Sorry if this has been mentioned in one of the other 'List' threads but it just occurred to me:
If Benry sent Goodwin to infiltrate the Tail Section Survivors and gave him 3 days to make a list then why were the Tailies attacked and taken on the first night before Goodwin had time to make his list and report back to Benry?

Well, I guess he got the list and reported back faster. Still... Ana did say, that first day "no one knew anybody's name".

Very interesting observation. :)

I'm thinking that Benry sent some more Others to take out a few before they got the list, and the list came after that. Not sure about this, but maybe.

Maybe the Tallies were not attacked by the Benry guys...maybe another group of "renegade" people who live on the island....maybe a group that escaped from the Benry folks....or another group of ex-DHARMA who don't have as much as the Benry folks

Bawstngrl

Maybe the Tallies were not attacked by the Benry guys...maybe another group of "renegade" people who live on the island....maybe a group that escaped from the Benry folks....or another group of ex-DHARMA who don't have as much as the Benry folks

Bawstngrl

That was my thought, it would make more sense then Benry sending more "Others" before Goodwin had time to do his "job"

It may also explain the other kid in the cage, I know that alot of people think that he was an "Other" put there to mess with Sawyer's mind but what if he wasn't? What if he has from another group on the island?

Sorry if this has been mentioned in one of the other 'List' threads but it just occurred to me:
If Benry sent Goodwin to infiltrate the Tail Section Survivors and gave him 3 days to make a list then why were the Tailies attacked and taken on the first night before Goodwin had time to make his list and report back to Benry?

I think the others already had the list of names, they just wanted Goodwin to scout out the good ones. He was suppose to find the ones among the list that, were either strong, or good. ( considering , I'm still not sure what he was exactly looking for). But Ana did point out that no one knew each others name the first night, and considering that it seem like the others camp was far from the tallie's camp site. It would have taken some time for Goodwin to get the list to Henry, and get back without someone noticing him missing, exspecially, considering that Ana notice that Nathan was gone for two hours, so I'm sure she would have notice if Goodwin was missing.

Question: If Goodwin was a spy for the others, and Ana killed him. Than who was it that told Ben that it was Ana that killed Goodwin?

Good point about them finding out ana killed goodwin. But i think the first few were taken the first night just because they were the strongest. Not because they were on the list, they removed them first so it'd be easier to take the rest.

Maybe the Tallies were not attacked by the Benry guys...maybe another group of "renegade" people who live on the island....maybe a group that escaped from the Benry folks....or another group of ex-DHARMA who don't have as much as the Benry folks
Or maybe the remnants of the indigenous population that built the four-toed statue. I thought the same thing - there are more than one group of Others on the island.

Where are the kidnapped people? Where are the children? Why did the children look so rag-tag walking through the jungle in season 2? The Others certainly don't seem rag-tag unless they dress up at it for someone else's benefit. It seems strange to me that we didn't see the children around the Other's village. They wouldn't even need to break them. The children would follow because the Others were adults taking care of them. I know someone (Tom or Benry or Goodwin - can't remember) said the children were fine but if they have them, where are they?
Question: If Goodwin was a spy for the others, and Ana killed him. Than who was it that told Ben that it was Ana that killed Goodwin?
Good question. Kinda makes you wonder about Benry's loyalty.
But i think the first few were taken the first night just because they were the strongest. Not because they were on the list, they removed them first so it'd be easier to take the rest.
But why "take" them? If the Others just walked down to the beach and offered help, the survivors would have gone willingly. After all, they were waiting to be rescued.

Getting back to the Others dressing up for someone else's benefit - why bother when no one knows you anyway? Could it be to blend with the indigenous population and move through the jungle more safely? Did I just answer my own question about the children? If so, why keep them hidden? Is the Other's village under threat of attack?

I don't think goodwin had reported back to 'Othersville' I don't think he was the only 'other' in the proximity of the 'taillies' he may have had to only go into the jungle a little, pass the list off to someone else who would then report it back to Ben and that way Goodwin wouldn't have to be gone all that long.

in answering who told Ben that Ana killed Goodwin I believe Cindy to be the most likely person

Hopefully this season we'll find out exactly what happened to her.

I think the opening scene of this season was written so long after the attack on the Tailies that the writers / producers simply forgot.

They're making this stuff up as they go along and not doing a good job with the continuity

I agree with what a lot of you are saying. This is yet another reason to think that there is more than one group out there.

Question: If Goodwin was a spy for the others, and Ana killed him. Than who was it that told Ben that it was Ana that killed Goodwin?


Cindy? (Isn't that the name of the tailie who was kidnapped on the trek across the island to the fuselage camp?)

I wonder if we'll see her again this season... she wasn't in the Otherburbs during the opening of season 3.

These are very interesting issues. Seeing them in action, of how quickly Ben thinks and acts, and how quickly the two adapt to the circumstances brings me unavoidably the idea that this was not the first time they did this!!! And it is a creepy thought. :eek:

Cindy? (Isn't that the name of the tailie who was kidnapped on the trek across the island to the fuselage camp?)

