At the end of "Across The Sea", It was pretty obvious that Jacob was the last Person left on the Island. Throughout the entire episode, we did not sea any evidence of any civilization having been there prior to that time of 23 AD. We saw no structures, no statues, no hieroglyphs, nothing. So, I think that the Egyptians came AFTER Jacob took over the island.

I think the fertility issues started with the first Egyptians that Jacob brought to the island. Which may be the reason why the Egyptians erected a Statue of Taweret on the island. Taweret was worshipped because she is the Egyptian Goddess of Childbirth and Fertility. Her top half is represented by a Lion, and her botton half is represented by a Crocodile which is why she only has four toes.

Possibilites? Jacob. He now has serious Mommy issues.

New Island Ruler, New Rules. Jacob would vow to protect innocent children from suffering the same fate he and his brother did at the hands of a psychotic mother, but this time the protection would come at the expense of the Mother, not the child.

I remember what Dr. Juliet said. You can deliver a full term baby on the island if it was conceived OFF the island. Also, as we saw with SUN, if a baby was conceived on the island, you and the baby are safe if you leave the island before your 4th or 5th month. But as we found out with many of the women of the Others, they die on the island in their second trimester if the baby is conceived on the island, and they stay on the island.

Why does this matter? Because I believe that Jacob knew that if a Mother came to the island pregnant, the child already had a soul. If a mother became pregnant on the island, and left the island while she was able, the child would be safe because the souls were trapped on the island an could not leave, especially Smokey's.

I also think that over time, Jacob felt some guilt about this Pregnancy Rule of his. I find it extremely interesting that all the Losties he brought to the island had extreme Daddy issues and not Mommy issues. This makes me think that he questions the actions of himself as the Leader / Protector of the island, and perhaps someone who didn't have a crazy Mother would be better suited to take over his job.

Update:

Threads are fun: Towards the end of the 3rd page we have worked our way to this possible theory:

My idea is this: The properties of the exotic matter that were released into the environment and drinking water from the 1977 incident, didn't actually hurt the residents of the island, but actually boosted their healing abilities, immune systems, and cell reproduction. So much so, that instead of welcoming a new fetus into it's womb, a woman's body would now see it as a foreign invader and start attacking it.

This would also explain the elevated sperm counts in the men.

What about Ethan?

What about Ethan?

Wasn't Carl born on the island too?

Wasn't Carl born on the island too?
I'm not sure about that. Has it ever been confirmed?

What about Ethan?

Ethan is the only Baby born on the island that we need to theorize about. As we found out in "LaFleur", their emergency room was ill equipped to deliver babies because they didn't. All the women in the Dharma Initiative were sent off of the island to have their babies.

It is possible that Horace and Amy took a trip on the Sub and became pregnant OFF the island. In my opinion, it was probably for their honeymoon. When Sawyer and Juliet first arrived in Dharmaville, it was 1974. and Amy's first husband had just been killed. Amy was holding her newborn baby when Jack and Kate arrived in 1977. So there was a courtship and a wedding of sorts within those three years.

I'm not sure about that. Has it ever been confirmed?

It hasn't been said otherwise. I was always under the impression that he was the last one born and that his parents were gone. I don't see why a lone kid would be transported to the island and not have parents. I even sensed some jealousy between him and Ben over that since Ben badly wanted to be born on the island.

Throughout the entire episode, we did not sea any evidence of any civilization having been there prior to that time of 23 AD. We saw no structures, no statues, no hieroglyphs, nothing. So, I think that the Egyptians came AFTER Jacob took over the island.



The lack of evidence only means that TPTB choose not to show any. Just because we didn't see any evidence does not mean there was not any. How many episodes went by until we saw the lighthouse?

After about 30BC the Egyptians were in the ends of their civilization. They were conquered by the Romans and around 30 BC to 400 AD and 400 to 600 AD they stop using hieroglyphics. Is that proof they came to the island to start a new civilization? Did they live on the island around 5000 BC only to leave to start their civilization on the Nile Delta?

Ethan is the only Baby born on the island that we need to theorize about.

Why? Carl was there and he didn't come from flight 815.

Wasn't Carl born on the island too?

I don't know, I will see what I can find out. We can all figure this out because I think this is one answer we're not going to get before the end of the show!

What about Ethan?

I believe Miles was born on the island as well. Now that I'm thinking about it, Charlotte was born on the island as well. In fact, I saw no indication that the members of Dharma had any trouble with Island pregnancies. They allowed children to come to the island and children were born there. Even Ellie became pregnant and there was no urgency about getting her off the island. Pregnancies seem to have become a problem sometime after 1977 since that is around the time we know Ethan was born.

Exactly when it became a problem after 1977, I don't know. Will we ever know? Probably not. It's another mystery Lost.

Ethan is the only Baby born on the island that we need to theorize about. As we found out in "LaFleur", their emergency room was ill equipped to deliver babies because they didn't. All the women in the Dharma Initiative were sent off of the island to have their babies.

It is possible that Horace and Amy took a trip on the Sub and became pregnant OFF the island. In my opinion, it was probably for their honeymoon. When Sawyer and Juliet first arrived in Dharmaville, it was 1974. and Amy's first husband had just been killed. Amy was holding her newborn baby when Jack and Kate arrived in 1977. So there was a courtship and a wedding of sorts within those three years.
It's possible but I still think the pregnancy issues started after 1977.

I believe Miles was born on the island as well. Now that I'm thinking about it, Charlotte was born on the island as well. In fact, I saw no indication that the members of Dharma had any trouble with Island pregnancies. They allowed children to come to the island and children were born there. Even Ellie became pregnant and there was no urgency about getting her off the island. Pregnancies seem to have become a problem sometime after 1977 since that is around the time we know Ethan was born.

Exactly when it became a problem after 1977, I don't know. Will we ever know? Probably not. It's another mystery Lost.
Miles and Charlotte most likely wasn't born on the Island.

"La Fleur"
DOCTOR: I am an internist not an obstetrician Our women always deliver on the mainland. Amy was supposed to get on the sub on Tuesday. The baby is 2 weeks early.

....and we butt up against another mystery dropped.

Oh, NBC, you joker.

So, when do we find out when the fertility issues began? And Miles seemed to have been born there. He was pretty darned young when we see him as a squirt.

:hypocrit: :angel: :rolleyes: :drowsy:

:ignore:
....and we butt up against another mystery dropped.
:topicoff:

Exactly when it became a problem after 1977, I don't know. Will we ever know? Probably not.
The show runners said we had all the elements to deduce why it became a problem after 1977. (http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/feature/feeling-lost-4314.html?page=2) So I guess we're supposed to understand the incident is to blame. Not because it makes sense(*), but simply because nothing else would seem to fit the bill...

* It doesn't. Electromagnetic energy and/or radiation are to blame for the situation, really? Babies can be born on the island as long as they were conceived off-island (Alex, Aaron), and they can be conceived on the island as long as they're born off-island (Ji-yeong)... but if they're conceived and born on-island, the electromagnetic energy says "no" and kills both the mother and her baby? And how was that such a big problem for the Others when they had the means to leave the island whenever they wanted? Why did the mothers stay on the island to die?
More arbitrary and nonsensical "rules", more plot contrivances, more plot holes. Not a big deal, really! It's not as if the character of Juliet ever mattered, nor as if Claire getting kidnapped ever was a major plot thread!

It's possible but I still think the pregnancy issues started after 1977.


Miles and Charlotte most likely wasn't born on the Island.

"La Fleur"

Charlotte said she was born on the island. If I recall correctly, she didn't leave the island on the freighter because she was looking for the place on the island she was born.

It's possible but I still think the pregnancy issues started after 1977.


It is possible, and If I can't make the Jacob theory work, then I have to work on the 1977 pregnancy theory. Right now, the Jacob theory is more compelling and fun because It hasn't been talked about before, and it has possibilities. (fewer my the minute, but still....)


It could be that the theory needs tweaking. pascalephoto mentions that 23 AD is far past the time of ancient Egyptians. Maybe Mother was the last Egyptian of their civilization. She acts like she has been there for a VERY LONG TIME. Somehow she got stuck with the job of protecting the island, and she is just DONE with it.

The statue would have then been built before Jacob. And Taweret still only has 4 toes because she technically represents half a crocodile. They could have built Taweret in celebration of their good fortune of Childbirth and Fertility, or hopes of improving their barren civilization.

Need opinions!!!
Wouldn't you see a statue that ginormous if it were there on an island??

At the end of "Across The Sea", It was pretty obvious that Jacob was the last Person left on the Island. Throughout the entire episode, we did not sea any evidence of any civilization having been there prior to that time of 23 AD. We saw no structures, no statues, no hieroglyphs, nothing. So, I think that the Egyptians came AFTER Jacob took over the island.

I think the fertility issues started with the first Egyptians that Jacob brought to the island. Which may be the reason why the Egyptians erected a Statue of Taweret on the island. Taweret was worshipped because she is the Egyptian Goddess of Childbirth and Fertility. Her top half is represented by a Lion, and her botton half is represented by a Crocodile which is why she only has four toes.

Possibilites? Jacob. He now has serious Mommy issues.

New Island Ruler, New Rules. Jacob would vow to protect innocent children from suffering the same fate he and his brother did at the hands of a psychotic mother, but this time the protection would come at the expense of the Mother, not the child.


This theory rings true with me - though I doubt it will be confirmed by the end.
It would also explain why children are taken by the others.

Foghat, what makes you think they did or didn't see the statue in 23 AD? We are given no real geography on the Island in the last ep. Some have claimed that the beach with the turtle was Tawaret beach, but I see no evidence of it. Maybe the statue was there and it wasn't part of the story.

And, the statue is damn tall, yes, but not taller than the mountains. So it could easily have been hidden from Demented Family Robinson when the kids were young.

What does it prove even if it was there. The same totem could fit with opposite conclusions. There because the women were fertile, there because they were entreating the Gods for more fertility.

It's unknowable. We don't have enough info. That, I guess all of us positive hopeful types are assuming, will be revealed in the final two and a half story hours.

It is possible, and If I can't make the Jacob theory work, then I have to work on the 1977 pregnancy theory. Right now, the Jacob theory is more compelling and fun because It hasn't been talked about before, and it has possibilities. (fewer my the minute, but still....)


