From the way Desmond was pummeling Ben, we can assume he was trying to get him to "wake up" to the other version of his life, just as he has been for our L.A. Lostaways.

I LOVED the Ben/Alex/Danielle interaction this past week, but after a discussion with my son I realized how horrible it would be for ANY of them to "wake up."

Ben would learn that he had been a monster who abducted Alex and then disavowed her the instant before she died.

Danielle would learn that she had killed her husband and everyone else around her, had lost her child, had gone crazy and become a child kidnapper herself.

Alex would learn that her mother was a crazy woman, her natural father tried to kill her mother, her adoptive father was actually her kidnapper. She would know that the final words she had heard from Ben had broken her heart.

How could any of these three people look the others in the eye after that?

I don't want Ben, Danielle or Alex to wake up!

I can't believe I only have today and tomorrow left to theorize and discuss. I think I'm already having LOST withdrawal symptoms.

A nice point. I loved the interaction between them all too, hopefully they won't need to wake up.

Yes, it would be quite heartbreaking for them to "remember" all that. Hopefully, if any of them do "wake up", it'll only be Ben. The way he was "tearing up from the onions" made me think that perhaps he was remembering what happened to Alex in the other life.

Desmond's comment isn't that they need to wake up but to let go.

By the time Ben had dinner with Danielle and Alex, he had already started to remember--that was probably the point of showing him crying when he saw Alex studying.

What does Ben need to let go of in the Sideways since letting go seems to be Desmond's agenda?

What does Ben need to let go of in the Sideways since letting go seems to be Desmond's agenda?

Maybe he needs to let go of the sideways timeline itself. Like Jack, maybe he will be asked to sacrifice a world which could have existed had he chosen another path. If Jacob had interfered with this timeline, if they had never been aware of its possibility, then their choice wouldn't have been much of a choice at all.

Its possible that Ben was remembering the island, but he seemed to be genuinely touched that they were taking him in as a family member. Up to this point he only has his dad, and he is acting more as a caretaker for him than as a son.

From the way Desmond was pummeling Ben, we can assume he was trying to get him to "wake up" to the other version of his life, just as he has been for our L.A. Lostaways.

I LOVED the Ben/Alex/Danielle interaction this past week, but after a discussion with my son I realized how horrible it would be for ANY of them to "wake up."

Ben would learn that he had been a monster who abducted Alex and then disavowed her the instant before she died.

Danielle would learn that she had killed her husband and everyone else around her, had lost her child, had gone crazy and become a child kidnapper herself.

Alex would learn that her mother was a crazy woman, her natural father tried to kill her mother, her adoptive father was actually her kidnapper. She would know that the final words she had heard from Ben had broken her heart.

How could any of these three people look the others in the eye after that?

I don't want Ben, Danielle or Alex to wake up!

I can't believe I only have today and tomorrow left to theorize and discuss. I think I'm already having LOST withdrawal symptoms.

Oh you prefer them to keep in the Matrix? :biggrin:
Sadly i think the show is about open our eyes!!!;)

It is hard enough to relate to these Flash Sideways characters due to them almost being strangers to us, but to imagine how they might feel if they came to "remember" what their other life was is almost impossible for me.

Let's try it on just in a completely non-show related way as just a thought experiment.

***
It is a sunny day with a slight breeze as the long blond hair of the young woman who's hand you are holding is blowing around her head in bright glowing strands. She seems to be leaning out over a cliff edge, your grip holding her back. Tears are welling in her eyes as she looks at you beseechingly. You let go. She falls over the edge away from you. There is no scream.
***

What!? Who is this woman? I've never seen her before in my life? Was I trying to save her from committing suicide? Did I just murder her? What the hell was that? It must have been a dream but it was so real.
:confused:

With just one little blip of what seems to be a memory of something I don't think I would ever do, I'm not sure I would come up with that was alternate reality me doing that. I think I would come up with something more practical like wondering if I'm getting enough sleep or maybe I should have less beer and spicy foods. :biggrin:

Imagination is everything, but mine seems to be betraying me on this particular front. I can't put myself in FS Ben's shoes or any other of the FS characters and relate to how they might be feeling. I don't understand how Charlie could say "none of this matters". If I was a FS character I would be a bit biased towards my life, alternate me is a bit of a stranger. Why would I feel like these schizophrenic flashes are more real than what I have lived?

Anyone got any help for me on this? Because it's still nagging me a bit. And I really can't find myself mourning for FS Ben's future as he "remembers" things as it just seems too alien a concept to even empathize with.