I wonder if we'll see her again this season... she wasn't in the Otherburbs during the opening of season 3.

Of course she wasn't. Why would she be? She was on the plane that was crashing.

If there was another renagade group that took the Tallies then Goodwin wouldn't have told Ana that the kids were fine. He would have said " We didn't take them."

But I did notice this point right away when Ben told Goodwin to report back in three days. Plans just must have changed. There's got to be more ways of surlveillance availalbe for Ben. Think of the whispers. Who ever they are, they are watching everything. And they seem to be part of the Others too. Maybe Ben was afraid that the Tallies would move out into the jungle and they would loose them. The Tallies talked about doing that. So who knows. Just another puzzle piece not in place.

Maybe the Tallies were not attacked by the Benry guys...maybe another group of "renegade" people who live on the island....maybe a group that escaped from the Benry folks....or another group of ex-DHARMA who don't have as much as the Benry folks

Bawstngrl

That is impossible, as Ben said to Ana lucia that they killed 2 of their men, 2 good men that didn't do anything wrong.

That is impossible, as Ben said to Ana lucia that they killed 2 of their men, 2 good men that didn't do anything wrong.

Yeah, especially Ethan was a good man. He was kind enough to drag two people into the jungle, hang Charlie by the neck and leave him to die, drug Claire, beat the crap out of Jack, kill Scott and promised to kill one more every day... A real nice guy. Who did nothing wrong.

A real nice guy. Who did nothing wrong.

EXACTLY.

Didn't Goodwin mention knowing the other that Ana killed with the rock too?

Goodwin took credit for the kidnapping of the children saying "They're better off now".

Now Damon is saying thier are more than one group of others on the island in the video podcast, so we should all be prepared for a big fat story contradiction me thinks.

Yeah, especially Ethan was a good man. He was kind enough to drag two people into the jungle, hang Charlie by the neck and leave him to die, drug Claire, beat the crap out of Jack, kill Scott and promised to kill one more every day... A real nice guy. Who did nothing wrong.

Well acording to Ben they did nothing wrong...they were just following orders without question.

I'm wondering if there was or is a plan for Eko... were they spotted by him and had to eliminate the witness so they tried to take him or were they trying to take him and he stopped them. if it's the latter is there still a plan in the works for Mr. Eko?

Well didnt one of them have the list. So maybe they came to take the list from Goodwyn then act upon the people he had listed.

I'm afraid they are really having a problem with continuity vis-a-vis Season 2. Benry told Ethan and Goodwin 'Listen and learn - don't get involved'. That sure didn't happen.
He told them he wanted lists in 3 days - the Tailee's were supposedly only about an hour from Otherville, but our Losties were at least 2 days away based upon what we learned in Season 2. I suppose Ethan could be superhuman and run that distance but I think the writers are just ignoring parts of Season 2 that didn't make much sense and know that most of the audience won't notice, or care.

Oldwiz

that would really suck if it's just all a bunch of continuity and time errors on the part of the writers and kind of insulting to the people who have been watching thsi show from the beginning and tying to keep up with it....to say "oh we'll do it this way...like someone's gonna notice the difference"

Im pretty sure what the creators mean by "more than one group of others" is that there is more than one faction within the group we know. Perhaps two factions with contradicitng opinions (like ben and juliet)

Well didnt one of them have the list. So maybe they came to take the list from Goodwyn then act upon the people he had listed.

Yes. That was Goodwin's list. Goodwin proved he was allied with the kidnappers of the 9 Tailies on night 12 from his conversation about them with Ana. Because Goodwin was allied with them, and is working under the direction of Ben, we have to assume the kidnappers were from Ben's group. Simple.

The kidnappers of the 3 adult male Tailies, including the two men who abducted Eko, on the first night were also from Ben's group. This is a fact because one of these 3 kidnapped guys, (the tall 50ish man with a short grey beard), showed up in LTDA as one of the party who darted Jack and Kate.

I just watched The Other 48 Days, and can tell you there's no evidence of a second party of others. The Tailies and Ben's people. That's all. As compelling an idea as that is, there has never been evidence of a second others. Not yet.

Also, no children appeared among either kidnappers. All adult males with one adult female that Ana killed on night 12.

that would really suck if it's just all a bunch of continuity and time errors on the part of the writers and kind of insulting to the people who have been watching thsi show from the beginning and tying to keep up with it....to say "oh we'll do it this way...like someone's gonna notice the difference"

At the start of Season 2 it's set out that Desmond has been in the Swan the whole time and has been afraid of the outside world - the sickness, his arguments with Jack about it being a game, the importance of the button etc
At the end, he knows there's no sickness, he knows about certain aspects of the island, he knows there's a failsafe and he's relieved to hear Locke banging on the hatch.

TPTB changed the plot and brought back a character that had probably been intended to be a bit part - now we have the storyline about Desmond, the boat, the Brazilians in the snow.

The main thread of Lost was buried beneath a tangled mess of plotholes and continuity errors long ago.

Can they retrieve it ? Do they want to ?