It could be that the theory needs tweaking. pascalephoto mentions that 23 AD is far past the time of ancient Egyptians. Maybe Mother was the last Egyptian of their civilization. She acts like she has been there for a VERY LONG TIME. Somehow she got stuck with the job of protecting the island, and she is just DONE with it.

The statue would have then been built before Jacob. And Taweret still only has 4 toes because she technically represents half a crocodile. They could have built Taweret in celebration of their good fortune of Childbirth and Fertility, or hopes of improving their barren civilization.

Need opinions!!!
Wouldn't you see a statue that ginormous if it were there on an island??
It does look like there might be some children with the group that came to the Island with Claudia.
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/7d86e63d998edf1b1c493033b9c46ebf

The one little girl looks to be smaller than a 13 year old.

The show runners said we had all the elements to deduce why it became a problem after 1977. (http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/feature/feeling-lost-4314.html?page=2) So I guess we're supposed to understand the incident is to blame. Not because it makes sense(*), but simply because nothing else would seem to fit the bill...

* It doesn't. Electromagnetic energy and/or radiation are to blame for the situation, really? Babies can be born on the island as long as they were conceived off-island (Alex, Aaron), and they can be conceived on the island as long as they're born off-island (Ji-yeong)... but if they're conceived and born on-island, the electromagnetic energy says "no" and kills both the mother and her baby? And how was that such a big problem for the Others when they had the means to leave the island whenever they wanted? Why did the mothers stay on the island to die?
More arbitrary and nonsensical "rules", more plot contrivances, more plot holes. Not a big deal, really! It's not as if the character of Juliet ever mattered, nor as if Claire getting kidnapped ever was a major plot thread!

Juliet said that by the end of the third trimester, the Mother's immune system would turn on the baby and attack it as if it were a foreign object in the body. Babies never seemed to be a problem for the true Others. The people that proved themselves capable of resisting all of Smokey's best temptations, the people who decided they wanted to stay on the island because he was better than the lives they left behind. The people who lived like Jacob wanted them to live. The ones before BEN. You could almost say that these people were blessed by Jacob.

The Dharma people were not. They had issues with pregnancy. But Dharma came and went from the island at will. It was the Others who pretended to be Dharma after they killed off Dharma that had problems with pregnancy. Why did the pregnant Mother's stay on the island even though they had a Sub? Why didn't Ben let them leave? Because Ben was the leader, and was just following instructions. No one leaves the island, no babies born from conception on the island.

You could almost say that these people were blessed by Jacob. The Dharma people were not. They had issues with pregnancy.
Says who? Ethan was born, and the show runners themselves said something changed sometime after Ethan's birth and before the beginning of the series.

Why did the pregnant Mother's stay on the island even though they had a Sub? Why didn't Ben let them leave? Because Ben was the leader, and was just following instructions. No one leaves the island
Except, y'know, a bunch of Others, like Tom or Richard.

It does look like there might be some children with the group that came to the Island with Claudia.
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/7d86e63d998edf1b1c493033b9c46ebf

The one little girl looks to be smaller than a 13 year old.

She does look younger than 13. Hmmm. Can we make one of the women in the photo's pregnant? I like conclusive stuff like that. :biggrin:
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Why? Carl was there and he didn't come from flight 815.

Kinda funny....Nobody knows where Carl came from........:eek2:
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[quote=Olivier_Hague;2348412]Says who? Ethan was born, and the show runners themselves said something changed sometime after Ethan's birth and before the beginning of the series.


Amy and Horace must have had a little honeymoon Off the island. Dharma folks came and went from the island all the time in their handy dandy subs.


Except, y'know, a bunch of Others, like Tom or Richard.


Yeah, that's just evil. Let the pregnant Mothers die, but let Tom off the island to see his boyfriend (not that there's anything wrong with that) and Richard off the island to bring back a girlfriend for Ben.

Amy and Horace must have had a little honeymoon Off the island. Dharma folks came and went from the island all the time in their handy dandy subs.
But the show runners themselves said the fertility issues began sometime after Ethan's birth! ^^;;

Foghat, what makes you think they did or didn't see the statue in 23 AD? We are given no real geography on the Island in the last ep. Some have claimed that the beach with the turtle was Tawaret beach, but I see no evidence of it. Maybe the statue was there and it wasn't part of the story.
.


The Conversation that BIB had with his Mother on the beach. The kid is very bright, and I don't see this explanation working with a giant statue of Taweret:



BOY IN BLACK: Can I keep the game?
MOTHER: Of course you can. That's why I left it for you.
BOY IN BLACK: It came from you?
MOTHER: Of course it did. Where else would it come from?
MOTHER: There is nowhere else. The island is all there is.
BOY IN BLACK: Then where did we come from?
MOTHER: You and your brother came from me, and I came from my mother.
BOY IN BLACK: Where's she?
MOTHER: She's dead.
BOY IN BLACK: What's dead?
MOTHER: Something you will never have to worry about.

Foghat that snippet of conversation covers a very small period of time in their lives. There are at least 30 years after that, and Mother is very good at lying about things that are around. How can you be so confident?

Foghat that snippet of conversation covers a very small period of time in their lives. There are at least 30 years after that, and Mother is very good at lying about things that are around. How can you be so confident?

Well, Piecar, you can't be a leader if you get LOST in the FOG.....:biggrin::):biggrin::)

Thruthefog, I really like the theory -- too bad about the exceptions.

About the fertility problems, I wonder if instead of the incident its just the bomb being under Dharma, and Ben deciding to move the others there. It could explain his cancer too. It wasn't actually "buried" and if some radioactive gas like tritium were coming out of it, it could seep into the Dharma houses.

Foghat that snippet of conversation covers a very small period of time in their lives. There are at least 30 years after that, and Mother is very good at lying about things that are around. How can you be so confident?


Okay, I'm sorry. I couldn't resist. Now you understand my user name.....But I still like Fog Hat.

I just really think that after 13 years of running around the island, with as huge as that statue is, the boys would have noticed at least the top of the statue, and would have asked Mother about it. How can she have convinced the boys for that long a period of time that the only things that exist is her, the boys and island? And how can she do it on an island that has so many ancient egyptian structures etc.? UNLESS they weren't there. Jacob was buying it, but BIB wasn't. I think he would have found it if it were there.

But, then again, maybe they just didn't show it in the episode.

Well, that's my point. He could have seen it, or still hadn't gone to the "forbidden" side of the Island, and maybe they even talked about and she could have made some elaborate story that said it was something her ancestors made....

....and yes, it could have even not been there. But it's tough to create a theory based on no data, and the word of a crazy, lying Bad Hair Victim

Thruthefog, I really like the theory -- too bad about the exceptions.

About the fertility problems, I wonder if instead of the incident its just the bomb being under Dharma, and Ben deciding to move the others there. It could explain his cancer too. It wasn't actually "buried" and if some radioactive gas like tritium were coming out of it, it could seep into the Dharma houses.

AHHH, You're volunteering to help me with the other 1977 pregnancy theory aren't you?? At this time, I think I've been convinced that Jack and Juliet were actually successful in detonating the bomb which in turn created the sideways timeline. So, the bomb would have been detonated in 1977 which is when the pregnancy problems started in THIS theory. So, all of those years that it was buried underground, didn't seem to cause any problems.

The theory for 1977 has to based on either the effects of the radiation combined with the EM energy causes the female reproduction system to attack the baby after the first trimester. Or it has to be linked to simultaneous creation of the sideways timeline. Still working on that one. :)
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Well, that's my point. He could have seen it, or still hadn't gone to the "forbidden" side of the Island, and maybe they even talked about and she could have made some elaborate story that said it was something her ancestors made....

....and yes, it could have even not been there. But it's tough to create a theory based on no data, and the word of a crazy, lying Bad Hair Victim


I found one! I found one! HEY PIECAR! I found one!!!!! When MIB was in the well with the donkey wheel, there were NO hieroglyphs on the wall. But then we see the Donkey wheel when Ben and Locke turn the wheel the hieroglyphs are there. Which means they came AFTER. THEY CAME AFTER MIB AND JACOB. I am singing..... they came after..... they came after....yes they did....yes they did....:kiss:

I'm crossing my fingers that they don't try to explain the fertility issues, otherwise we'll get something like

"The incident changed the Island's magnetic properties so storks could no longer migrate to it. Even if the odd stork got there by accident, all the gooseberry bushes were killed so there was nowhere to leave the babies and they flew away again".

Trust me. They'll tell you they've explained the fertility issues, and if you aren't satisfied they'll compare you with an annoying child.

And they'll believe themselves!

I think MIB was killing the babies.

After what happened to him, he didn't want another child to suffer the pain that his mother had caused him.

That would explain ethan since he was born inside the pylons.

I think MIB was killing the babies.

After what happened to him, he didn't want another child to suffer the pain that his mother had caused him.

That would explain ethan since he was born inside the pylons.
But it wouldn't explain why the Others/Hostiles were still having the same issues once they moved to the Barracks, inside the Pylons.

I'm crossing my fingers that they don't try to explain the fertility issues...

Trust me. They'll tell you they've explained the fertility issues, and if you aren't satisfied they'll compare you with an annoying child.

And they'll believe themselves!

I pretty sure that won't be explained. Darlton said that they would only explain those things the survivors themselves would be concerned about. Both Juliet and Sun are dead now, so they won't need to know why pregnant women die on the island. And unless Kate's quickie with Jack, before she got on Ajira 316, left her pregnant, no one else will be concerned about it.

I think MIB was killing the babies.

After what happened to him, he didn't want another child to suffer the pain that his mother had caused him.

That would explain ethan since he was born inside the pylons.

I see, Mrs. Chang, Mrs. Goodspeed, and Mrs. Lewis were all inside the fence so Smokie could not get at them. What about all the pregnant Others who lived in New Otherton behind the same fence but died anyway?

I'm sure it had something to do with MiB but I don't think Smokie's physical proximity has anything to do with it. Seems more like island mojo.

kate has some serious mommy issues...
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i think the pregnancy issues started after the incident in 1977thats why ethan was conceived& born on the island.

