Jakeslist.com: 09/22/04 4:17p

To: The people who's plane I just conspired to pull out of the sky

I've been getting a lot of guff from my peeps over the last few centuries, so I figured I'd try a different tack with you. You have been brought here for a singular and special reason that has far-reaching consequences. Destiny has brought you here, but choice can save you. However, the problem is you.

Allow me to digress in very simplistic terms for a moment, not because I think you are stupid, I know that is definitely not the case, but because the complexities of the idea are often oversimplified in that fast paced world you live in. Have you ever stubbed your toe, or jammed your finger? You feel that pain radiate? The point of contact may have been between the front of your big toe and a large stone, but the pain..the pain radiates. The surrounding nerves that translate information from a source are in such disarray that they are translating pain to portions of your foot that hadn't even been touched. If you hit it hard enough, it may even start to creep up your leg.

A wrongful act, no matter how simple works in much the same way. If you are caught lying to someone, that person will never view you again in the same perspective. You have forever transformed it with that one act. If you and that person have friends in common, and those friends trust you and the other person equally, that trust will lessen if the person imparts the information. Should you lie again and deny it to them, discord will be sewed. This discord will begin to cause fractures among the other people leading to more disharmony. And all this is but from a lie.

What about harming a person? Crippling them? Stopping them from being able to make their way in the world? If they have a family, their family will share that burden. Those children will grow up marred by the experiences that you put upon their parent, and as such their world view will be skewed in such a way that the right circumstances will bring about more discord. Taking a life? The ripples of pain get larger and larger and create new epicenters that cause more pain.

This brings me back to my original point. You were brought to this island because, through various means, I know that you are about to unleash great evil upon the world. If you are reading this, it may not be your intent at all, but trust me when I say that all the factors of your life are leading you to an inevitable conclusion, and that conclusion will cause ripples upon ripples of pain for centuries to come. It also may be the case that you may be intending to cause someone harm, possibly because you've been harmed equally. But have you really thought of the consequences? Have you thought past the one person you were hurting? Is it possible that whatever you were about to do would unleash more harm upon the world then the person that you were about to do it to?

While you may be feeling slightly down at this point, take heart, because what came before does not matter. Who you are does. The problem is you. You are at a crossroads. Yes, I have brought you here, but only because the interference in your life prevented a greater evil from flourishing, but I do not believe you are evil. In fact, I believe you have the capacity to do great good, I find you all to be incredible, vibrant, and powerful people with many good traits. However, therein lies the problem. The power you possess is such that ultimately in your lives you will do either great good or great evil, and the state of the world is such that you will never have perfect circumstances. You must rise above the mean and be incorruptible. If you can do this, if you can live on this island of fear and tribulation, head held high, with nothing but goodness in your heart, then you deserve to leave. And at that point, your goodness will echo throughout the years, touching lives and spreading like wildfire.

You are too powerful to let go unless you are powerful enough to master your hearts and minds. The problem is you, but the solution is also you.

Regards,
Jacob


I've been posting bits and pieces of this idea that's been forming around the boards this week, but I figured it deserved a special thread. It spells out exactly what I think the Island is and the motivations he's operating under.

Hope ya dug it.

Interesting.

But no in-show evidence that this is the "greater good" that people assume Jacob has to have (since otherwise his actions make him look like a mean SOB).

Interesting.

But no in-show evidence that this is the "greater good" that people assume Jacob has to have (since otherwise his actions make him look like a mean SOB).

Yeah..that's why it's a theory :P The point is that the writers first set us up to think good and evil by the end of season 5. Throughout ALL of season 6 they've been playing with that where we are concerned. I think they WANT us to think Jacob is evil just so they can turn around show us, nope he wasn't. He was preventing greater evils by interfering in these people's lives, and they DID have the opportunity to make changes in themselves. We, as people, are a summation of our experiences. How we react to those experiences are, to a large degree, genetic. What I'm suggesting is happening is this: these people's genetic disposition coupled with the environments they are in (and almost every flashback story shows our characters on one edge or another in their lives) are at some point in the near future going to cause events that will damage many people. So Jacob just takes them out of the environment. If they are people that really do want to do good, then they will be able to make that change themselves. If they don't, they'll end up smokey food.

I thought it was a pretty cool theory. Thanks for the time you put into it. :)

I thought it was a pretty cool theory. Thanks for the time you put into it. :)

For sure..thanks for the props :biggrin:

I like it and I think it gets to the very heart of the story they're trying to tell.

I'd love to get more thoughts/discussion/counterproposals on this because I think there is definitely something too this. I know emotionally, some folks may not like this idea because

A) It paints our characters not as heroes but only as potential heroes, where the choice is theirs.

B) The idea of evil/malevolence/pain spreading is again something some people don't like to think about, because when it's spelled out that basically, it's impossible to ignore, and if the metaphorical shoe fits, it breaks through self-deceptive rationalizations. A lot of people like to argue that there is no evil and that 'good' is arbitrary, but it really isn't. There are basic things that CAN be split into good and evil choices. And when something is that black and white, there is no wiggle room.

There's a lot in here that feels true to the story, so I'd love to hear some more opinions on it.

As I understand your theory, you are saying they were chosen because they were about to release great harm on those around them and society. IMO, it discredits the idea that these people were chosen as candidates to replace Jacob. I'm not saying a bad person couldn't have been selected and reformed so that he/she could replace Jacob, just that your theory sort of displaces that idea, or at least makes it secondary.

Maybe Jacob only "brought" them there after they mysteriously showed up in 1950s (some of them) and then again in the 1970s. After that point, he knew they were going to come to the Island, so he started watching them, and eventually brought them to the Island.

