Flocke said that Kate was no longer on the wall. Why is that? Is he lying? Is she dead? Did she do something to get crossed off? Any ideas?

I thought Kate was always crossed off the wall but was not crossed off the lighthouse.

Flocke said that Kate was no longer on the wall. Why is that? Is he lying? Is she dead? Did she do something to get crossed off? Any ideas?

I thought he said Kate's name was not on the wall, but he needed her to get the other three whose names were not crossed off. I thought it was an outright lie to Claire. But I'll have to watch it again to be sure.

Flocke said that Kate was no longer on the wall. Why is that? Is he lying? Is she dead? Did she do something to get crossed off? Any ideas?

Because MiB or Jacob, whoever crossed her off is not a fan of the Love Triangle.

I thought he said Kate's name was not on the wall, but he needed her to get the other three whose names were not crossed off. I thought it was an outright lie to Claire. But I'll have to watch it again to be sure.


Smokey is referencing Kate being crossed off in the Cave. But Kate is not crossed off at the Lighthouse.

Smokey may be referencing the wrong list - he may not have an accurate count of the 6 remaining candidates. Therefore he may not be lying Claire. He may simply be wrong.

Smokey is referencing Kate being crossed off in the Cave. But Kate is not crossed off at the Lighthouse.

Smokey may be referencing the wrong list - he may not have an accurate count of the 6 remaining candidates. Therefore he may not be lying Claire. He may simply be wrong.

That is true if he just said her name was crossed off. But if he said it was not there and it was there but crossed off, he lied. That is why I want to watch it again to see the exact wording.

Why didn't Sawyer ask about her when he saw all his other friends' names on the wall?? "Yeah, Jarrah, Reyes, Shephard, check check and check...ummm...where are the girls' names I've been sleeping with? Burke and Austen??? Are they up here too Locke??"

Because MiB or Jacob, whoever crossed her off is not a fan of the Love Triangle.

You beat me to it!

Seriously, how can someone so indecisive make decisions affecting the well-being of the Island?

That is true if he just said her name was crossed off. But if he said it was not there and it was there but crossed off, he lied. That is why I want to watch it again to see the exact wording.

I thought he said to the question of if Kate's name was on the wall, "not anymore".

You beat me to it!

Seriously, how can someone so indecisive make decisions affecting the well-being of the Island?

Clearly Jacob was shipping either Skate or Jate and got mad when she broke up with one of them. :biggrin:

Cardie

I don't believe that Smokey has access to the Lighthouse. Remember, Jack noted that they lived on the island all that time and never found it? And Hurley said maybe it was because they weren't looking for it? Maybe it can only be seen if Jacob invites you to see it. In which case, Smokey doesn't know that Kate isn't crossed off on the Lighthouse dial.

Of course, since the MIB has written Kate off she'll probably be the one to kill him.

That is true if he just said her name was crossed off. But if he said it was not there and it was there but crossed off, he lied. That is why I want to watch it again to see the exact wording.

I thought he said to the question of if Kate's name was on the wall, "not anymore".I thought he said that Kate's name was crossed off, and when Claire asked him if her name was there he answered, "Not anymore."

Just listened to it again....

Claire : "Is my name on the wall"
Flocke: "No."

Claire: "Is her name on the wall?" (referring to Kate)
Flocke: "No it isn't. Not any more."

Most of you are quick to believe a man that has been lying and manipulating characters for weeks.

Just checked Lostpedia, and Claire was Littleton #313 (crossed off) on the cave. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates#Known_candidates

This is what wiki says about Kate's name:

The name "Austen" was not seen in the cave, but was later seen in the Lighthouse, not crossed out. Carlton Cuse (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Carlton_Cuse) said in an interview (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Outbound&f=Candidates&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftv.ign.com%2Fdor%2Fobjects%2F821880 %2Flost%2Fvideos%2Flost_paleyfest_ints_030110.html %7Cstated) that Kate's name was on the cave wall and crossed out, but regrettably did not make the final edit.

So......we saw it at the Lighthouse NOT crossed off and were told (by TPTB) it is in the cave but is crossed out?

What to make of that? Hmmmmmm

So......we saw it at the Lighthouse NOT crossed off and were told (by TPTB) it is in the cave but is crossed out?

What to make of that? Hmmmmmm

Ive posted this before but will say it again. If we are to believe the cave writing was in fact done by Jacob as we are told and we dont consider a continuity error. Well the only connection I can make is that it was to fool Flocke for a reason Im still working on trying to piece together.

As for TPTB's comments on the name in the Lighthouse, well, they've lied to us before to preserve a plot twist. I wouldn't put it past them to lie now to preserve the final mysteries of the series until the appropriate time.

I think the cave belonged to MIB while the Lighthouse belonged to Jacob. And I think Austin is crossed off the wall because MIB thinks Kate is either not useful to him, or has done something which eliminates her as the candidate. Since we don't know what eliminates candidates while they are still living (and it must be possible, because Linus is crossed off, but Ben is still alive), we have no way to judge whether MIB is correct in his assumptions.