Okay. I'm siding with you then Foghat. The enthusiam alone carries me to your side.....and really, it's not all that imperative to da narrative...(Hey, I'm a poet and didn't realize it....oh...damn)

I'm too tired to think this through properly, but I have a theory. At some point after Ethan's birth (Or this is a fact that's been known all along, see P.S.) MIB/Smokey realised he could possess unborn children, early in their foetal development. Let's just assume for the moment that his ability to posses things requires a 'soulless' corporeal vessel, usually a corpse as we've seen. When it comes to corpses, he seems to create a facsimile, rather than possess the corpse itself. However, perhaps it occurred to him at some point that at a certain stage in their development foetuses were physically alive, but souless, empty yet living vessels, ripe for direct possession, rather than whatever it is he does with corpses. If successful, it would of course present a number of benefits: the ability to bypass the sonar fence, infiltration of the others/dharma/whoever (and thus a means to manipulate them to serve his ends), etc.

However, this possession triggered the mother's immune system to attack the foetus, having recognised a foreign entity, killing it and ultimately the mother in the process. Filling the holes in this theory, perhaps the MIB could only possess a foetus once it had physically developed to a point at which it was able to sustain the possession, but before it had been imbued with a soul. Children conceived on the island but removed from it early enough would obviously be beyond his reach. Children conceived off-island but born there perhaps were also beyond his reach, due to some influence of 'the rules', because they were 'outsiders', or arrived with souls already intact (This part needs more work). As for why he would continue to attempt it after so many failures, I believe he was searching for another 'special' being like himself, the only kind of vessel which would have been able to bear him successfully.

I realise i'm probably way off and it has quite a few holes (i.e. How would he bypass the sonar fence to possess foetuses behind it?), but I thought it was interesting enough to at least mull over.

P.S. The possession of unborn children may infact have a long history on the island. ATS seemed to strongly suggest that Smokey, or even Smokies, pre-dated MIB. And given his 'specialness' perhaps he was one of the early successful possessions? Maybe this is why when he entered the light and his body "died", Smokey emerged from the cave. It didn't create Smokey, Smokey was always there inside him. The light just released it, perhaps possibly even combining both entities.

P.P.S. I'm also inclined to believe that there is at least always one 'special' person in each wave of arrivals to the Island.

I just really think that after 13 years of running around the island, with as huge as that statue is, the boys would have noticed at least the top of the statue, and would have asked Mother about it. How can she have convinced the boys for that long a period of time that the only things that exist is her, the boys and island? And how can she do it on an island that has so many ancient egyptian structures etc.?

Speaking as a parent, I think that, certainly until age 13, it is perfectly reasonable to think that Mother told them "You can go out and play but don't go across the river, and no farther than that big tree over there." That could have kept them close enough to home to keep them from stumbling onto the statues. Heck, it took that long for see to find the other PEOPLE, who were moving around and making noise.

Okay. I'm siding with you then Foghat. The enthusiam alone carries me to your side.....and really, it's not all that imperative to da narrative...(Hey, I'm a poet and didn't realize it....oh...damn)

Woo Hoo! I do have lots of enthusiasm! :biggrin: My theory lives for another DAY! Yea!

Most of them have a short shelf life, but they are fun while they last.:)

And Hey, you ARE a poet! I saw the LOST Limericks in the other Thread that you wrote.....very creative!:rolleyes:

There seems to be much stronger evidence for the baby issues starting after 1977. Also, it is not a fertility issue, it is a pregnancy issue. There has never been any problem with women getting pregnant (a fertility issue), the problem is with them surviving the pregnancy.

Since Ethan was born in 1977 there should be no discussion of the pregnancy issue being before then. Also, Amy and Juliet have a conversation where Amy asks Juliet when her and Jim are going to have kids. The Dharma Initiative would have known that babies were a problem if the pregnancy issue was before then and i highly doubt that Amy would have asked that question.

Logically, and with all evidence pointing in the same direction...the Incident is what caused the preggo issues.

Speaking as a parent, I think that, certainly until age 13, it is perfectly reasonable to think that Mother told them "You can go out and play but don't go across the river, and no farther than that big tree over there." That could have kept them close enough to home to keep them from stumbling onto the statues. Heck, it took that long for see to find the other PEOPLE, who were moving around and making noise.

You are right, it is reasonable to think that. But I also understand even in the real world, when it comes to raising identical twins, or fraternal twins under the same roof with the same parents with the same rules, they will often grown up to be complete opposites. This is often spurred by the desire and search to have their own individual identity.

Pertaining to your statement above, that would be Jacob. He would follow his Mother's rules to the letter. But not the brother. He was just too curious. The people were on the other side of the island. The 815ers didn't know the Others were living on the island until the Others wanted them to know.

A gigantic statue is much more difficult to hide. I'm just not convinced that it was there. I think it would have been seen. There were no hieroglyphs where the Donkey wheel is located when MIB was building it. But they are there later when the Donkey wheel is completed. I still think the Egyptians came after Jacob took over the island.

There may have been one girl in a screen cap of MIB's village, but the fertility issues seemed to start with the arrival of the egyptians, hence the erection of the Taweret Statue.

My theory is that MiB had been infecting the wombs of the mothers that conceived on the island and effectively killed them both before their 3rd trimester. He would most logically be trying to prevent any child's life from coming to fruition on The Island, because he feels being an Island pawn is a fate worth than death.

And as to why DHARMA was able to have babies on The Island, I believe it's because MiB was trapped inside the cabin for sometime and then unleashed a little bit after the purge, because we saw him attack the French team. And I'm fairly certain we have never seen or heard smokey during DHARMA times.

Since Ethan was born in 1977 there should be no discussion of the pregnancy issue being before then. Also, Amy and Juliet have a conversation where Amy asks Juliet when her and Jim are going to have kids. The Dharma Initiative would have known that babies were a problem if the pregnancy issue was before then and i highly doubt that Amy would have asked that question.

Logically, and with all evidence pointing in the same direction...the Incident is what caused the preggo issues.

I don't think that pregnancy was a great big issue in Dharma betweet 1972 and 1977 because they weren't really there on the island to have babies. They were Scientists. If a woman came to the island and was pregnant it was no big deal. And, like I said Horace and Amy could have left the Island to go on a Honeymoon. There were absolutely no restrictions on the comings and goings of the Dharma initiative back then. Even if one woman during that time had died while pregnant, they never would have connected it to the island in any way. They also said that if a woman was pregnant, she was sent off the island to have their baby. So, it was perfectly natural that Amy would ask that question.

Heh heh, Foghat said "erection" in relation to pregnancy...

It's the little things.

IAnd, like I said Horace and Amy could have left the Island to go on a Honeymoon.

Occam's razor. Amy gave birth on island. We have no reason to believe that she didn't get pregnant on island. Ergo, there was no pregnancy issue prior to 1977.

I don't think that pregnancy was a great big issue in Dharma betweet 1972 and 1977 because they weren't really there on the island to have babies. They were Scientists. If a woman came to the island and was pregnant it was no big deal. And, like I said Horace and Amy could have left the Island to go on a Honeymoon. There were absolutely no restrictions on the comings and goings of the Dharma initiative back then. Even if one woman during that time had died while pregnant, they never would have connected it to the island in any way. They also said that if a woman was pregnant, she was sent off the island to have their baby. So, it was perfectly natural that Amy would ask that question.

I agree that there was enough travel to and from the island during the era to completely rule out the possibility that Ethan was conceived anywhere else but the island.

This isn't a huge need-to-know-the-answer-mystery for me, the fertility thing, but I would like a final word on it before all is said and done. One thing to bear in mind, Juliet once said that the male sperm count on the island was 5 times normal. There should have been a population explosion at Dharmaville.

I don't think that pregnancy was a great big issue in Dharma betweet 1972 and 1977 because they weren't really there on the island to have babies. They were Scientists. If a woman came to the island and was pregnant it was no big deal. And, like I said Horace and Amy could have left the Island to go on a Honeymoon. There were absolutely no restrictions on the comings and goings of the Dharma initiative back then. Even if one woman during that time had died while pregnant, they never would have connected it to the island in any way. They also said that if a woman was pregnant, she was sent off the island to have their baby. So, it was perfectly natural that Amy would ask that question.

They were mechanics, cooks, workmen, teachers, construction workers, and yes, a few of them were scientists. Actually, the only scientist that orginated at Dharma that I can think of is Marvin Candle. Everyone else was more of a menial worker.

But I digress, it is all well and good to say that nobody was having babies between 1972 and 1977 so a pregnancy issue would not have been noticed. However, there is nothing in the show that supports that. Of course, we have circumstantial evidence that the preggo issues started after 1977 in the form of Ethan. But circumstantial evidence can win a trial and zero evidence will never even get you to a trial.

Besides, they were peace, love hippies. Having hippies as parents (and learning way too much about my parents lives before they met), hippies love love and I am quite sure that there were some "free love" Dharma babies concieved when a little Dharma brew was drunk and a little Three Dog Night was on the 8-track player.

(Sort of) joking aside...it comes down to the evidence.

I agree that there was enough travel to and from the island during the era to completely rule out the possibility that Ethan was conceived anywhere else but the island.

This isn't a huge need-to-know-the-answer-mystery for me, the fertility thing, but I would like a final word on it before all is said and done. One thing to bear in mind, Juliet once said that the male sperm count on the island was 5 times normal. There should have been a population explosion at Dharmaville.

There was also nothing mentioned of an unusually high pregnancy rate at Dharmaville either. I started this theory for 2 reasons. It fits with how Baby Jacob and Baby MIB were brought in the world, and how Jacob may have dealt with it afterwards. And 2 everyone keeps saying that the incident of 1977 caused the pregnancy problems, but no one has been able to explain it. Why did the incident cause every pregnant woman's immune system to attack her baby after the third trimester? What happened?

Does anyone have any ideas?

There's nothing really to theorize about here. Carlton mentioned in an interview earlier this season that the fertility problems have something to do with "The Incident" in 1977. So women could safely give birth prior to that date, but not after. Not sure if we will get an answer as to what exactly about "The Incident" that caused this in these final two episodes, but that's what the problem can be traced to.
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There was also nothing mentioned of an unusually high pregnancy rate at Dharmaville either. I started this theory for 2 reasons. It fits with how Baby Jacob and Baby MIB were brought in the world, and how Jacob may have dealt with it afterwards. And 2 everyone keeps saying that the incident of 1977 caused the pregnancy problems, but no one has been able to explain it. Why did the incident cause every pregnant woman's immune system to attack her baby after the third trimester? What happened?

Does anyone have any ideas?