Not having learned from the introduction of the Tailies and the saturation of characters, flashbacks and storylines, TPTB have now introduced a whole group of Others who's actions on the island will no doubt be explained by convenient flashbacks and appearances in the Losties pre-island lives.

Most of these connections will never ben explained and so far, after two seasons, we've only had the Jack / Sawyer / Jack's father moment to entertain us....despite Locke working for Hurley's box company amongst many other things.

Or maybe the remnants of the indigenous population that built the four-toed statue. I thought the same thing - there are more than one group of Others on the island.

Getting back to the Others dressing up for someone else's benefit - why bother when no one knows you anyway? Could it be to blend with the indigenous population and move through the jungle more safely? Did I just answer my own question about the children? If so, why keep them hidden? Is the Other's village under threat of attack?

I also think there are more groups of "Others" but I am not sure if they are different groups or factions within one group. :undecide:
I like this idea of Benry's group using the disguises to blend with another group possibly for safety and to possibly use it as a way of getting the other Others blamed for things. Still not sure who has the kids, or who came on that first night though!!

I agree that Ben's group could have found out about Goodwin from Cindy, if they are the folks that took Cindy :confused:

Im pretty sure what the creators mean by "more than one group of others" is that there is more than one faction within the group we know. Perhaps two factions with contradicitng opinions (like ben and juliet)


Actaully we know that there are 9 factions of the Others according to the October 2nd podcast.


We also know Cindy is supposed to be back in season 3!!!

Who said anything about names? Ben said "list", and that's it. The othersville is just an hour away from the tailes' beach. The only names that were on that list are of those people who have already been captured. What is disturbing, though, is that Nathan was gone for TWO hours. It kind of makes you think, huh?

Im pretty sure what the creators mean by "more than one group of others" is that there is more than one faction within the group we know. Perhaps two factions with contradicitng opinions (like ben and juliet)
Yes, to be fair it was a FAN asking the question that used the phrase "more than one group", but Damon and Carlton just hinted at some disagreements or conflicts within the group. I really thought they were hinting more at people like Juliet and Alex.

I do wonder what happened between the crash and night 1 with the tailies. Maybe that crash point was a lot closer to the Hydra or Otherland-suburbia, so it was easier to bring in reinforcements quickly. Also, they certainly were more vulnerable, with fewer survivors and no supplies.

EXACTLY.

Didn't Goodwin mention knowing the other that Ana killed with the rock too?

Goodwin took credit for the kidnapping of the children saying "They're better off now".

Now Damon is saying thier are more than one group of others on the island in the video podcast, so we should all be prepared for a big fat story contradiction me thinks.

The podcast is the first thing I thought of when I read this thread. Is it me or now that it's a VIDEO podcast this year it even harder to tell wheather these two are being truthful or just goofing around! 9 different groups of others? :eek2: I really hope not! I'm confused now!

By saying "Ben and Juliet" i meant that they were examples of two different factions.
And Carfreak where did you get the information that there were nine groups of others, i have never heard that before

I'm afraid they are really having a problem with continuity vis-a-vis Season 2. Benry told Ethan and Goodwin 'Listen and learn - don't get involved'. That sure didn't happen.

Once they were on their own, Ethan and Goodwin needed to use their own judgment about how to best get the info that Benry wanted, so they HAD to "get involved" to some extent...or else they would look suspicious to the survivors by virtue of keeping to themselves too much.

Of course, Ethan did pretty much keep to himself until Hurley discovered that Ethan wasn't on the manifest.

The Tailies were a smaller group, so it was harder for Goodwin to blend in. If he had made himself an outcast from the group, he would have raised even more suspicion that he was an infiltrator.

Perhaps Benry, as per his verbal instructions, just intended on having Ethan and Goodwin spy on the crash survivors from afar...but once each men arrived at their respective camps, they used their own discretion and attempted to "blend in" so they could gain more detailed information for their lists?

Yeah, especially Ethan was a good man. He was kind enough to drag two people into the jungle, hang Charlie by the neck and leave him to die, drug Claire, beat the crap out of Jack, kill Scott and promised to kill one more every day... A real nice guy. Who did nothing wrong.

Wasn't it Steve :rolleyes:

I agree with dudepower, standing around doing nothin wouldnt be blending in, you would actually be sticking out more because alot of people would be mad at you because of your lack of contribution.
Ben gave them simple instructions that were up for alot of interpretation, im sure Ben meant it that way, Ethan and Goodwin, ultimately, screwed up somewhere or another, and got killed.

I agree with dudepower, standing around doing nothin wouldnt be blending in, you would actually be sticking out more because alot of people would be mad at you because of your lack of contribution.
Ben gave them simple instructions that were up for alot of interpretation, im sure Ben meant it that way, Ethan and Goodwin, ultimately, screwed up somewhere or another, and got killed.

I think a reasonable interpretation of 'Listen and learn - Don't get involved' would mean not getting involved in leadership/political issues that arise naturally in that kind of situation. Listen and Learn means, to me, just going with the flow and picking up whatever info they could. 'What' that info was is another story - we don't know yet.

What is apparent though, is that the 'others' didn't know what or who was on the plane - they didn't even know where it came from.