But I think it's worth mentioning, the lists are going by legal name. As highlighted by tonight's sideways, Kwon only became Sun's legal name after her marriage to Jin; given that neither party knows whether Kwon means Sun or Jin (or Ji Yeon), that means it is the legal names of the candidates that matter. What's the significance? Well, to the rest of the world, Austin would be Aaron's legal name.

Just listened to it again....

Claire : "Is my name on the wall"
Flocke: "No."

Claire: "Is her name on the wall?" (referring to Kate)
Flocke: "No it isn't. Not any more."

Thank you for the transcript. It seems SMLocke did say "not any more." But as goddessblue points shows below, if we are to believe Lostpedia, Locke did lie to Claire. He said her name was not on the wall. It was on the wall but crossed off. Perhaps he just wanted to keep from having to explain why the names were crossed off. I think it is more because he did not want her to realize that he plans for her fate to be the same as Kate's.

Just checked Lostpedia, and Claire was Littleton #313 (crossed off) on the cave. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates#Known_candidates

I thought he said to the question of if Kate's name was on the wall, "not anymore".

That's what I heard.

I think, Flocke saying a name is on the wall means it is there and not (yet) crossed out. Claire's name was on the wall but crossed out, so in Flocke's words, it wasn't on the wall.

What if this is a little bit Star Warsie? We do not know how long the names have been on the wall/lighthouse. What if the names represent a _family_, a lineage and not a specific person? Fathers are big in this story. So what if Jacob has been following families ie- the Losties families/fathers for years. He brought the kids here when he knew it was time. We know Claire's father is Jack's dad, a Shephard, so Littleton isn't Claire. Since Claire is a Shephard, her name IS still on the wall. imho.

I think Kate's name was crossed off when she took Aaron. She now has a job more important to the universe in Jacob's eyes. Raising Aaron. Claire is insane and can not be responsible for raising Aaron and she also has the "Sickness".

This would also explain why only one of the Kwons are on the list. The other's job is raising their daughter.

None of the candidates have ties to anyone off Island. They are all capable of taking Jacob's place with minimal effect on the outside world or anyone in it.

Or Littleton could be Aaron, crossed off when he left the island and didn't return.

Cardie

Couldn't the "candidates" be the people that are being narrowed down by both sides, not just one? Kate being crossed off in the cave means that she is not useful for that side but is still a viable candidate for the other side?

Couldn't the "candidates" be the people that are being narrowed down by both sides, not just one? Kate being crossed off in the cave means that she is not useful for that side but is still a viable candidate for the other side?

That seems to be the reality. Flocke is taking Jacob's castoffs in order to use them against him and his candidates. Genius, really.

Flocke always tells everybody what they need to hear. Claire didn't need to worry about being a candidate. He told her she wasn't one. She worried she was useless: he told her he needed her. Was Kate a candidate? It doesn't matter. If he told Claire she was one, it would have been one more way that she was more special... something that again, Claire didn't needed to hear.

Every single word was manipulation. I wouldn't waste my time looking for the truth in anything Flocke says to anyone.

Why was she crossed off? Probably because the Candidate needs to be someone willing to spend an extraordinarily long period of time in one place. Kate can't stay in one place for more than 5 minutes.

Why was she crossed off? Probably because the Candidate needs to be someone willing to spend an extraordinarily long period of time in one place. Kate can't stay in one place for more than 5 minutes.

She was in LA for three years and seemed quite happy there until Jack acted like a loser and everyone else brought their issues straight to her door.

Most of you are quick to believe a man that has been lying and manipulating characters for weeks.

Thank you! I don't believe him at all.

Amen to that! She wasn't having any issues until Jack started bothering her by calling and begging her to go the island with him! It wasn't until she even started to consider it that she lost Aaron in the supermarket and that scary looking un-Claire was holding his hand...

Because if she can't even make up her mind about two men, how can she make decisions to protect Island?

Maybe her name being crossed off is the reason Flocke looked so puzzled when he saw her among his group outside the temple at the end of Sundown. Also, I doubt he really intends to allow Claire to kill Kate. If this was his plan why have the little chat w/ Kate about crazy moms? Maybe he wants Claire to try, but he believes Kate will win the fight.

Because if she can't even make up her mind about two men, how can she make decisions to protect Island?

Why does she have to make up her mind about either man?
100%
Maybe her name being crossed off is the reason Flocke looked so puzzled when he saw her among his group outside the temple at the end of Sundown. Also, I doubt he really intends to allow Claire to kill Kate. If this was his plan why have the little chat w/ Kate about crazy moms? Maybe he wants Claire to try, but he believes Kate will win the fight.

I can't figure out why he'd concern himself with warning Kate about crazy moms unless he took seriously the idea that a reconciliation was possible. Maybe he was setting it up to use as an out when he doesn't take Claire off the island. Sort of like, "You know we can't let them be together now, Kate." That's assuming he would even take Kate.

She was in LA for three years and seemed quite happy there until Jack acted like a loser and everyone else brought their issues straight to her door.

Conveniently overlooking the fact that she was legally obligated to remain in the state...

