I'm haven't seen it mentioned but...
I was struck by Miles and Hurley playing "noughts and crosses" at the Temple as a metaphor for the "game" that Jacob and MIB are/were engaged in (or that Jacob is/was playing with the Universe).

For two rational players, Noughts and Crosses should always end in a draw (as Miles and Hurley experienced). You cannot force a win, you can only lose by playing irrationally.

After millenia of playing a game that always end in a draw, I'd probably want to kill my opponent too.
So is one side going to "win" now or will it be yet another draw and the game starts over.

I do wonder what exactly Jacob is/was trying to prove MIB wrong about.
I suspect it's that there IS a line of play that results in a timeline that the Universe CAN'T course correct (and doesn't result in the "God help us all" scenario).

Great thoughts. Probably the whole reason that game was referenced in this episode. The interesting thing that may be important for discussion is that the game is called 'TicTacToe' on this side of the ocean. I had never heard 'Noughts and Crosses' before.

Nor have I heard it called "noughts and crosses"! Thanks for the info!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic-tac-toe

For the first time ever I have applied the show's title, Lost, to gamesmanship.

Great thought (and great new term for me from across the pond!)

Does this mean that Smokey has, while seeming to have won the game, in fact acted irrationally and unintentionally lost it?

Well, I think Jacob "lost" on purpose, but certainly the game isn't over yet. Jacob is still making "moves".

I'm haven't seen it mentioned but...
I was struck by Miles and Hurley playing "noughts and crosses" at the Temple as a metaphor for the "game" that Jacob and MIB are/were engaged in (or that Jacob is/was playing with the Universe).

For two rational players, Noughts and Crosses should always end in a draw (as Miles and Hurley experienced). You cannot force a win, you can only lose by playing irrationally.




I think you're right about noughts and crosses being a metaphor for "the game".

When I saw Hurley and Miles playing, I thought it was odd that two adults would choose to play that game because, as you say, it should always end in a draw if the two people playing have half a brain.

Why would two adults choose to play noughts and crosses to pass the time (and go out of their way to spend time making the pieces to play)? Hurley and Miles didn't realize it's not really a game? No offense to anyone who didn't realize that it should always end in a draw but I thought this was common knowledge.

I'm haven't seen it mentioned but...
I was struck by Miles and Hurley playing "noughts and crosses" at the Temple as a metaphor for the "game" that Jacob and MIB are/were engaged in (or that Jacob is/was playing with the Universe).

You know one of the reasons we Yanks broke ties the mothership a couple of centuries ago was so we didnt have to use terms like, "noughts and crosses," and "it's your turn to change the babies' nappy." - that and so we could drive our cars, or our horse drawn carriages back then, on the right side of the road. ;)

Putting that little squabble aside (word has it our countries are getting along smashingly of late) you make a good point about tic-tac-toe! being a metaphor for Jacob and MIB's little "game" Good post, Kenton!

Nor have I heard it called "noughts and crosses"! Thanks for the info!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic-tac-toe

Great link, briolette. Love the stuff about tic-tac-toe (all right -- noughts and crosses) having its roots in Egypt, and the mention of the movie, "War Games," with that computer bent on starting a global nuclear war playing this simple children's game.

One more thing that comes to mind when considering tic-tac-toe is Hurleys' friend Lenny playing a Connect Four in the mental institution. Not sure if this connection was intentioned by the Lost producers. No matter. I love Connect Four (which, no doubt, is probably known as some other crazy name across the pond!)

:)

I'm haven't seen it mentioned but...
I was struck by Miles and Hurley playing "noughts and crosses" at the Temple as a metaphor for the "game" that Jacob and MIB are/were engaged in (or that Jacob is/was playing with the Universe).

For two rational players, Noughts and Crosses should always end in a draw (as Miles and Hurley experienced). You cannot force a win, you can only lose by playing irrationally.

After millenia of playing a game that always end in a draw, I'd probably want to kill my opponent too.
So is one side going to "win" now or will it be yet another draw and the game starts over.

I do wonder what exactly Jacob is/was trying to prove MIB wrong about.
I suspect it's that there IS a line of play that results in a timeline that the Universe CAN'T course correct (and doesn't result in the "God help us all" scenario).

Great Observations Kenton!

I for one, prefer the newly discovered name Noughts and Crosses, and shall be calling it that henceforth! It sounds better, makes more sense, and I just plain like it!
They couldn't have chosen a better metaphor for the game that always ends the same. I like the Egyptian connection. And I find its similarity to Connect Four interesting.