Oldwiz

Thanks Wiz, I didnt remeber what Ben told Ethan and Goodwin about listening, i guess Goodwin didnt follow his orders very well, didnt Ethan, on the otherhand, more or less get exposed.

mgarbs, i heard that there were "9 factions of the Others" in the October 2nd official lost podcast. here http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index and download the podcast.

Thanks Wiz, I didnt remeber what Ben told Ethan and Goodwin about listening, i guess Goodwin didnt follow his orders very well, didnt Ethan, on the otherhand, more or less get exposed.

Ethan didn't follow his orders either. Remember Tom scolding him in the medical station after he brought Claire back - 'You were just supposed to get a list...'

I personally think the timing with Goodwin is just a continuity error and we can probably ignore it (or go crazy, otherwise...) I mean, it's close enough for government work... :biggrin:

Oldwiz

i like the theory about maybe being other people on the island. its been said we will find out who was also on the island before dharma arrived there this season. what im thinking is that theres another group and that group sent that other guy(whos name i dont remember) who ana thought was an other and then goodwin let him go but then killed him, maybe thats why goodwin killed him cuz he was part of another group. Even i was questioning his story about being 2 hours in teh bathroom on the plane, and then disapeared two hours in the jungle.could that be why he wanted goodwin there so quickly but yet didnt really say anything 2 ethan about gettin there as fast as goodwin. any thoughts?

thanks Carfreak for the info, i didnt know they actually said how many groups there were, and sorry Wiz, my info is a bit spotty on Season 1, i have'nt seen most of it sice the dvd set release.

PS: What do you guys think of my new avatar and signature, their both Watchmen (Alan Moore) inspired. The avatars just a simple windows paint edit of the Pearl logo, the signature is the quote from which Watchmen gets its namesake.

mgarbs, i heard that there were "9 factions of the Others" in the October 2nd official lost podcast.


Ok, to everyone who is new to the Official Lost Podcasts, please know that you should be prepared to take things that Damon and Carlton say with a grain of salt. The guys love to joke around, you can't really take future events on the show that they talk about as truth.

I remember before the S.O.S episode last year, they said something like "watch out for Neil Frogurt" as he would be very important, and he was just the frozen yogurt guy that Bernard made a comment about. No bearing whatsoever on anything.

The 9 factions of others sounds like a joke to me. :biggrin:

Btw, I'm still waiting for "Season 7: Zombies!":biggrin:

The kidnappers of the 3 adult male Tailies, including the two men who abducted Eko, on the first night were also from Ben's group. This is a fact because one of these 3 kidnapped guys, (the tall 50ish man with a short grey beard), showed up in LTDA as one of the party who darted Jack and Kate.

Is this being discussed somewhere else? I haven't heard about this yet, and I'm confused because I don't think we really saw who the 3 kidnapped guys were.

Maybe the Tallies were not attacked by the Benry guys...maybe another group of "renegade" people who live on the island....maybe a group that escaped from the Benry folks....or another group of ex-DHARMA who don't have as much as the Benry folks

Bawstngrl
remember when mr. eko tells henry (at that point, he was still henry) in the armory that he killed 2 people the first night? didn't henry at some point say that they were good people, meaning the ones that eko killed?

remember when mr. eko tells henry (at that point, he was still henry) in the armory that he killed 2 people the first night? didn't henry at some point say that they were good people, meaning the ones that eko killed?

Yes...When Fenry attacked Ana in Two For The Road, he said "you" killed 2 of my people...they were good people"....then Locke clubbed him. Of course, Ana only killed one...a woman...with a rock....who had thie list in HER pocket. Eko capped two for a total of 3...I think.

I'm pretty sure when Ben ordered Goodwin to get to the tail section, he stopped and got a team together. No idea why his helpers were dressed all rag tag...Interesting mystery. Also..."I want a list in 3 days"??? A list of "what"? Names? "Good" survivors?
Still pretty vague.

All right, let's say that Goodwin was only an hour away from the Tailies when the plane crashed. Didn't Ana Lucia say he came out of the jungle ten minutes after the crash with dry clothes? How would he get there in ten minutes?

The tail section was only an hour or so away from Othersville. As a result, it made it easier for the Others to go in on the first night and take away the strongest survivors (as per Goodwin, who strangely wouldn't have known about this attack and what they were doing UNLESS the Others have done this kind of thing before). By taking away the strongest survivors, it allowed Goodwin to compile his list, get it to the Others, and the Others to take whomever they please without threat.

The fuselage, on the otherhand, was all the way on the other side of the island. Maybe Ben, and all the Others, misjudged how far away it was and that put a bit of a stop on their "3 day" plan... But whether or not that is the case, the Others didn't have the advantage of going in and taking out the threats that they had with the Talies.

And I really think that something has happened since Ben gave them their instructions. Is it possible that after the 3 days (or maybe possibly more), Goodwin and Ethan both returned back to Othersville to report on what was happening. And that's how they discovered about Claire and the baby. And that's how Ben knew that Goodwin thought that Ana Luica could be "turned" good even though she didn't initially fit the description.

