I got very excited about this part, and this is one question they better answer! I am hoping and praying we get a Jacob/MIB type flashback that shows their history, along with MIB's mother issues! (by the way....the exact opposite as the daddy issues all the losties have had during the show?!)

Also.....wondering what others had to say about Jacob and the part in the brain washing video from season 3 that stated : "God loves you as he LOVED Jacob"? Does this mean Jacob really is/was an angel type messanger of God?

Thoughts anyone?

"God has nothing to do with it" - Sawyer - Recon

would be epic to see a back story for Jacob and MIB, also when they refer to 'mother' it may not be what we perceive as a female human being it could be a being or entity even the island itself. The island may have treated Jacob well and MIB not so well.

Isn't there one iteration of the story of lucifer which goes something like this:

God created angels to be his loyal subjects their life was that of serving and being in the light of God but then God created man, his most prized creation. Telling his angels that they should serve man, Lucifer became angered by this statement thinking he and his fellow angels were better than man and deserved to be served by man etc etc so God cast Lucifer and his fellow renegade angels out of heaven.

something like that. Anyway, it seems like Jacob is a good angel and helps bring people to the island and cures them whereas MIB thinks its a waste of time. Tries to prove his 'mother' wrong and shows what men are actually capable of hence the rag tag bunch hes recruited.

Anyone watched Dogma? When Bartelby and Loki try to pass through the gates of the church and contradict Gods law they will ultimately end all existence, if MIB manages to 'win' the game will the island/mother sink?

Kind of fits doesn't it?

locke says that "now aaron has a crazy mother too" i kinda got that feeling that maybe aaron is the next candidate for MIB, just a thought...

I had the feeling that MIB/Flocke didn't really talk about his mother but was using Locke backstory with his mother to reach Kate... Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that MIB is saying whatever people need to hear to get them on his side...

I had the feeling that MIB/Flocke didn't really talk about his mother but was using Locke backstory with his mother to reach Kate... Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that MIB is saying whatever people need to hear to get them on his side...

This is the way I'm leaning too. It almost seems as if MiB uses Locke's life as a substitute for his own, whenever he needs to tell a "story". Like when he told Kate about "his crazy mother", and when he told Sawyer about losing someone he loved. Even when he screamed at the mysterious little boy, he used Locke's words:


BOY: You know the rules. You can't kill him.
LOCKE: Don't tell me what I can't do...
[The boy shakes his head and walks away]
LOCKE: Don't tell me what I can't do!


This may be one of the reasons Locke was a perfect 'host' for the MiB.

I think mommy issues have been just as important to the characters of this show as daddy issues, they just haven't been as spelled out as the latter.

- Locke's mom was crazy
- Ben's mom died in child birth
- Sawyer's mother cheated on her husband with a conman
- Jin's mother was a prostitute who extorted Sun
- Boone's mother deprived Shannon of her inheritance
- Kate's mom didn't react quite like you'd expect someone who was saved from abuse
- Claire seemed to have problems with her mother
- Faraday's mother is forcing him to sacrifice his love of music in order to save the world
- Desmond's mom is mysteriously absent, as is Penny's, Sayid, and I believe Eko's.
- Even Zac and Emma's mother sent them across the Pacific Ocean by themselves. ;)

I nearly forgot: Something about Jack's mom has always struck me as odd, I just can't put my finger on it.

I posted this in the "It could have been avoided" thread, but thought it might go well here, too.



Flocke lies. He doesn't tell whoppers because they'd be too obvious, so he tells the truth in a slanted fashion based on characters' history. In the cave he tells Sawyer, who wants to "go home" more than anything else, that he, Flocke, just wants to go home. Yet we now know that he lied to Claire about the Others having Aaron. He actually ADMITS that he lied and says that he did it because he needed to. He told Sayid that he could have his heart's desire, and even in the sideways flash, Sayid doesn't get that, so if the sideways flashes are the reality that comes about if MiB win the "war," again, he's a liar.

Basically, Flocke says what the person "NEEDS" to hear so that he can accomplish his plan.

Flocke's comment to Kate about "moms" was in the same vein. He is playing with her sense of guilt--he's subtly implying that because Kate took Aaron, Claire is crazy, that Claire's current state of mind is Kate's fault. He's also working her sense of "justice" by implying that if Kate wants to "undo" the damage she's done, she will have to go along with Flocke's plan, at least that's the "lie" he's selling her. He's playing right into her own "mother" issues since we know that Kate holds Diane at least somewhat responsible for making Kate who she is--a killer. I'm not saying that Kate is correct to hold that line of thinking, but as a character, we do know that Kate views her mother's inability to leave Wayne a key in his going BOOM. She told her mom, "I took care of things," or something along those lines, so Flocke is just using Kate's own mind's way of explaining her actions against her in order to accomplish his will.

That is definition of manipulation, so I don't think MiB is being sincere with his "crazy mother" talk. He may in fact have had a crazy mom, but he's USING that information to "work" Kate. Even if MiB's mother was loony, HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE for his actions. I know that people don't like that idea, but every defense attorney on the planet would like to be able to say, "My serial killer client is innocent because of his abusive childhood background, so you must find him not guilty because SOMEONE ELSE made him/her do the crime," but one point of the sideways flashes is to show that the characters ARE responsible for the choices that they make in whatever reality they find themselves in.

That Flocke/MiB is a crafty bugger. He's watched humanity for centuries and knows how to work people, knows exactly what to say and how to say it to tap into their guilt and fear and anger and sadness and all sorts of other emotions and faulty logic.


I also wrote in that same thread that Flocke's comment to Sawyer about his (Sawyer's) being the best liar he'd ever met is because it takes one to know one.

And if you think about the interaction with Sawyer and Zoe and Widmore, Sawyer does what all good liars do--he doesn't make up a lie that is wildly different than the actual truth. He just omits details or tweaks the truth because that way the lie is more "accurate" and the liar doesn't get easily caught in a web. That's also the tactic Jack and the other O6 used in their lie--they tried to stay as close to the truth as possible when they could so that they wouldn't have to remember what was true and what was a lie.

So it's possible that Flocke had a crazy mother and that part of his story is true. It could be that he THINKS he's not responsible for his actions, so he says that things could have been avoided if circumstances were different. That may not be true.

But the bigger questions is this: Why is Flocke telling various people various things. Probably because after watching humanity for umpteen centuries, he has a really good sense of what makes individual people tick. He knows that X will motivate this kind of person and Y will motivate this other kind of person. So he uses his intimate knowledge of humanity to accomplish his will.

I nearly forgot: Something about Jack's mom has always struck me as odd, I just can't put my finger on it.

In the alt timeline she offered Jack a drink even though she seemed to know he was on the wagon. Not exactly parent of the year.;D

In the alt timeline she offered Jack a drink even though she seemed to know he was on the wagon. Not exactly parent of the year.;D

jack was drinking vodka on the plane,i don't think he's is on the wagon. his mother seemed to be relieved because he wasn't drinking to cope with his grief. especially since he has his own son waiting for him back home