Conveniently overlooking the fact that she was legally obligated to remain in the state...

Doesn't matter. She was content and settled and then Jack acted like a gnome and Ben brought the law on her. She didn't want to run. She wanted to stay. Ben put pressure on her, Sun manipulated her and she was cornered by her own guilt for leaving the others behind. But, she did not run. She could have dumped Aaron with Carol and headed for points unknown.

I think he is lying to Claire to get her to play along with him. Just like he did when he told her the temple had Aaron. He lies to get what he wants and then says "I will never lie to you"

Well, Desmond is back on the Island and Claire is there, all we need is Aaron and Desmond can see them get in a helicopter and leave. Heck, if they can snatch Des, they can probably snatch Aaron too.

I thought he said Kate's name was not on the wall, but he needed her to get the other three whose names were not crossed off. I thought it was an outright lie to Claire. But I'll have to watch it again to be sure.

Here's my theory on why Kate's name is crossed off the wall in the cave. It's complex, so bear with me :)

First off, we know that Lost is about time travel. Eloise has stated that time has a way of "correcting things" when they get out of whack. For instance, Desmond knew that Charlie was going to die, but Charlie avoided the grim reaper for a few episodes. But sooner or later, it caught up to him.

Now what is a "candidate?"

A candidate is someone who was touched by Jacob, and given pseudo-immortality in the process. For instance, Jacob touched Richard and now he's lived for about 200 years. Jacob touched Locke and basically brought him back from the dead.

The key here is that Jacob is messing with the timeline.

That's the key. In order for time to sort itself out, all of these people must die. Locke, Richard, Sayid, all of 'em.

So why is Kate's name crossed off?

The reason is that she's a sleeper agent. She's been on MIB's side the whole time.

Remember how MIB cannot cross the water? This is an important clue. Check out the season five finale, and watch Kate's reaction when Jack tries to get her to swim in the water. She refuses to do it, and actually runs away.

The reason that she wouldn't touch the water is the same reason that Flocke can't. It would be the end of her.

Of course baptism has been a recurring theme in the show, and it would be ironic if the thing holding MIB on the island is simply the water that surrounds it.

Only time will tell...

Because MiB or Jacob, whoever crossed her off is not a fan of the Love Triangle.
You beat me to it!

Seriously, how can someone so indecisive make decisions affecting the well-being of the Island?

:biglaugh:

:clapping:Nice.

I don't believe that Smokey has access to the Lighthouse. Remember, Jack noted that they lived on the island all that time and never found it? And Hurley said maybe it was because they weren't looking for it? Maybe it can only be seen if Jacob invites you to see it. In which case, Smokey doesn't know that Kate isn't crossed off on the Lighthouse dial.

I don't think the smoke monster can either, tho we can't say definitively that he doesn't know about the lighthouse at all because we haven't been given any indepth on Jacob or the man in black's background.

As the Smoke Monster, MiB had the ability to scan and read peoples lives. That flash photograph of their mind he seemed to take, like with Eko, gave him a Lostie's history.

Jacob's way to gain that info seemed to be the lighthouse. Which gives Jacob the advantage because he can watch people who aren't on the island yet, but who may be, while the Monster would seem to need them present in order to scan them.

Also with Jacob being able to leave the island, he can initiate a much broader plan, in scope, by virtue of his counterparts island limitations.
Of course, since the MIB has written Kate off she'll probably be the one to kill him.

I don't know about kill him, but she could prove to be a wildcard to any plan. Not as much as Desmond, who just comes strolling out of the jungle withh no fear and a mission, but still a blindside.

Just listened to it again....

Claire : "Is my name on the wall"
Flocke: "No."

Claire: "Is her name on the wall?" (referring to Kate)
Flocke: "No it isn't. Not any more."

Unless the Littleton on the wall refered to Aaron, the first is an out right lie. SCreencaps show that Claire's last name was up there.

The second question is at least a half lie. Austen is on the wall. It's crossed off. As Sam suggests, maybe that means she isn't viable to MiB's plans. However nothing was further explained to Claire about why Kate was no longer on the wall (even tho she was) or what that even means. It's a deception by omission at the very least.



But I think it's worth mentioning, the lists are going by legal name. As highlighted by tonight's sideways, Kwon only became Sun's legal name after her marriage to Jin; given that neither party knows whether Kwon means Sun or Jin (or Ji Yeon), that means it is the legal names of the candidates that matter. What's the significance? Well, to the rest of the world, Austin would be Aaron's legal name.

I think you make a great point in why Jin is the candidate, and not Sun. I don't think Aaron plays into it, seeing as he's not on the island. Tho as was suggested, maybe Littleton, which is crossed off, refered to him. Either way, MiB was able to manuever so as to see Aaron off the island.

Since Sun never time travelled either, always made me think that she wasn't as important as the other returning Losties. That she could have not returned and the candidates would have all been left intact.
Couldn't the "candidates" be the people that are being narrowed down by both sides, not just one? Kate being crossed off in the cave means that she is not useful for that side but is still a viable candidate for the other side?
That's what I was thinking too. Makes sense to me.