I mean, for him to know that, Goodwin HAD to of returned, no? Obviously they could of known about Claire and the baby through some sort of surveillance, but I think its just as likely the knowledge came through Ethan (lets face it, with 48 survivors and how "low" Ethan was keeping in the beginning, he probably could have left for a few days and not been noticed).

I dunno. I just think its silly to bark continuity error when we don't yet fully understand everything that has happened... or is going on.

Q. Didn't Ana Lucia say he came out of the jungle ten minutes after the crash with dry clothes? How would he get there in ten minutes?

A. It could be that Ana meant that Goodwin appeared 10 minutes after all the Tailies made it to the beach OR this is yet another continuity error on the part of the writers.

Or how about Ana Lucia would have been in no state of mind to make any such judgement of time at that point?

And as you said, if you watch the Other 48 Days again, Goodwin does come running out screaming for help when pretty much everyone has actually gotten out of the water (Is it before Eko goes on his "body clean-up"?).

And just to claify one more time, no one can claim a continuity error (on the part of the Others taking the Talies on the first night whereas Ben gave clear instructions to get him a list in 3 days) as we have absolutely no knowledge of what transpired directly after that little event... Maybe Ben and Juliet and a few other Others all sat down and had a meeting on what would be the best thing to do (and they came up with the idea of taking the strongest from the Tail section survivors, cause of their close vicinty ra ra ra). Until we know eveything that happened, is it not a continuety error to claim continuety error? :biggrin: I just made that up. I don't even think it made sense. But... You know

Yes, the 10 minutes comment is a problem, but I am not worried about it at the time. Ana was busy dragging people out of the water, giving CPR, etc. Who knows how closely she could have paid attention?

Also, I agree absolutely-lost. Ben probably held a longer meeting after Ethan and Goodwin ran for it. They would have wanted to more complete plan. I really hope we get to see some more evidence of this scheming.

Yes...When Fenry attacked Ana in Two For The Road, he said "you" killed 2 of my people...they were good people"....then Locke clubbed him. Of course, Ana only killed one...a woman...with a rock....who had thie list in HER pocket. Eko capped two for a total of 3...I think.

I'm pretty sure when Ben ordered Goodwin to get to the tail section, he stopped and got a team together. No idea why his helpers were dressed all rag tag...Interesting mystery. Also..."I want a list in 3 days"??? A list of "what"? Names? "Good" survivors?
Still pretty vague.

Ana also killed Goodwin. I am unsure whether the woman Ana killed with a rock was affiliated with Goodwin at all. She did have a list (apparently that's important on this island), though.

Goodwin can be seen running, alone, toward the tail section crash site as the camera pans back to reveal the entirety of the village.

Why didn't they tazer Eko instead of trying brute force? Because these weren't the Others with tazers?

Yeah, especially Ethan was a good man. He was kind enough to drag two people into the jungle, hang Charlie by the neck and leave him to die, drug Claire, beat the crap out of Jack, kill Scott and promised to kill one more every day... A real nice guy. Who did nothing wrong


They never showed Ethan killing scott/steve, nor show him hanging Charlie, and the fight with Jack, didn't happen according to Kate. So since those scene was never shown, Ethan might not have did those things, if the others are truely good as they claim.

Im pretty sure what the creators mean by "more than one group of others" is that there is more than one faction within the group we know. Perhaps two factions with contradicitng opinions (like ben and juliet)

..or the the other group might be "The Hostile", that Kelvin told Desmond about. Since we know that the others use to work for Dharma, than it's possible that the Hostile are the people that they experimented on., or people who have the disease that the french lady talked about. I do not think the Others and the The Hostile are the same.

What is disturbing, though, is that Nathan was gone for TWO hours. It kind of makes you think, huh?

Goodwin had made a statement about Nathan not being good, which makes me wonder if Nathan was from a different group. If Nathan was from another group, than it would explain why he was gone for two hours, and why no one claim to have seen him on the plane.

Why didn't they tazer Eko instead of trying brute force? Because these weren't the Others with tazers?

Aha!!!!...Excellent point.

What if when Ben was attacking Ana and he said "you killed 2 of my men" He meant "You" in the sense of all the crash survivors. Ana killed Goodwin and Charlie killed Ethan.

And if this is such a big deal to Hnery then why is he not upset about the man that they shot (Jack, Hurley, Michael, Kate, Sawyer) when they were going to rescue Walt in the season 2 Finale? I think because the person they shot was not of Benry's group! Wouldn't he know that another man had been killed by now?

Maybe Benry's group dresses like the "other others" because they know about them and hope that people will assume that they them by their dress?

I am still sticking to the two groups of others theory.

ana killed a younger other in the TO48D

ana killed a younger other in the TO48D

OK. But why did I think that was a woman?

there is always the posibility that this is just an inconsistancy in the script. Lindelof said that the henry gale others are not the only group (He used a different word) of others on the island.

Why didn't they tazer Eko instead of trying brute force? Because these weren't the Others with tazers?
Maybe because they were trying to keep up the sham of being poor island people with no shoes and no resources?

Maybe because they were trying to keep up the sham of being poor island people with no shoes and no resources?