Both games are based on connecting X amount of the same type pieces in a row. This makes me think of both the connections these people have with each other pre-island, and also of the family connections. I dont have a clear theory, just a train of thought. But we have seen 4 members of the Shephard family on the island at one time. I wonder if that ties in somehow. One side or the other must get 3 of a kind in a row to win. MIB has Christian and Claire for his side. Now he just needs Jack or Aaron. And maybe this is why Jacob is focused so intently on Jack, and why dream Claire warned Kate not to bring "him" back.

Well, I think Jacob "lost" on purpose, but certainly the game isn't over yet. Jacob is still making "moves".

Jacob threw a curveball, an unexpected move. Whether or not hes the winner or the foolish one is TBD


BTW - Noughts and Crosses is an awesome name. Makes it sound more sophisticated :biggrin:

"Nought, nought."
"Who's there?"
"LOST"
(I know, "D'oh!)
Heehee
100%
Love the other names:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic-tac-toe
The game has a number of alternative English names.
* Tick-tack-toe, tic-tac-toe, tick-tat-toe, or tit-tat-toe (USA , Canada)
* Noughts and crosses or Naughts and crosses (Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Russian Federation)
* Exy-Ozys, Xsie-Osies (verbal name only) (Northern Ireland)
* Boxin' OXen (Republic of Ireland)
* X's and O's (Republic of Ireland, Canada, Scotland, Zimbabwe)
* X-mix Dricks(Israel)
Sometimes, the names of the games Tic-tac-toe (where players keep adding "pieces") and Three Men's Morris (where pieces start to move after a certain number have been placed) are confused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Men%27s_Morris
Hmmm, the Roman Empire... Interesting.

Personally, I think Miles and Hurley are just saying they love us... hugs and kisses. XOXOXOXOX

eta:
Of course there is always the magic square:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_square

Great thoughts. Probably the whole reason that game was referenced in this episode. The interesting thing that may be important for discussion is that the game is called 'TicTacToe' on this side of the ocean. I had never heard 'Noughts and Crosses' before.

Perhaps another name for the game might be Tic-Tac-FourToes...:biggrin:

I for one, prefer the newly discovered name Noughts and Crosses, and shall be calling it that henceforth! It sounds better, makes more sense, and I just plain like it!

BTW - Noughts and Crosses is an awesome name. Makes it sound more sophisticated.

Sophisticated? Please tell me how is driving on the wrong side of the road, and a whole nation committing this blunder on a consistent basis, sophisticated. Well?

I am now crying over the lack of American patriotism on this board, and am wiping the tears with my Chinese-made American flag. (I am also absolutely terrified I just may have just given myself a case of Chinese-made lead-poisioning.) I sincerely hope you don't also prefer the word, "nappies," to "diapers" too!!!

Whatever the case may be (likin' that eppy title work-in!) just make sure those "nappies" are American-made if you really care about its wearer.

;)

Okay, I have a serious question: This tic-tac-toe! set-up the Others have, with game pieces, is intended for Zach and Emily, right? I mean the adult Others don't actually pass the time playing this game... Do they?

Perhaps another name for the game might be Tic-Tac-FourToes...:biggrin:
*chuckle*

Still reading the link for Nine Men's Morris... it seems more Lost-like with all the strategy and moving of men.

Okay, I have a serious question: This tic-tac-toe! set-up the Others have, with game pieces, is intended for Zach and Emily, right? I mean the adult Others don't actually pass the time playing this game... Do they?


I figured Miles and Hugo made them to pass the time. It's what Hurley does, organize games. The rest of the others seem satisfied with milling around in the dirt.

I wondered how bored they must be to be playing Noughts and Crosses. I feel like a part of the jet-set now.
Now, I see the obvious point. I think Jacob threw the match for his plan to work.

What I took from Hurley and Miles playing Tic-Tac-Toe was that, of all the games that have appeared throughout LOST, finally they have shown us an unwinnable game. To paraphrase from the movie War Games, "The only way to win is not to play."

"It always ends the same." -- MiB on the beach. Are the MiB and Jacob waiting for one or the other to make a mistake, out of boredom or inattention? Or is the game they are playing truly unwinnable, like Global Thermonuclear War? Is the MiB now seeking a way out? Or is his recruitment of Sawyer his next move? Back in the pendulum room, I mean the Lamp Post Dharma station, Desmond said they were all pawns in some bloody game. Maybe for our Losties, the way out is not to play.

One game I'm glad we haven't seen yet on the show is Hangman.

If the only way to win is to not play, maybe MIB killed Jacob just so he could quit and go home. It's hard to believe that life at the Temple is so boring that these two have to play this pointless game. Maybe it was just a stress reliever for them. More likely, Hurley and Miles are like the little mice in that pig movie, Babe. They help explain the story so us little people can better understand it.