I think with the resolution of the side-ways universe and the "real" time-line that's sure to come with the wrap up of the show we are finally going to know what happened after Juliette blew up the hydrogen bomb and what happened on the island after that in 1977.

Basically the hope is that we'll get more of an explanation as to what the "The Incident" was, and what it caused in it's wake. Hopefully that will give us some idea about the overall mysteries of the show, and perhaps we'll at least be able to infer what about it caused the fertility issues even if we are almost certainly not expressly told.

I think with the resolution of the side-ways universe and the "real" time-line that's sure to come with the wrap up of the show we are finally going to know what happened after Juliette blew up the hydrogen bomb and what happened on the island after that in 1977.

Basically the hope is that we'll get more of an explanation as to what the "The Incident" was, and what it caused in it's wake. Hopefully that will give us some idea about the overall mysteries of the show, and perhaps we'll at least be able to infer what about it caused the fertility issues even if we are almost certainly not expressly told.

That is my hope as well. :biggrin: I always gladly tossed out my theories whenever we get actual answers or different information from the show. (there have been MANY). But I'm creating my own Fail-safe theories just in case we don't get all the answers.

Because I'm creating my own COMPLETE little LOST world that I'm going to be living in when the show is over. A world that will have some sort of sensible answer for all of those nagging unanswered questions. And just in case this 1977 pregnancy issue isn't settled. My Jacob pregnancy theory is going to take it's place, because it's pretty good, and it make more sense.

Ya'll are welcome to join me.

There was also nothing mentioned of an unusually high pregnancy rate at Dharmaville either. I started this theory for 2 reasons. It fits with how Baby Jacob and Baby MIB were brought in the world, and how Jacob may have dealt with it afterwards. And 2 everyone keeps saying that the incident of 1977 caused the pregnancy problems, but no one has been able to explain it. Why did the incident cause every pregnant woman's immune system to attack her baby after the third trimester? What happened?

Does anyone have any ideas?

At some point after Ethan's birth (Or this is a fact that's been known all along, see P.S.) MIB/Smokey realised he could possess unborn children, early in their foetal development. Let's just assume for the moment that his ability to posses things requires a 'soulless' corporeal vessel, usually a corpse as we've seen. When it comes to corpses, he seems to create a facsimile, rather than possess the corpse itself. However, perhaps it occurred to him at some point that at a certain stage in their development foetuses were physically alive, but souless, empty yet living vessels, ripe for direct possession, rather than whatever it is he does with corpses. If successful, it would of course present a number of benefits: the ability to bypass the sonar fence, infiltration of the others/dharma/whoever (and thus a means to manipulate them to serve his ends), etc.

However, this possession triggered the mother's immune system to attack the foetus, having recognised a foreign entity, killing it and ultimately the mother in the process. Filling the holes in this theory, perhaps the MIB could only possess a foetus once it had physically developed to a point at which it was able to sustain the possession, but before it had been imbued with a soul. Children conceived on the island but removed from it early enough would obviously be beyond his reach. Children conceived off-island but born there perhaps were also beyond his reach, due to some influence of 'the rules', because they were 'outsiders', or arrived with souls already intact (This part needs more work). As for why he would continue to attempt it after so many failures, I believe he was searching for another 'special' being like himself, the only kind of vessel which would have been able to bear him successfully.

I realise i'm probably way off and it has quite a few holes (i.e. How would he bypass the sonar fence to possess foetuses behind it?), but I thought it was interesting enough to at least mull over.

P.S. The possession of unborn children may infact have a long history on the island. ATS seemed to strongly suggest that Smokey, or even Smokies, pre-dated MIB. And given his 'specialness' perhaps he was one of the early successful possessions? Maybe this is why when he entered the light and his body "died", Smokey emerged from the cave. It didn't create Smokey, Smokey was always there inside him. The light just released it, perhaps possibly even combining both entities.

That's my theory as posted earlier, regardless of whether or not its correct, I feel the fertility issue is unrelated to the Incident, and in one way or another has something to do with either Jacob or his brother.

This has been solved.

1. The example of babies that have been born on the island up until 1977, and the aforementioned lack of a sense of urgency about pregnancies indicated this was not a problem.

2. In 1977, a hydrogen bomb was set off in a pocket of exotic matter. The Island has a series of underwater connections and so even if none of the radiation/exotic matter mix got out through the swan hole, it had a variety of ways that it could get into the island ecosystem.

3. The exact problem with the pregnancies, as explained by Richard Alpert in Not In Portland was that the physiology of these mothers were such that Juliet misread a 20-something year old woman as being 70-something.

So, strange, exotic matter, a material that has a property that changes time, is dispersed throughout the island ecosystem and coupled with radioactive elements. I can NOT imagine why women who have lived there for any length of time have problem having babies!

Like many of these questions, they've given plenty of information on it throughout the years. You just have to piece it together.

At some point after Ethan's birth (Or this is a fact that's been known all along, see P.S.) MIB/Smokey realised he could possess unborn children, early in their foetal development. Let's just assume for the moment that his ability to posses things requires a 'soulless' corporeal vessel, usually a corpse as we've seen. When it comes to corpses, he seems to create a facsimile, rather than possess the corpse itself. However, perhaps it occurred to him at some point that at a certain stage in their development foetuses were physically alive, but souless, empty yet living vessels, ripe for direct possession, rather than whatever it is he does with corpses. If successful, it would of course present a number of benefits: the ability to bypass the sonar fence, infiltration of the others/dharma/whoever (and thus a means to manipulate them to serve his ends), etc.

However, this possession triggered the mother's immune system to attack the foetus, having recognised a foreign entity, killing it and ultimately the mother in the process. Filling the holes in this theory, perhaps the MIB could only possess a foetus once it had physically developed to a point at which it was able to sustain the possession, but before it had been imbued with a soul. Children conceived on the island but removed from it early enough would obviously be beyond his reach. Children conceived off-island but born there perhaps were also beyond his reach, due to some influence of 'the rules', because they were 'outsiders', or arrived with souls already intact (This part needs more work). As for why he would continue to attempt it after so many failures, I believe he was searching for another 'special' being like himself, the only kind of vessel which would have been able to bear him successfully.

I realise i'm probably way off and it has quite a few holes (i.e. How would he bypass the sonar fence to possess foetuses behind it?), but I thought it was interesting enough to at least mull over.

P.S. The possession of unborn children may infact have a long history on the island. ATS seemed to strongly suggest that Smokey, or even Smokies, pre-dated MIB. And given his 'specialness' perhaps he was one of the early successful possessions? Maybe this is why when he entered the light and his body "died", Smokey emerged from the cave. It didn't create Smokey, Smokey was always there inside him. The light just released it, perhaps possibly even combining both entities.

That's my theory as posted earlier, regardless of whether or not its correct, I feel the fertility issue is unrelated to the Incident, and in one way or another has something to do with either Jacob or his brother.



According to some research I have done, Ancient Egyptians believed that the human soul was immortal. After the death of a body, the soul enters in another living thing then coming into birth. For three thousand years, the soul passes through all the creatures in the land, sea and air, and then the soul enters once more into a human body. So, basically unborn babies are safe from Smokey. It is the ones that are born like Jacob and his Brother that are not.

This has been solved.

1. The example of babies that have been born on the island up until 1977, and the aforementioned lack of a sense of urgency about pregnancies indicated this was not a problem.

2. In 1977, a hydrogen bomb was set off in a pocket of exotic matter. The Island has a series of underwater connections and so even if none of the radiation/exotic matter mix got out through the swan hole, it had a variety of ways that it could get into the island ecosystem.

3. The exact problem with the pregnancies, as explained by Richard Alpert in Not In Portland was that the physiology of these mothers were such that Juliet misread a 20-something year old woman as being 70-something.

So, strange, exotic matter, a material that has a property that changes time, is dispersed throughout the island ecosystem and coupled with radioactive elements. I can NOT imagine why women who have lived there for any length of time have problem having babies!

Like many of these questions, they've given plenty of information on it throughout the years. You just have to piece it together.

Actually, we have conflicting information on this. If the exact reason why women had pregnancy issues was because their womb was like a 70 year old women, it would stand to reason that no women would ever get pregnant, but many did, including Sun. Radiation could possibly cause this but again if this was the sole issue, no women would get pregnant. So the "70 year old" womb most likely isn't the only issue. This seems to me that either Richard was lying to try and get Juliet on the Island or there is more than one cause of the problem.

In The Other Women this is what Juliet said:

The problem occurs somewhere during the second trimester, when the mother's immune system is triggered. The white blood cell count plummets. It's like the … immune system turns on the fetus.

Radiation wouldn't selectively cause the WBC to plummet nor trigger the immune system during the second trimester.

So based on what has been presented on the show, radiation is not the only issue.

This has been solved.


Apparently not because there are 50 posts in this thread from people that follow the show closely and they haven't been able to come to your conclusion so easily.

We aren't even sure the bomb went off in any of the timelines so the information you have presented is just a theory no better than the original posters.

And well said Todd!

This has been solved.

1. The example of babies that have been born on the island up until 1977, and the aforementioned lack of a sense of urgency about pregnancies indicated this was not a problem.

2. In 1977, a hydrogen bomb was set off in a pocket of exotic matter. The Island has a series of underwater connections and so even if none of the radiation/exotic matter mix got out through the swan hole, it had a variety of ways that it could get into the island ecosystem.

3. The exact problem with the pregnancies, as explained by Richard Alpert in Not In Portland was that the physiology of these mothers were such that Juliet misread a 20-something year old woman as being 70-something.

So, strange, exotic matter, a material that has a property that changes time, is dispersed throughout the island ecosystem and coupled with radioactive elements. I can NOT imagine why women who have lived there for any length of time have problem having babies!

Like many of these questions, they've given plenty of information on it throughout the years. You just have to piece it together.


I know about that as well. Which just leaves me wondering why the exotic time travel matter that seeped in the water would only age the reproductive organs of the women on the island, and nothing else? That makes less sense to me than anything. If the exotic matter is going to rapidly age organs of the human body, then everyone from 1977 should be dead by now, not just Women who have gotten pregnant since 1977.