True, but in LTDA the others had no qualms about hitting the losties with darts and then showing up in their rags costumes.

I think the others already had the list of names, they just wanted Goodwin to scout out the good ones. He was suppose to find the ones among the list that, were either strong, or good. ( considering , I'm still not sure what he was exactly looking for). But Ana did point out that no one knew each others name the first night, and considering that it seem like the others camp was far from the tallie's camp site. It would have taken some time for Goodwin to get the list to Henry, and get back without someone noticing him missing, exspecially, considering that Ana notice that Nathan was gone for two hours, so I'm sure she would have notice if Goodwin was missing.

Question: If Goodwin was a spy for the others, and Ana killed him. Than who was it that told Ben that it was Ana that killed Goodwin?

Probably Cindy told them... Ana kind of let the group know she took care of Goodwin.

True, but in LTDA the others had no qualms about hitting the losties with darts and then showing up in their rags costumes.

Good point. I'd guess that by that time they weren't too concerned with keeping up appearances since they already had Jack, Kate & Sawyer captive. This is probably why Bea addressed and repeated Kate's comment about the fake beards, and why Tom decided to remove his.

Although Ben seemed to think that the beards were still necessary when he showed up, I tend to think of Ben as a 'by the book' kind of leader, so he probably expected his subordinates to keep up the disguises... if not for Hurley's sake, for the sake of completing a mission as ordered.

Also, I will not dismiss the possibility that there may be two groups at play on the island, as it's conceivable that the ones who attacked the Tailies on the first night (and the ones Eko and Jin saw in the jungle) may not be affiliated with Goodwin and his group.

On the other hand, Goodwin did seem to silently mourn the one that Ana killed with a rock. I'm thinking he may have created the list within a matter of hours, given it to another Other who was nearby in the woods, who in turn reported back to Ben, who then dispatched a group to infiltrate their camp at night and kidnap the stronger ones and/or the "good" ones.

Was it not Goodwin's idea to light a fire that first night? It seems that he did so to indicate to the Others (that he knew would be coming later that night) exactly where they set up camp.


ETA:
Also, if Cindy was indeed an Other while on the plane, do you think she knew who Jack was and how important he was/would be? Is this why she seemed to give him special attention? This may be reaching a bit, but could she have given him extra alcohol so that he would have a better chance of surviving the crashlanding?

Just a crazy thought... ;)

In regards to the chance of Ana misjudging the amount of time it took for Goodwin to show up... have we forgotten that she was a cop? She's used to stress, she's used to having to judge time for reports. Yeah, this is a once in a lifetime event, but turning ten minutes into an hour is a big screwup. And this was after most of them were out of the water, Eko was about to start pulling the dead from the water (check http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/48_Days_Lost.htm here), but from what we saw it all happened pretty fast. And if you watch the ep, you'll notice that everyone else's clothes and hair were still pretty wet. In that kind of climate, how long would it take for them to dry out? Did we have any way of telling time with the Fuselage people to compare?

The tazer thing gives me pause. I'm thinkin there are (at least) 2 groups of others. I base this on the Podcast, where they confirmed there are two groups, albeit in their semi-joking way...
I think there's the well dressed suburbanite's group, equipped with tazers from Benry's camp...and the rag tag barefooted bunch with guns & sticks. Certainly, Goodwin's bunch could have just tazered Eko & Ana those nites they started kidnapping (unless, of course, the tazer idea wasn't thought of by TPTB yet at the time of TO48D). Or perhaps they didn't tazer anyone cuz, they didn't want to have to carry their passed out bodies back across the island...much like Zeke/Tom didn't want to have to carry Michael in 3 Minutes. They needed them awake.

What if the rag tag group is the original Dharmites (and their decendents) from "a long time ago" that Juliette alluded to? They were forced out of Camp Suburbia and had to make it on their own, living in the wild and in the abandoned hatches? And they had the same idea of "collecting" the survivors with their own makeshift lists? That would explain why the girl Ana killed on the beach had a list in her pocket.

But I think when Benry said to Ana "you killed 2 of my people", he was speaking about that girl on the beach and Goodwin...which would imply they were on the same team of Others!! UGH!!

My head hurts.

I think the opening scene of this season was written so long after the attack on the Tailies that the writers / producers simply forgot.

They're making this stuff up as they go along and not doing a good job with the continuity

I doubt it. Instead, I think this is good evidence that there are two groups of "others." Also, Kelvin doesn't seem to have been a part of Ben's group. But that may not be the case.
100%
there is always the posibility that this is just an inconsistancy in the script. Lindelof said that the henry gale others are not the only group (He used a different word) of others on the island.

I doubt that they would make that large a mistake.

I was thinking they were two different groups, but I just remembered this: It was the barefoot others who took the children, right?

When Ana asked about the kids, it was Goodwin (civilized Other) who answered "The children are fine." (or something like that). So he had to know about the Barefoots taking the children, right?

I think Ethan did these things out of fear of disappointing Ben. He lost Claire and was desperate to fix the situation or suffer the consequences of Ben.