I agree, Roy. It seems forced.
If you want to do a story about an Alt U, either someone comes and says, look, there is an alternative universe and I can prove it ... (and proceeds)
or
something goes whirrr and all of a sudden you're seeing out of you Alt self's eyes for a bit, and then maybe you go back, and you do that for awhile, and you realize this other world is real too.

Seeing flashes would just send me to the shrink with a request to change meds.
There has to be a mechanism where the Alts see the island, really see it, or go there.
Or like I said, someone exceptionally believable needs to tell you what's going on.
The fact that we haven't seen any indication that Alt Desmond has seen the island, well I find it forced that he's getting the passengers together.

And just like always, only some of the passengers matter. There were probably 200 plus, and he got the manifest, but he's focused on Jack, Claire, Hurley, Sayid, Locke, Ben, Kate (what about Sawyer and Miles)? How did he find out who mattered? (Rhetorical ?, don't expect them to think about the red-shirts).

The problem is, the Alt is a normal world without monsters, ghosts, immortals, etc.. It wouldn't be weird for the island group to imagine that anything could happen, but what wakes up the much more complacent Alt people?

From the way Desmond was pummeling Ben, we can assume he was trying to get him to "wake up" to the other version of his life, just as he has been for our L.A. Lostaways.

I LOVED the Ben/Alex/Danielle interaction this past week, but after a discussion with my son I realized how horrible it would be for ANY of them to "wake up."

Ben would learn that he had been a monster who abducted Alex and then disavowed her the instant before she died.

Danielle would learn that she had killed her husband and everyone else around her, had lost her child, had gone crazy and become a child kidnapper herself.

Alex would learn that her mother was a crazy woman, her natural father tried to kill her mother, her adoptive father was actually her kidnapper. She would know that the final words she had heard from Ben had broken her heart.

How could any of these three people look the others in the eye after that?

I don't want Ben, Danielle or Alex to wake up!

I can't believe I only have today and tomorrow left to theorize and discuss. I think I'm already having LOST withdrawal symptoms.
No, I think you are only looking at part of the picture. It's like a man coming back from the war, and only remembering that he killed many people, and loath himself for being a mass murderer.
You are forgetting about context. The soldier was a hero, not a murderer. He was in a battle field protecting his country and fellow soldiers.

It is often the people with the highest decency and sense of morals that are the hardest on themselves, because they forget about context. That's why they have to 'see'.

Ben also was in a different world on the island. He was being manipulated by MIB who was telling him he was doing this for a greater good. He was convinced that he was being guided by Jacob, a loving man that was protecting the island. That's why Ben mentioned (when he was with Miles and Richard getting the C4) that the monster was summoning him, and not the other way around. He was deceived.

Danielle was not crazy, she was a survivor in a crazy world. She kidnapped Aaron because she was confused and hunting for her own baby that had been stolen from her. She killed her husband and her other friends because they were infected by MIB, .. and were in fact preparing to kill her, and she recognized that.

And Alex was not betrayed by Ben. He honestly thought at that moment, that Keamy could not kill her. He was in total shock when Keamy pressed the trigger and she fell.

Desmond's task in showing them what happened on the island, is to allow them to see the whole picture, and to forgive themselves. Just like Locke had to stop punishing himself for the plane crash, and to move on. He did not cripple his father, it was an accident. But because he was too cocky about his new flight permit, the accident happened.

To see the entire scenario, and not just the acts they committed. To understand. To let go.
100%

I really just want them to live happily ever after in the sideways world... I think all three of them deserve that happiness.... :heart:

I don't think that it's possible to block out your past and be truly happy.

I should ad that Ben had other moments where he was purely selfish which had nothing to do with circumstance.. like when he sent Juliette's lover to the tail-section knowing that he would probably be killed. And then bringing Juliette there to see the decaying body. That was not motivated by good. That was wrong. He did a lot of selfish things for control and personal gain. He has to face those things too, not just vindicate all his actions as being circumstantial.

When we do have the courage to see the 'whole picture', we will also see moments of selfishness, greed, and indifference as well. It's the hardest thing to acknowledge.. our own real, unexcusable faults.

People fight very hard not to see these thing, and suffer panic attacks and even illness, whenever these truths try to surface by themselves. We are not perfect. And the very fact that people do experience these manifestations, is because they know that they were wrong in what they may have done.

That's a good thing, because it makes it a lot less likely that they will ever do it again. But it's also painful and frightening because it shows us that we were not born perfect, we can only try to strive for perfection after many trials and errors. Having a conscience is rewarding but difficult.

All our Losties each have that to face as well. That's why it's so hard to do... takes a lot of good smacks in the head (poor Linus) and getting hit by cars (poor Locke). Happiness comes with understanding and forgiveness, not by repression. I think that is Desmond's task.