Also, to the mother's body, the fetus is actually a foreign body and so naturally, the mother's immune system would try and destroy it, BUT one of the wonders of nature is there actually is a "barrier" (the placenta is what allows for this barrier, I believe) that doesn't allow for the mother's immune system to recognize the fetus's cells as "abnormal". This is why some mothers who have a Rh pos baby, and the mother is RH neg, can have issues when there is an abnormal amount of bleeding. The mother's body sees the baby's Rh pos cells as foreign and actively attacks them, and so has to be given Rhogam (in the US) or WinRho (in Canada) which blocks this "attack".

So based on Juliet's findings, it would seem that this natural barrier breaks down sometime during the second trimester allowing the mothers immune system to attack the fetus.

I don't think that pregnancy was a great big issue in Dharma betweet 1972 and 1977 because they weren't really there on the island to have babies. They were Scientists. If a woman came to the island and was pregnant it was no big deal. And, like I said Horace and Amy could have left the Island to go on a Honeymoon. There were absolutely no restrictions on the comings and goings of the Dharma initiative back then. Even if one woman during that time had died while pregnant, they never would have connected it to the island in any way. They also said that if a woman was pregnant, she was sent off the island to have their baby. So, it was perfectly natural that Amy would ask that question.

Some were scientists, some were workmen, some were whatever. Many arrived with their families. This was a community with children, with babies, without any sign of anxiety about having children or babies on the island. Horace and Amy could have left the island but we have no evidence that happened. Amy seemed fairly tied to the island because of her first husband and there was restriction on coming and going. It's not like they drove across a bridge to get there. They had to take a submarine. The sub did not show up every week. It could be months before one came. And you had to take relaxation/sleeping drugs to ride on it. I don't think anyone left on the submarine as a lark. It had to be planned depending on who or what else was coming or going in the sub. Though I will admit that Horace being the leader probably had a great deal of say as to who could leave by sub or not.

There was also nothing mentioned of an unusually high pregnancy rate at Dharmaville either. I started this theory for 2 reasons. It fits with how Baby Jacob and Baby MIB were brought in the world, and how Jacob may have dealt with it afterwards. And 2 everyone keeps saying that the incident of 1977 caused the pregnancy problems, but no one has been able to explain it. Why did the incident cause every pregnant woman's immune system to attack her baby after the third trimester? What happened?

Does anyone have any ideas?

I just believe the pregnancy problems started after 1977 because Ethan was born. I don't know if they were caused by the incident, the purge, or the illnesses (they used to talk about). I don't know whether it was before Danielle's group arrived or after. I even think sometimes it could have been Ben's strong desire to bring Juliet to the island, so maybe the magic box gave Ben a situation that would cause her to be needed on the island. And would get rid of her ex-husband via bus so she could come. Who knows? It could be anything that caused the pregnancy problem but I doubt we will ever know the real answer.

This has been solved.

1. The example of babies that have been born on the island up until 1977, and the aforementioned lack of a sense of urgency about pregnancies indicated this was not a problem.

2. In 1977, a hydrogen bomb was set off in a pocket of exotic matter. The Island has a series of underwater connections and so even if none of the radiation/exotic matter mix got out through the swan hole, it had a variety of ways that it could get into the island ecosystem.

3. The exact problem with the pregnancies, as explained by Richard Alpert in Not In Portland was that the physiology of these mothers were such that Juliet misread a 20-something year old woman as being 70-something.

So, strange, exotic matter, a material that has a property that changes time, is dispersed throughout the island ecosystem and coupled with radioactive elements. I can NOT imagine why women who have lived there for any length of time have problem having babies!

Like many of these questions, they've given plenty of information on it throughout the years. You just have to piece it together.

Which pieces of information do you paste together? I used the example of the magic box and Ben Linus. Why is that not as valid as anyone else's theory?

As I mentioned without TPTB directly addressing the situation, it is possible to come up with multiple theories on why there was a pregnancy issue. Some theories are more convoluted and some simple. Some are science based, some magical island based. Some are based on fancy and some based on a pattern of previous events. Millions of theories means no definitive answer which I am starting to expect from Lost.

There was also nothing mentioned of an unusually high pregnancy rate at Dharmaville either. I started this theory for 2 reasons. It fits with how Baby Jacob and Baby MIB were brought in the world, and how Jacob may have dealt with it afterwards. And 2 everyone keeps saying that the incident of 1977 caused the pregnancy problems, but no one has been able to explain it. Why did the incident cause every pregnant woman's immune system to attack her baby after the third trimester? What happened?

Does anyone have any ideas?

I think there was some TPTB allusion about it starting after the Incident. Maybe it had more to do with some effect on the island itself and not so much with Jacob/MiB. Or maybe it was done by Jacob or MiB for the sole purpose of bringing Juliet to the island, because in the grand plan, she hit the bomb. The one that maybe would not have gone off otherwise.

Thruthefog you have a good point. I don't see why this exotic matter combined with the core of a hyrdogen bomb would have this specific result of women losing their children in the 2nd trimester. Radiation is known to lower sperm count which is the opposite of what happens on the island, so expecting us to jump to the conclusion that the incident caused the fertility issue is ridiculous. If it was that easy this thread wouldn't be going for so long.

Even then we are not sure what happened in the incident. We saw a white flash which coincided with the introduction of the storytelling device of the flash sideways. At the time of me writing this we don't know in which timeline a bomb, if any, went off.

Also, to the mother's body, the fetus is actually a foreign body and so naturally, the mother's immune system would try and destroy it, BUT one of the wonders of nature is there actually is a "barrier" (the placenta is what allows for this barrier, I believe) that doesn't allow for the mother's immune system to recognize the fetus's cells as "abnormal". This is why some mothers who have a Rh pos baby, and the mother is RH neg, can have issues when there is an abnormal amount of bleeding. The mother's body sees the baby's Rh pos cells as foreign and actively attacks them, and so has to be given Rhogam (in the US) or WinRho (in Canada) which blocks this "attack".

So based on Juliet's findings, it would seem that this natural barrier breaks down sometime during the second trimester allowing the mothers immune system to attack the fetus.

Okay, Todd, THIS sounds VERY promising.:biggrin: So perhaps.... There is an element on the island that is affecting the Mother's ability to produce the proper hormones during pregnancy that tells her body to construct this barrier within her uterus that protects her baby from her own immune system?
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I think there was some TPTB allusion about it starting after the Incident. Maybe it had more to do with some effect on the island itself and not so much with Jacob/MiB. Or maybe it was done by Jacob or MiB for the sole purpose of bringing Juliet to the island, because in the grand plan, she hit the bomb. The one that maybe would not have gone off otherwise.

Juliet was definitely needed in the Grand Scheme of things. They sure as heck spared "no expense" in getting her there, and keeping her there! They lied a lot, cheated a lot, stole a lot, and killed a lot. Sheese!!

Actually, we have conflicting information on this. If the exact reason why women had pregnancy issues was because their womb was like a 70 year old women, it would stand to reason that no women would ever get pregnant, but many did, including Sun. Radiation could possibly cause this but again if this was the sole issue, no women would get pregnant. So the "70 year old" womb most likely isn't the only issue. This seems to me that either Richard was lying to try and get Juliet on the Island or there is more than one cause of the problem.

In The Other Women this is what Juliet said:



Radiation wouldn't selectively cause the WBC to plummet nor trigger the immune system during the second trimester.

So based on what has been presented on the show, radiation is not the only issue.

Right...hence the time-travel-y exotic matter mixed with it. Matter that alters time spread throughout the Island eco-system by a bomb. Juliet had no knowledge of the exotic matter. Sun got pregnant VERY quickly after getting to the island. The people that had pregnancy problems had been their for a long, long time. This is something I'm pretty sure I've read that they aren't going to go much further into. They've already said the clues are there, but as Richard said, Ben was focusing on what was, in reality, an unimportant problem. In my opinion, if we already have what we need to answer the question as per TPTB, the only logical answer is that, since the pregnancy issues started in 1977 and a hydrogen bomb WAS detonated in a cavern of exotic matter, these two things would be enough to cause a problem over time.

Apparently people were healed instantly because they were so close to the source of the exotic matter, but there has been a component of that exotic matter that has been turned to dusted and corrupted with radiation, and has been spread throughout the island ecosystem. As for it specifically occurring in the second trimester...it's been a while since I've seen the episode. Did they ever say that the uterine aging was onset during the second trimester, or did they just say the immune system gave out in the second trimester. If it was the latter, that would make sense. They've already got the guts of a 70 year old, and as such, their body wouldn't be able (in most cases) to support a child. I think all we're seeing here is the exotic matter/radiation interacting internally on people who have been there for a long time.

Okay, Todd, THIS sounds VERY promising.:biggrin: So perhaps.... There is an element on the island that is affecting the Mother's ability to produce the proper hormones during pregnancy that tells her body to construct this barrier within her uterus that protects her baby from her own immune system?
100%


Juliet was definitely needed in the Grand Scheme of things. They sure as heck spared "no expense" in getting her there, and keeping her there! They lied a lot, cheated a lot, stole a lot, and killed a lot. Sheese!!

My best guess would be that something was causing the placenta to either break down or began blocking/destroying the hormones produced by the placenta that inhibited the mother's immune system. But for some reason this only happened in the second trimester.That's probably what the Others/Juliet were trying to develop, was a compound that would neutralize whatever was affecting the placenta. That would assume they identified what was causing the problem and they had very limited equipment for research, as Juliet even mentions.

Apparently not because there are 50 posts in this thread from people that follow the show closely and they haven't been able to come to your conclusion so easily.

We aren't even sure the bomb went off in any of the timelines so the information you have presented is just a theory no better than the original posters.

And well said Todd!

There have also been 50 posts that didn't understand that the beam of light was the exotic matter they've been talking about for, oh 4 or so seasons. There were also 50 posts at one point thinking that everyone had a constant and that's what the show was about. In all those groups of 50 posts however, you generally find people who don't look at things in a scientific method. The pregnancy problem is a scientific issue, and as such, can only have a set number of explanations. The show has an internal logic to it, and it's kept to it pretty well. And uh...Kate was knocked into a tree with her ears ringing. Everyone else's ears were ringing. What do you think happened when Juliet was banging on the bomb? Here's a hint: H-bombs tend to produce magnetic fields...I'm pretty sure I've heard the term magnetism in this show somewhere before...

That explains why it would attack the fetus and kill the baby, but not why the mother gets sick.