Yeah, especially Ethan was a good man. He was kind enough to drag two people into the jungle, hang Charlie by the neck and leave him to die, drug Claire, beat the crap out of Jack, kill Scott and promised to kill one more every day... A real nice guy. Who did nothing wrong.

In regards to the chance of Ana misjudging the amount of time it took for Goodwin to show up... have we forgotten that she was a cop? She's used to stress, she's used to having to judge time for reports.

Did you forget that Ana's entire story was basically one of a series of misjudgements she made over and over? She didn't handle the stress of that domestic distrubance very well. Or the dude that shot her and killled her baby. Her theory that Nathan was an Other was incorrect. She killed Shannon. Tied Sayad up for a day. I would even bet Nathan wasn't gone for two hours to take a dump in the jungle. I would also bet she was off with the amount of time it took Goodwin to appear.

You mean she wasnt staring at her watch timing someone as to when they'd coming out of the jungle?

Okay people, you know there's this thing called "Figure of Speech" that even characters on TV shows are allowed to use.

So I hope if someone on the show says, "Jeeze, I waited for you for a million years! Where were you?" I hope nobody here goes, 'Pshaw! Continuity error! Nobody could live that long!"

Yes, the 10 minutes comment is a problem, but I am not worried about it at the time. Ana was busy dragging people out of the water, giving CPR, etc. Who knows how closely she could have paid attention?
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Part of me thinks this is what the producers said when they told us we've seen the smoke monster more times than we've realized.

They never showed Ethan killing scott/steve, nor show him hanging Charlie, and the fight with Jack, didn't happen according to Kate. So since those scene was never shown, Ethan might not have did those things, if the others are truely good as they claim.

I don't think it matters if they showed Ethan killing Scott/Steve or hanging Charlie. I see no reason to believe that he didn't. The Others have already indicated that "the bad ones" are expendible IF they get in the way of their mission.

Although I believe that the Others have shown that they can discern between the good ones and the bad ones, the Others being "The Good Guys" is up for debate in my mind.

why would goodwin kill nathan? what reason?
if you also listen to the first 2 mins of lost premiere with the "prevously on lost" they had ana's line about how the first night they took three of us, then 3 days latr they came for 9. most be something the writers are trying to tell us. they did come the third night, so why 3 the first night? and why no tazers or guns, and how were they able to just pick people up and drag them into the jungle like it was nothing. and lets not forget desmonds comment about the natives in last seasons finale. maybe theres people out there like dannielle who went crazy or something.

why would goodwin kill nathan? what reason?
if you also listen to the first 2 mins of lost premiere with the "prevously on lost" they had ana's line about how the first night they took three of us, then 3 days latr they came for 9. most be something the writers are trying to tell us. they did come the third night, so why 3 the first night? and why no tazers or guns, and how were they able to just pick people up and drag them into the jungle like it was nothing. and lets not forget desmonds comment about the natives in last seasons finale. maybe theres people out there like dannielle who went crazy or something.

Goodwin killed Nathan because he knew that after Ana started cutting off his fingers, she would figure out he wasn't an Other...(by not confessing) and she would focus her attention to the next person...which may have exposed Goodwin. He did it to keep Nathan from talking....and convincing Ana "other"wise. But, she obviously had her suspicions about Goodwin, thus their little talk right before she killed him.

Like I said...once you tazer these people...they become dead weight. They may have had guns (we don't know)...forcing those they DID manage to capture away at gunpoint. But the two Eko capped...and the girl Ana killed on the beach didn't appeared armed with much more than sticks. I think they were simply relying on stealth for the kidnappings.

The more I think about it, the more I think those rag tag Others WERE with Goodwin...as Duckie pointed out...Goodwin said the children they took were "fine...better off". He didn't seem concerned at all that a rival faction may have taken them.

It makes sense that the Others wouldn't utilize their weapons until the Losties started packing. They simply underestimated Echo and Ana's strength at that time.

The real list represents people, that each one have one of the numbers assigned to them.

For example Jack is number 4, Kate is 8 etc.

Camp Benry is only interested about the people that have a number assigned to them.
They have followed their life before, and the whole coming to the island was setup by hanso foundation. This is the final place where they will try to change the numbers (i.e unpleasant tests and such).

If Jacks life/personality changes to something it hasn't been before, his number is no longer 4, and thus the doomsday forecast that the numbers set could be broken.

I doubt it. Instead, I think this is good evidence that there are two groups of "others." Also, Kelvin doesn't seem to have been a part of Ben's group. But that may not be the case.
100%


I doubt that they would make that large a mistake.

But they are making this up as they go along.

They were going to introduce a love story / quadrangle between Ana Lucia / Jack / Kate / Sawyer until it was met with disapproval and they decided against that.
Desmond and his situation in the Swan at the beginning of Season 2 are different at the end of Season 2. A change of storyline, an introduction of a new love tangle and inconsistencies were developed.
Fans were complaining about the lack of discussion or attempts to find a means to get off the island so that pathetic episode between Rose and Bernard is written where everyone drops out of the plan and Rose challenges him because - she was going to die before she got to the island...now she knows she's not.
The destruction of Locke and Eko as characters just so there's an argument about the button, conflict between the alpha males
That shortly after the sky turning violet, things falling from the sky, groudn shaking, incredible noises, Claire is found sitting on the beach and Charlie is cracking jokes.

