool!Don't forget that the whole scene could have been avoided had Jack said "Hey, don't worry about it. As long as Sawyer stays near the bomb, everything should be fine (candidates can't kill themselves)". So three Season 1 characters were killed on a technicality (because Sayid, who had been consumed by evil, suddenly decided to be heroic). Awesome writing!

If you're going to use a submarine as a setting, shouldn't you find out something about submarines?

This should be fairly obvious, but the water usually isn't very deep right next to ports. Diving a submarine so close to the island would have run it aground. But according to the captain, it will take five minutes for them to surface. Yeah right, surfacing is one of the fastest things a submarine can do, and you're at least a couple hundred feet down if it is going to take you five minutes to get back up, especially if you'd just gotten underway a few moments ago.

It's called "blowing the tanks", and it makes the sub surface so fast it practically jumps out of the water. It's like holding a beach ball under water and letting it go.

"Periscope depth" is something that Widmore's sub captain also convienently forgot about. Oopsie! He must be a man of faith because he tried to navigate away from docks and through a lagoon blind.

The whole sub fiasco reminded me of the scene in the movie "Throw mama from the train" where Billy Crystal is an English teacher forced to listen to awful student compositions. One lady had a submarine story and she knew nothing about what she wrote about. She grew up to be Elizabeth Sarnoff. :biggrin:

The recent revelation on the Official Lost podcast that the rules as to why Ben could not kill Widmore has nothing to do with the rules governing the candidates and that they will never explain the Ben/Widmore rules is just more insult.

I agree. It really does not make any sense. If they dont have room to explain some of these things we're never going to know about, then obviously they should have started to address some of them in season 5, or, reconsider the whole Temple side story that took up almost half this season. Its so frustrating watching now and seeing them spin up more questions, more loose ends, while still not nailing all that much down.

This episode had all sorts of problems. Just about everything on the sub was a train wreck. The bomb, how they handled it, the rules, the deaths of characters being poorly written, the sub's depth, very poor -its just a TV show- hand waves (you cant get off a sinking sub with water pressure coming in and if you did, you'd probably drown or have the bends anyway and what's worse - this is painfully obvious even if you dont know anything about subs - I mean just look at what you are seeing on screen).

I suppose I'll leave it at that. Others raised a lot of points. I didnt like this episode and its very disappointing to have such a poor showing this late in the finale season with so much left unanswered. Still looking forward to the finale, but it seems tie-ins to mysteries in early seasons on rewatch are gone, which hurts rewatchability a bit. In fact right now, I'm just hoping the finale is enjoyable and doesnt outright contradict early seasons, since we know we're not getting much in the way of answers.

Thanks to you guys who know more about subs for explaining. It's actually not unbelievable that the water was very deep when barely off shore. Hawai'i is like that. It's a mountain in the sea, a little shelf and then thousands of feet of depth. But that doesn't work either because we saw the sub hit the bottom, not all that deep.

You know why the captain didn't blow the tanks? Because Frank who is a captain himself couldn't be bothered to mention that the reason to surface is there's a BOMB going off in three minutes. Which might have caused the sub captain to consider more drastic action and not to simply head on up at "impulse drive" speed when warp speed was called for.

None of it makes sense, and the reason is just what everyone has pointed out in the Didn't Love It topics for a long time: the plot necessities are the tail wagging this dog.

The motto of LOST, Season Six:
"Whatever needs to happen, happens."

What a disaster of an episode, what a catastrophe of a season & what a sad tragedy of a show.
Each time Darlton made some cryptic remarks, many like me would just try to grasp those words by reverentially staring in amazement at these *demigods*. But now, as we approach the end of it all, all their past talks & more so the current ones make them look like utter fools of the highest order.

The rules wont be explained, all mysteries wont be solved. Yea rite. Chuck it...I am just sad.

Btw, 114 reps & almost 9000 views in here!!!

Obviously, "I" was very upset to see Sayid die...AGAIN! He has been my favorite character(along with Kate and Hurley) from the beginning. I always expected him to die in a self sacrificing kind of way, but I was hoping the poor guy would get some sort of redemption/forgiveness before it happened. His death came so fast that I didn't even really have time to grieve for him. Hopefully there is some sort of closure for Sayid in the Sideways Reality before it's all said and done. I"m not getting my hopes up though.

As for Sun and Jin... what utter garbage! They had such a great storyline progressing. Hell, I even cried when they were reunited. Then to have them die the very next episode after searching for each other for so long. Man, that really pissed me off.

I have no idea where this season and the finale is going, but I'm not about to give up my faith just yet.

The motto of LOST, Season Six:
"Whatever needs to happen, happens."

Great line, OFG! Too bad its true...