JULIET: More than anything. I don't know if that boat out there is the answer or not, but it's something. I need to go home. So do you. Sun... In about three weeks, you'll be in an almost constant state of nausea. A week after that, you will experience shortness of breath that won't go away. A week after that, you will lose consciousness and slip into a coma. And then, Sun, you will die. And when your heart stops beating... so will the baby's. And that, Sun, is why it is my business, because you are my patient. If you go... you will die. And your baby will never be born.

There have also been 50 posts that didn't understand that the beam of light was the exotic matter they've been talking about for, oh 4 or so seasons. There were also 50 posts at one point thinking that everyone had a constant and that's what the show was about. In all those groups of 50 posts however, you generally find people who don't look at things in a scientific method. The pregnancy problem is a scientific issue, and as such, can only have a set number of explanations. The show has an internal logic to it, and it's kept to it pretty well. And uh...Kate was knocked into a tree with her ears ringing. Everyone else's ears were ringing. What do you think happened when Juliet was banging on the bomb? Here's a hint: H-bombs tend to produce magnetic fields...I'm pretty sure I've heard the term magnetism in this show somewhere before...

Nothing you say in this post proves that the bomb even went off. Did it go off in the alternate timeline or just the original timeline or both? Why did it send them to the exact date that the Ajira flight had landed in? Hydrogen bombs make peoples ears ring? What? I know you are trying to push this because of your loyalty to the show, but it's full of holes.

I'm fine with this being your theory as to the reason, but you need to admit that there is not enough evidence for the average or even above average viewer to come to your conclusion. The idea that people would come to this conclusion simply because there was a baby born, then an incident and we can't even confirm that Ethan was the last child born because it was never stated and younger characters whose origins are unsure existed on the show leaves it ambiguous enough for serious doubt.

Right...hence the time-travel-y exotic matter mixed with it. Matter that alters time spread throughout the Island eco-system by a bomb. Juliet had no knowledge of the exotic matter. Sun got pregnant VERY quickly after getting to the island. The people that had pregnancy problems had been their for a long, long time. This is something I'm pretty sure I've read that they aren't going to go much further into. They've already said the clues are there, but as Richard said, Ben was focusing on what was, in reality, an unimportant problem. In my opinion, if we already have what we need to answer the question as per TPTB, the only logical answer is that, since the pregnancy issues started in 1977 and a hydrogen bomb WAS detonated in a cavern of exotic matter, these two things would be enough to cause a problem over time.

Apparently people were healed instantly because they were so close to the source of the exotic matter, but there has been a component of that exotic matter that has been turned to dusted and corrupted with radiation, and has been spread throughout the island ecosystem. As for it specifically occurring in the second trimester...it's been a while since I've seen the episode. Did they ever say that the uterine aging was onset during the second trimester, or did they just say the immune system gave out in the second trimester. If it was the latter, that would make sense. They've already got the guts of a 70 year old, and as such, their body wouldn't be able (in most cases) to support a child. I think all we're seeing here is the exotic matter/radiation interacting internally on people who have been there for a long time.

The only thing is, radiation doesn't make sense as the culprit for the immune system attacking the fetus. It makes sense for the degenerated state of the womb, but not the other. If that's the reason they want to use, so be it, but it doesn't really fit. If anything, radiation would weaken the mother's immune system, not strenghten it.

As for exoctic matter, who knows what that can do since it's only theoretical.

My best guess would be that something was causing the placenta to either break down or began blocking/destroying the hormones produced by the placenta that inhibited the mother's immune system. But for some reason this only happened in the second trimester.That's probably what the Others/Juliet were trying to develop, was a compound that would neutralize whatever was affecting the placenta. That would assume they identified what was causing the problem and they had very limited equipment for research, as Juliet even mentions.

Medicine is definitely not my field, so I'll just toss a couple of questions here that hopefully may give you an idea or lead to some more understanding of the physiological processes we're dealing with. What processes stop, specifically, during menopause? With the exception of the occasional 68-year-old getting pregnant, what are the general problems with child bearing at that age? Can someone that old get pregnant only to develop immune system problems as the child puts more and more strain on their body?

Like I said in the last post, I haven't watched Not in Portland in a while, but she identified the picture as a 70 year old woman...but did Richard CORRECT her and say this only happened when she entered her second trimester, or did he correct her, give her age, and then go onto say that simply encountered problems in the second trimester?

That explains why it would attack the fetus and kill the baby, but not why the mother gets sick.

That could be explained by the mother's immune system going crazy due to exposure to the baby. If the baby (ie the foreign body) isn't removed, the mother could die.

Nothing you say in this post proves that the bomb even went off. Did it go off in the alternate timeline or just the original timeline or both? Why did it send them to the exact date that the Ajira flight had landed in? Hydrogen bombs make peoples ears ring? What? I know you are trying to push this because of your loyalty to the show, but it's full of holes.


I know you're trying to push this because of your newfound hatred for the show, but it's easier just to point and say "holes" without adding anything whatsoever to the conversation.

And yes...loud things make people's ears ring. Ever fired a gun? Climbed into a car that had the stereo up too loud? Heard an explosion that wasn't televised? SURPRISE! Your ears will ring! That's why they have these things called "ear protection" for people who work in loud noise environments. Or maybe their hearing was all gone because they time traveled. That's happened before...oh wait..it hasn't.

Medicine is definitely not my field, so I'll just toss a couple of questions here that hopefully may give you an idea or lead to some more understanding of the physiological processes we're dealing with. What processes stop, specifically, during menopause? With the exception of the occasional 68-year-old getting pregnant, what are the general problems with child bearing at that age? Can someone that old get pregnant only to develop immune system problems as the child puts more and more strain on their body?

Like I said in the last post, I haven't watched Not in Portland in a while, but she identified the picture as a 70 year old woman...but did Richard CORRECT her and say this only happened when she entered her second trimester, or did he correct her, give her age, and then go onto say that simply encountered problems in the second trimester?
"Not In Portland"
ALPERT: Mind if I ask you something?
JULIET: Sure.
ALPERT [changing slides]: What do you see?
JULIET: Well, that's a human womb, obviously. Judging from the decomposition of the endometrium I would say that the woman was somewhere in her seventies.
ALPERT: Well, actually, she's 26.
JULIET: What happened to her?
ALPERT: What if I told you that you could have complete freedom and money to find out? We think you're special, Dr. Burke. And we want you to lead a team of highly trained people because we think you're just that good.

That explains why it would attack the fetus and kill the baby, but not why the mother gets sick.


Darn, I thought we were so close! I just quickly read up on the negative RH factor in pregnancy. You're right. It can be fatal for the baby, but not for the Mother unless it is her second or third child.

But, I think we are on the right track for figuring out the right answer for the 1977 Pregnancy issue. I'm gonna have to agree that it gotta be an immune issue, and that the 70 year old reproduction system photo was just a ruse to lure Juliet to the island. It really doesn't make sense. Other organs would have to be involved in this rapid aging process beside female reproductive organs.

The only thing is, radiation doesn't make sense as the culprit for the immune system attacking the fetus. It makes sense for the degenerated state of the womb, but not the other. If that's the reason they want to use, so be it, but it doesn't really fit. If anything, radiation would weaken the mother's immune system, not strenghten it.

As for exoctic matter, who knows what that can do since it's only theoretical.


It wouldn't be just the radiation. It would be the reaction between the radiation and the exotic matter, and whatever byproduct that formed. Exotic matter is theoretical, but in the confines of the show, it has been defined. One of the properties is that when it comes into contact with regular matter, such as H2O, it produces time/space distortions. While that is not a fact in real science, it's a fact in the show. Taking the idea that that matter, in it's normal form, has time-shifting properties, all I'm doing is making the leap that it combined with the radiation, and this byproduct has a long-term property of rapid aging of the organs internally, at the very least where reproduction is concerned. It could be that this sped up internal aging effects the fetus as well. Instead of going the normal nine months, maybe there are complications because the baby is almost fully developed in the second trimester? Like I said, medicine isn't my forte, but with the properties that have already been illustrated to us, and the rapid internal aging Alpert showed to Juliet...it seems the most likely candidate.

And yes...loud things make people's ears ring. Ever fired a gun? Climbed into a car that had the stereo up to loud? Heard an explosion that wasn't televised? SURPRISE! Your ears will ring! That's why they have these things called "ear protection" for people who work in loud noise environments. Or maybe they're hearing was all gone because they time traveled. That's happened before...oh wait..it hasn't.

Couldn't the electromagnetic event that was the "incident" have been loud too? I don't think we'll know until the finale if the bomb, in fact, went off.

Medicine is definitely not my field, so I'll just toss a couple of questions here that hopefully may give you an idea or lead to some more understanding of the physiological processes we're dealing with. What processes stop, specifically, during menopause? With the exception of the occasional 68-year-old getting pregnant, what are the general problems with child bearing at that age? Can someone that old get pregnant only to develop immune system problems as the child puts more and more strain on their body?

Like I said in the last post, I haven't watched Not in Portland in a while, but she identified the picture as a 70 year old woman...but did Richard CORRECT her and say this only happened when she entered her second trimester, or did he correct her, give her age, and then go onto say that simply encountered problems in the second trimester?

My understanding is that during menopause, a women has exhausted all her eggs in the ovaries, so that would mean a woman can't get pregnant after menopause starts. Now, having said this, the womb ONLY LOOKS like a 70 year old women's womb, so theoretically, the 20 year old women should still be able to produce fertile eggs since nothing was mentioned about ovarian function. However, I don't believe a womb that looks like a 70 year old would be able to sustain a fetus. But you never know, the walls of the uterus could thicken up when hormones are produced once the egg is fertilized. But again my best guess would be that the "70 year old womb" wouldn't have the capability of allowing the fertiziled egg to implant. Again, I'm only postulating, not providing anything concrete.

That could be explained by the mother's immune system going crazy due to exposure to the baby. If the baby (ie the foreign body) isn't removed, the mother could die.

I still think we are on the right track, but Avius is right. The Mother's immune system would prevail and kill the baby. The baby would be stillborn. It's what happens in real life with Women who have this condition. There must be something else involved like too much protein being broken down. It must be something that the Mother's Kidneys can't handle.

Time to search a little more.....

That could be explained by the mother's immune system going crazy due to exposure to the baby. If the baby (ie the foreign body) isn't removed, the mother could die.

Seems like they would have tried that, wouldn't they have?