Jacob was quite clear that he's been "bringing people to the island" (in modern 21st language, that would be "kidnapping" them) for centuries in order to prove a point to the MIB, that people can choose good. This latest group contains a number of candidates to replace him, of which six remain. He seems to get his hoots from 1.) not telling them anything about why they are there, 2.) watching them floundering around and often dying, and 3.) rubbing it in MIB's face when one of them does something he considers "good", thus gaining him a point in their little argument. There has been no evidence whatsoever that Jacob is concerned with the redemption of any of these people he's kidnapped, including our Losties, as he has explicitly stated the past is gone and they get a fresh start on the island, i.e., there is nothing to redeem them from. All he wants is a replacement, probably because he's damn tired of arguing with MIB. The problem is Jacob and his underhanded ways.

As I understand your theory, you are saying they were chosen because they were about to release great harm on those around them and society .IMO, it discredits the idea that these people were chosen as candidates to replace Jacob. I'm not saying a bad person couldn't have been selected and reformed so that he/she could replace Jacob, just that your theory sort of displaces that idea, or at least makes it secondary.

Maybe Jacob only "brought" them there after they mysteriously showed up in 1950s (some of them) and then again in the 1970s. After that point, he knew they were going to come to the Island, so he started watching them.


Jacob's replacement came up because of the actions of the losties. My point with the tongue in cheek dating of 'Jacob's' post 1 minute after the crash, was that this was the ORIGINAL function of the island. The time travel, the looking glass, Desmond saving Charlie, everyone taking a field trip off the island, these were all ABNORMAL events and as such have set up everything for a huge prison break. And if that prison break occurs, BAD things will happen. All of the events we have been watching have changed the game such that Jacob was behind the curve. So now he's working to catch up. But he's also been working in the past. The people that are candidates are the people that Jacob thinks are the most likely to choose to do the right thing, and the right thing, I think, is to go back to the beginning with foreknowledge, and shepherd the folks that aren't in the know towards the 'good' side of the scale. We've seen the idea of the scale multiple times now, with Dogen being the most explicit.

Granted, there is a possibility that Jacob and MiB are both insane brothers and have put this mantle upon themselves, but I really don't think that is the case since we've seen time split. That to me suggests that there are greater forces at work here than human weakness (which in itself IS a very great force, but not nearly as great as human strengths).

Also, near the bottom of this page (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=122928&page=5) I put forth a possibility of how the idea of the candidacy ties in. Jacob tries to interfere as little as possible, so he may just be telling ilana just enough to keep them protected, but not reveal their purpose until they are ready. The ones that have thrown their lot in with Locke with no other care but their desires (Sayid and Claire), are probably not going to make it. Sawyer is there under false pretenses. He has no interest in serving the MiB. And as much as it pains me to say it, Kate is there because she didn't have anywhere else to go at the time, but the fact that she didn't take his hand when he offered to help her out also suggests that she's not going to fall for the banana in the tailpipe. They can still tip good. And if you read the post I linked above, the good news is, there could be hope for all of them. The candidate or candidates could be the ones that get shuffled back to the beginning of the crash with full knowledge and all their emotional growth intact. They could free the rest of the people on the Island leaving only the MiB, and possibly Jacob's replacement. But if they go back to the beginning, Jacob would be alive. We've seen dead people come back in that way before...in the alt.

The candidate or candidates could be the ones that get shuffled back to the beginning of the crash with full knowledge and all their emotional growth intact. They could free the rest of the people on the Island leaving only the MiB, and possibly Jacob's replacement. But if they go back to the beginning, Jacob would be alive. We've seen dead people come back in that way before...in the alt.

I like this idea. But then the character would have to be older in order to be old enough to evacuate the island and sink it at some point?

Locke? or Jin/Sun/Sayid

My first pick would have been Hurley with the way we have seen him in the alt. def. very Jacob all-knowing, but I really like that this candidate has maybe already defeated MIB and the island with a lot of knowledge about who people are and what their motivations are (most of our characters are pretty identical in mindset, even though some details have changed). I guess it could have happened in the 80s so could have been a young version of any of our candidates. We don't really have any real evidence of when the island sunk.

drshredder2003< This made me lol so hard. This is exactly what Jacob does!

I like this idea. But then the character would have to be older in order to be old enough to evacuate the island and sink it at some point?

Locke? or Jin/Sun/Sayid

My first pick would have been Hurley with the way we have seen him in the alt. def. very Jacob all-knowing, but I really like that this candidate has maybe already defeated MIB and the island with a lot of knowledge about who people are and what their motivations are (most of our characters are pretty identical in mindset, even though some details have changed). I guess it could have happened in the 80s so could have been a young version of any of our candidates. We don't really have any real evidence of when the island sunk.


No I'm thinking more along the lines of CTT. Whoever is left standing after the events that are about to occur from now until the resolution would go back with complete foreknowledge, but the timeline split would be erased, and they would be starting back from the oceanic crash. The person or people that survive through the end of the on island timeline will understand why it is they were brought to the island and what they need to do to leave it. Some may even choose to stay. My money would be on Jack for obvious reasons. Its funny the look on Jack's face in the pilot is very similar to the look on his face in the opening shot of season 6. Sure, it's a "holy crap I've been in a plane crash," but it could also be read as a holy crap, that all just happened.

While the idea that the sideways is the epilogue of events is a very tidy fit, I think the story would work just as well if we're seeing the second to the last iteration. Leaves much room for sequels (I hope they never go there) and (shudder) fanfic.