Who were all these guinea pig women who allowed themselves to go through that after knowing it had failed so many times before? It really is horrific now that I think of it.
100%
Think of it this way: Are the Lost writers willing to do more research than me on the question? Probably not. This is why I tend to think it's something made up.

But again my best guess would be that the "70 year old womb" wouldn't have the capability of allowing the fertiziled egg to implant. Again, I'm only postulating, not providing anything concrete.

This is why I think the whole thing was a crock just to get Juliet to the island. There would never have been any viable eggs in there to get impregnated with.

Couldn't the electromagnetic event that was the "incident" have been loud too? I don't think we'll know until the finale if the bomb, in fact, went off.

The incident had pretty much the same sound as it did when Desmond turned the failsafe key. The incident was simply a buildup of electromagnetic energy, which is why the hatch imploded. That same sound built up while they were drilling but stopped once Juliet fell down the well. I would say at that point, they even likely stopped the release, because I think the drilling was what was causing the energy release.

The main question from the beginning was always, did detonating the bomb sink the island in the sideways timeline. That's something that was obviously not the case since Ben's Dad mentions that they lived on the island and left. So it appears in THAT timeline, the bomb may have not gone off. But again..who knows. Maybe we will in two weeks. My contention when 6x01 aired, is still my contention now. The detonation of the bomb created an electromagnetic pulse that interacted with the exotic matter, and since that pulse would be a field just ahead of the explosion, the em field hit the exotic matter before the explosion was able to kill anyone, and time shifted them, and is likely what Desmond's failsafe was based on.

Seems like they would have tried that, wouldn't they have?

Who were all these guinea pig women who allowed themselves to go through that after knowing it had failed so many times before? It really is horrific now that I think of it.

Well, it depends how much exposure the mother's system has had to the baby. RH factor is only one of the immune responses that can happen between a mother and a fetus, there are many others. If there has been alot of exposure to the baby's cells and alot of fetal blood spilling into the mother's system, death could still occur. Because these immune complexes are broken down in the mother's body. If her body isn't capable of breaking these immune complexes down, they could build up, then the mother's immune system starts attacking her own cells, leading to death. It's not a likely scenario, but it is possible.

Plus, the facilities they had on the Island weren't ideal, so even if they had minor issues, it could pose a threat to the mother.

That explains why it would attack the fetus and kill the baby, but not why the mother gets sick.

JULIET: More than anything. I don't know if that boat out there is the answer or not, but it's something. I need to go home. So do you. Sun... In about three weeks, you'll be in an almost constant state of nausea. A week after that, you will experience shortness of breath that won't go away. A week after that, you will lose consciousness and slip into a coma. And then, Sun, you will die. And when your heart stops beating... so will the baby's. And that, Sun, is why it is my business, because you are my patient. If you go... you will die. And your baby will never be born.

Okay, I'm back from doing my medical research. Still trying to get that 1977 incident to work.

This thread has been a lot of fun tonight. I feel like we have all been detectives on a case....just for the heck of it all. LOST is almost over, and I'm gonna miss all this, so I am treasuring every moment. :hypocrit:

How about the women develop a condition during pregnancy called Early Severe Preeclampsia Syndrome? Here is some info:

A woman with preeclampsia develops high blood pressure and protein in the urine, and she often has swelling of the legs, hands, face or entire body. When preeclampsia becomes severe, it can cause dangerous complications for the mother and the fetus. One of these complications is eclampsia, the name for seizures or coma that are caused by severe preeclampsia.
Experts are still researching the details of how preeclampsia is caused, but recent research has provided a basic understanding of the disease. Preeclampsia occurs when the placenta does not anchor itself as deeply as expected within the wall of the uterus. This happens if the placenta does not form a normal system of arteries. Many things can lead to an incomplete artery system in the placenta, including illnesses that can interfere with normal circulation, genetic, factors and the way the mother's immune system reacts to the growing placenta

As the pregnancy progresses, a placenta that does not have a normal artery system creates an abnormal balance of enzymes (proteins) called growth factors that have effects on arteries in the body. This abnormal balance of enzymes changes the way that arteries in the mother and the placenta function. Arteries throughout the body can tighten (become narrower), raising blood pressure. They can also become "leaky," allowing protein or fluid to seep through their walls, which causes tissues to swell. Arteries can also react to the abnormal growth factor balance by forming clots.
In preeclampsia, changes in arteries decrease the blood supply to the fetus and placenta, the woman's kidneys, liver, eyes, brain and other organs.
Preeclampsia and eclampsia are leading causes of illness and death for mothers and newborns.


Severe preeclampsia — Symptoms can include:

Headache
Visual changes
Nausea and abdominal pain, usually in the upper abdomen
Difficulty breathing
Pelvic pain, Bleeding, or blood in the urine
Coma
All of the symptoms that Juliet mentioned to Sun are there, along with the problem of the Mother's immune system attacking the placenta which is the baby's life force inside of the womb.

Interesting that the Mother's body would recognize the placenta as a foreign body and not the baby. Also, Severe Preeclampsia in our world normally wouldn't occur until the end of the second trimester about 20 weeks at the earliest. That could be what was confusing to Juliet.

I realize that this is a fictional show, and that it doesn't have to be a real condition, I'm just trying to get an answer that makes sense within the show itself that goes with the story we've already been given.:)

I just have to think that she would be smart enough to diagnose something like that. Juliet also indicated that it was something that happened at conception. How she knew that, I don't know.

We're turning into an episode of House.
100%
Maybe since the babies are made from super sperm, the babies start attacking the mother.

[quote=Avius;2349361]I just have to think that she would be smart enough to diagnose something like that. Juliet also indicated that it was something that happened at conception. How she knew that, I don't know.

She would have been smart enough to diagnose a disease that was progressing in a normal manner.

My idea is this: The properties of the exotic matter that were released into the environment and drinking water from the 1977 incident, didn't actually hurt the residents of the island, but actually boosted their healing abilities, immune systems, and cell reproduction. So much so, that instead of welcoming a new fetus into it's womb, a woman's body would now see it as a foreign invader and start attacking it.

This would also explain the elevated sperm counts in the men.



We're turning into an episode of House.


Hey, you called me out. That is one of my other favorite shows. And, all of my other Lost theories can be found on other sites under the id of LostInHouse. :biggrin:


Maybe since the babies are made from super sperm, the babies start attacking the mother.


I used to think that because the island was constantly moving through time and space, that the fetus was developing a different rate that the Mother was actually living. I forget why that one didn't pan out.

Are you guys factoring in the xray that Juliet was shown in the Mittelos interview? I think that's important.

I think the incident did cause the problems with birth, not because of radiation, but because of the time irregularities. Remember the CT slide Juliet was shown of the 26 year old woman who appeared to be a barren 70 (Juliet's guess)?

Are you guys factoring in the xray that Juliet was shown in the Mittelos interview? I think that's important.

I think the incident did cause the problems with birth, not because of radiation, but because of the time irregularities. Remember the CT slide Juliet was shown of the 26 year old woman who appeared to be a barren 70 (Juliet's guess)?


We did. We totally talked about that and decided that it was just a ploy to get Juliet interested in coming to the island. It was very important that it was Juliet's CHOICE to agree to come to the island. Once she was there, they showed her the real problem, and then she couldn't leave.

There is no way that a twenty year old with a 70 year old reproductive system could even GET pregnant. She wouldn't have any viable eggs, or a uterus to carry a fetus. That was not the probem they needed Juliet to solve.

I appreciate the theorizing (I think some people's imaginations are wearing thin around here).

I appreciate the theorizing (I think some people's imaginations are wearing thin around here).


:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

There's only 5 more day left before there are any UNSEEN episodes of LOST. That means in 5 days, the imaginations can go on vacation! :cool:

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

There's only 5 more day left before there are any UNSEEN episodes of LOST. That means in 5 days, the imaginations can go on vacation! :cool:

No, that means our imaginations need to rest up before the rewatch to see if there're any buried nuggets for us that make more sense in retrospect :)

Ok, I'm going to miss LOST and don't want to let it go yet.

No, that means our imaginations need to rest up before the rewatch to see if there're any buried nuggets for us that make more sense in retrospect :)

Ok, I'm going to miss LOST and don't want to let it go yet.


I've got a feeling that as long as the Fuselage is around......a lot of us will be lurking.....;)

Foghat has got it. Ethan and Carl, should he be shown to be born on the Island, are anomalies. Even in SuperImmunityChicks there's the weak and the strong. And, it's been said that the exception proves the rule. That's why Ethan was so strong. He was made of SuperSperm. That's why Miles had powers, he was made with SuperSperm. It's the X MEN! Those who make it to birth are "special"

Mmmmm....SuperImmunity Chicks..........

Foghat has got it. Ethan and Carl, should he be shown to be born on the Island, are anomalies. Even in SuperImmunityChicks there's the weak and the strong. And, it's been said that the exception proves the rule. That's why Ethan was so strong. He was made of SuperSperm. That's why Miles had powers, he was made with SuperSperm. It's the X MEN! Those who make it to birth are "special"

Mmmmm....SuperImmunity Chicks..........

Well, ummm Ethan and Miles were born before the incident. But in response to your other stuff....All the SuperImmunity chicks after the incident probably didn't have to worry about any STD's! And neither did the Boys. Maybe that's why there was such a "free for all" and so many women got pregnant and died. Super sperm and no STD's.

At the end of "Across The Sea", It was pretty obvious that Jacob was the last Person left on the Island. Throughout the entire episode, we did not sea any evidence of any civilization having been there prior to that time of 23 AD. We saw no structures, no statues, no hieroglyphs, nothing. So, I think that the Egyptians came AFTER Jacob took over the island.

I think the fertility issues started with the first Egyptians that Jacob brought to the island. Which may be the reason why the Egyptians erected a Statue of Taweret on the island. Taweret was worshipped because she is the Egyptian Goddess of Childbirth and Fertility. Her top half is represented by a Lion, and her botton half is represented by a Crocodile which is why she only has four toes.

Possibilites? Jacob. He now has serious Mommy issues.

New Island Ruler, New Rules. Jacob would vow to protect innocent children from suffering the same fate he and his brother did at the hands of a psychotic mother, but this time the protection would come at the expense of the Mother, not the child.

I remember what Dr. Juliet said. You can deliver a full term baby on the island if it was conceived OFF the island. Also, as we saw with SUN, if a baby was conceived on the island, you and the baby are safe if you leave the island before your 4th or 5th month. But as we found out with many of the women of the Others, they die on the island in their second trimester if the baby is conceived on the island, and they stay on the island.

Why does this matter? Because I believe that Jacob knew that if a Mother came to the island pregnant, the child already had a soul. If a mother became pregnant on the island, and left the island while she was able, the child would be safe because the souls were trapped on the island an could not leave, especially Smokey's.

I also think that over time, Jacob felt some guilt about this Pregnancy Rule of his. I find it extremely interesting that all the Losties he brought to the island had extreme Daddy issues and not Mommy issues. This makes me think that he questions the actions of himself as the Leader / Protector of the island, and perhaps someone who didn't have a crazy Mother would be better suited to take over his job.

Update:

Threads are fun: Towards the end of the 3rd page we have worked our way to this possible theory:

My idea is this: The properties of the exotic matter that were released into the environment and drinking water from the 1977 incident, didn't actually hurt the residents of the island, but actually boosted their healing abilities, immune systems, and cell reproduction. So much so, that instead of welcoming a new fetus into it's womb, a woman's body would now see it as a foreign invader and start attacking it.

This would also explain the elevated sperm counts in the men.


People like you put the writers to shame.

I mean that as a compliment. Viewers like yourself can easily with a bit of thought tie loose ends together or come up with brilliantly complex answers to big mysteries.
All Darlton can do after having three years knowing their end date is scratch their ***** and say "Not enough time" or the classic line "It's about characters". Ironically, season 6 is the least character driven season of them all and the characters themselves are so 2d and hollow they make Noddy look amazingly complex with a lot of depth.

Everyone is ignoring the obvious. What is the one and only thing in the entire DHARMA era that did not say DHARMA on it? That's right folks APOLLO bars! The girls loved them and they could eat as many as they wanted. The candy would leave behind a slight trace of silver oxide in the bloodstream which reacted badly to exotic matter causing their wombs to age 5 times faster than they did.

There ya go. Chew on that candy bar for a while! :) Yummy.

People like you put the writers to shame.

I mean that as a compliment. Viewers like yourself can easily with a bit of thought tie loose ends together or come up with brilliantly complex answers to big mysteries.
All Darlton can do after having three years knowing their end date is scratch their ***** and say "Not enough time" or the classic line "It's about characters". Ironically, season 6 is the least character driven season of them all and the characters themselves are so 2d and hollow they make Noddy look amazingly complex with a lot of depth.

Well Thank you very much for the compliment. The Jacob theory is all mine. (could have happened) The 1977 theory at the end of thread was accomplished with some help from my fellow posters. It's a very good theory, and most likely the explanation of what happened to the women on LOST after the incident.

Don't be so modest Foghat. It's the Perfect Theory...and has superwomen in it.

When the Apollo bar made an appearance in the scene with Claire and Jack, was that supposed to be the Cameo of the Week? Or was there a plot driven reason why he'd stop to get a candybar neither he nor Claire wanted. I didn't get the moment either way.

Don't be so modest Foghat. It's the Perfect Theory...and has superwomen in it.


Gosh Piecar, I'm blushing!! :redface:



When the Apollo bar made an appearance in the scene with Claire and Jack, was that supposed to be the Cameo of the Week? Or was there a plot driven reason why he'd stop to get a candybar neither he nor Claire wanted. I didn't get the moment either way.


According to BillToons: That's right folks APOLLO bars! The girls loved them and they could eat as many as they wanted. The candy would leave behind a slight trace of silver oxide in the bloodstream which reacted badly to exotic matter causing their wombs to age 5 times faster than they did.


Claire knew not to touch that Apollo Bar.

Update:

Threads are fun: Towards the end of the 3rd page we have worked our way to this possible theory:

My idea is this: The properties of the exotic matter that were released into the environment and drinking water from the 1977 incident, didn't actually hurt the residents of the island, but actually boosted their healing abilities, immune systems, and cell reproduction. So much so, that instead of welcoming a new fetus into it's womb, a woman's body would now see it as a foreign invader and start attacking it.

This would also explain the elevated sperm counts in the men.

And maybe the properties of the exotic matter that were released into the Island's environment back in 1977 boosted the healing abilities of a certain paraplegic and a particular person with terminal cancer in 2004, miraculously regaining his ability to walk and curing her terminal illness. :)

And maybe the properties of the exotic matter that were released into the Island's environment back in 1977 boosted the healing abilities of a certain paraplegic and a particular person with terminal cancer in 2004, miraculously regaining his ability to walk and curing her terminal illness. :)

Great thoughts! :)

We don't know for sure what the healing capabilities of the island were before the incident. However, with this theory, the healing capabilities of the island would be significantly improved after, either healing more serious diseases, or healing at a much higher rate of speed.

People like you put the writers to shame.

I mean that as a compliment. Viewers like yourself can easily with a bit of thought tie loose ends together or come up with brilliantly complex answers to big mysteries.
All Darlton can do after having three years knowing their end date is scratch their ***** and say "Not enough time" or the classic line "It's about characters". Ironically, season 6 is the least character driven season of them all and the characters themselves are so 2d and hollow they make Noddy look amazingly complex with a lot of depth.


I disagree. Well, not with your analysis of Fog's piecing things together, I think it's an admirable job as well. But I think this goes to show the line the writers walk between the midichlorian reveal, and keeping mystique. They COULD go into everything that Fog covered, but it wouldn't be an episode of Lost. It would be a procedural show, or pure sci-fi, etc. These connections couldn't be made without the structure the writers put there. Just because they didn't go into full explanation of every little piece of minutiae doesn't mean that they didn't do enough research and put enough thought into the show to allow for digging such as Fog did to yield logical results.

I think people tend to miss the most important contribution this show has made to television: It has given many a viewer a thirst for information about things that they would have otherwise not even had thought to look into. It has also promoted uncoerced, and mostly unmoderated intellectual collaboration from people from a variety of all walks of life, and it has promoted, at least to many in its audience, an exploration of the history of humanity's search for the meaning of everything, through both science and religion.

The most important message of the show, in my opinion, is that if you're willing to do the work a look, the answers of Lost, like the answers of most things, are there.


And Fog:

Very sick theory! I love it.

I disagree. Well, not with your analysis of Fog's piecing things together, I think it's an admirable job as well. But I think this goes to show the line the writers walk between the midichlorian reveal, and keeping mystique. They COULD go into everything that Fog covered, but it wouldn't be an episode of Lost. It would be a procedural show, or pure sci-fi, etc. These connections couldn't be made without the structure the writers put there. Just because they didn't go into full explanation of every little piece of minutiae doesn't mean that they didn't do enough research and put enough thought into the show to allow for digging such as Fog did to yield logical results.

I think people tend to miss the most important contribution this show has made to television: It has given many a viewer a thirst for information about things that they would have otherwise not even had thought to look into. It has also promoted uncoerced, and mostly unmoderated intellectual collaboration from people from a variety of all walks of life, and it has promoted, at least to many in its audience, an exploration of the history of humanity's search for the meaning of everything, through both science and religion.

The most important message of the show, in my opinion, is that if you're willing to do the work a look, the answers of Lost, like the answers of most things, are there.


And Fog:

Very sick theory! I love it.


Enigma, You were absolutely right. The clues were all there the whole time...

I read through some other threads, and for people ***mod edit***, they were content just accepting that it was the incident that caused the pregnancy problems. For people like me, I wanted to know HOW the incident could have caused the problem in order for me to accept it as part of confirmed LOST history. This is important to me because I feel it is a gift that the writers and creators gave to the viewers of LOST to be more involved in the show.

It is nice to be reminded how lazy our generation has become where it is so difficult for so many to enjoy someone else's creation if it involves throwing in a little of our own time and energy. LOST has never been about sitting back and relaxing and waiting for the answers to come in the next episode. In fact, you better have all the DVD's and transcripts starting from the first season, because you never know what you're going to need to go back and see...;)

i agree. thats why we sit and criticize each others opinions because we have all drawn our own inferences.

I disagree. Well, not with your analysis of Fog's piecing things together, I think it's an admirable job as well. But I think this goes to show the line the writers walk between the midichlorian reveal, and keeping mystique. They COULD go into everything that Fog covered, but it wouldn't be an episode of Lost. It would be a procedural show, or pure sci-fi, etc. These connections couldn't be made without the structure the writers put there. Just because they didn't go into full explanation of every little piece of minutiae doesn't mean that they didn't do enough research and put enough thought into the show to allow for digging such as Fog did to yield logical results.

I think people tend to miss the most important contribution this show has made to television: It has given many a viewer a thirst for information about things that they would have otherwise not even had thought to look into. It has also promoted uncoerced, and mostly unmoderated intellectual collaboration from people from a variety of all walks of life, and it has promoted, at least to many in its audience, an exploration of the history of humanity's search for the meaning of everything, through both science and religion.

The most important message of the show, in my opinion, is that if you're willing to do the work a look, the answers of Lost, like the answers of most things, are there.


And Fog:

Very sick theory! I love it.

But the writers clearly gave a quick "Oh, it was the incident. We're done with that story." when asked about the pregnancy problem and didn't wish to discus it further.

Therefore you can't credit them with giving us the clues that we use to make our theories. For example Fog's explantion involved Egyptians which we have learnt or seen nothing of. That's not clever, tha's giving the audience a completely empty section of the story which can be used to fill in the plot holes the writers make.

In other words, things like that are far too conveniet to be able to explain away their mistakes.

Anyway, my main gripe with the show is the story telling not necessarily the actual story or answers. For example the answer to the whispers mystery wasn't a shock everyone pretty much guessed it but the way they wrote it into the story in the end was pathetic.
Their story telling ability has seriously declined.

I would give them credit if they gave a cohesive and great story which helped connect the dots with the statue and the pregnancy problem and presence of Egyptians (why Dharma used hyroglyphics (spelling?).

So, if we were given a series of random events and a couple of weird objects and people like Fog used them to come up with a story and clever theory then you can't say that makes the person who gave us the random events is fantastic. Because the creativity comes from the viewer.

Also, i was under the impression the point and fun of a "mystery" show and something that gets you forming theories is when you get t see if you were right or not in the end. With Lost it's been pretty much "Whatever you want it to be, it is guys".