When characters continually act in a certain manner which contradicts previous actions and is completely unrealistic with given situations, what is there left to care about ?

The island mysteries.

Well storylines are introduced and then dropped.
Jack has obviously been thinking about Dharma because he talks to Juliet about it in this episode. He figures out where he is ( and still opens the door ) and yet with everything that went on before - polar bears, Smokey, news of costumes in another bunker etc etc etc not once did he try to organise a reconnaissance trip on the island.

I've read in other threads how some fans don't want to watch discussions between the Losties about their situation, about their lives. Well i do because it would allow me to start thinking of them as realistic characters again.
I'd much prefer discussions to pathetic Charlie / Claire moments or yet another excuse to see Kate in a towel.
Now Evangeline Lilly is a stunningly beautiful woman but i'm not 12.

Like someone says above, maybe that's who the shows is being written for now.

Cindy? (Isn't that the name of the tailie who was kidnapped on the trek across the island to the fuselage camp?)

I wonder if we'll see her again this season... she wasn't in the Otherburbs during the opening of season 3.

We wouldn't see her in the opening sequence, she didn't go missing until long after that scene would have taken place.

But they are making this up as they go along.

Actually, "they" have said repeatedly that they know where they are going, but that the characters have a bit of organic control over the road it takes to get there. So, sorry, you and I will have to disagree about your "gripe."

why would goodwin kill nathan? what reason?
if you also listen to the first 2 mins of lost premiere with the "prevously on lost" they had ana's line about how the first night they took three of us, then 3 days latr they came for 9. most be something the writers are trying to tell us. they did come the third night, so why 3 the first night? and why no tazers or guns, and how were they able to just pick people up and drag them into the jungle like it was nothing. and lets not forget desmonds comment about the natives in last seasons finale. maybe theres people out there like dannielle who went crazy or something.

The obvious explanation for not using tazers and guns would be that the Others were trying to keep the tailies from realizing what was going on. It's the same reason why they were wearing fake beards and set up a fake camp. They're trying to project the illusion that they're no better off than the castaways. If they had used tazers the first night, that would have given away the game immediately.

Maybe the Tallies were not attacked by the Benry guys...maybe another group of "renegade" people who live on the island....maybe a group that escaped from the Benry folks....or another group of ex-DHARMA who don't have as much as the Benry folks

Bawstngrl


Well... on the Damon/Carlton LOST video podcast... they did say (a little too matter of factly... lol) there were "factions" of others... now, you have to take everything they say with a grain of salt, so I thought maybe it was more of an internal factions thing where their were different viewpoints or philosophies... but it may be two different groups altogether... although we know this is the group that took Walt, so it would follow that they also took the other children as well... things that make you go hmmm...lol.

Like Alonna said, there is not a raggy bunch and clean bunch of others. They are one in the same, that is why we were shown the costumes. That is why they didn't come armed, to keep up appearances. That is not to say that there aren't more groups but the group that has kidnapped the Losties, is more than likely Benry's.

What I really am confused about is why anyone thinks it takes an hour to get to the tailies camp and 2 days to get to the beach camp. We have never seen anyone travel from the Others Suburbia to either camp.

For all we know they can have an underground subway that would get them there in minutes. They may have the ability to teleport themselves. They could fly for all we know. (OK, I'll stop now before my ideas get even more ridiculous)

The point that I'm trying to make is that we don't need to haggle over time inconsistencies. Now that I've just typed that...haven't we had some major hints that the time on the island isn't necessarily to be judged as canon anyway. (Hurley's "Or another time" comment to Sayid, while listening to the radio).

I think that we are missing information regarding Goodwin communicating with his group (and much, much more) but I don't think that the time it took him to get there means anything, because he may have been there in 10 minutes it could have been an hour.

Where did 2 days for Ethan and 1 hour for Goodwin to travel come from anyway?

I'm pretty sure Benry gave those estimates when he sent them off to infiltrate...

No, if he did we would've seen him say that since we saw the whole conversation with them.

But they are making this up as they go along.

They were going to introduce a love story / quadrangle between Ana Lucia / Jack / Kate / Sawyer until it was met with disapproval and they decided against that.
Desmond and his situation in the Swan at the beginning of Season 2 are different at the end of Season 2. A change of storyline, an introduction of a new love tangle and inconsistencies were developed.
Fans were complaining about the lack of discussion or attempts to find a means to get off the island so that pathetic episode between Rose and Bernard is written where everyone drops out of the plan and Rose challenges him because - she was going to die before she got to the island...now she knows she's not.
The destruction of Locke and Eko as characters just so there's an argument about the button, conflict between the alpha males
That shortly after the sky turning violet, things falling from the sky, groudn shaking, incredible noises, Claire is found sitting on the beach and Charlie is cracking jokes.

When characters continually act in a certain manner which contradicts previous actions and is completely unrealistic with given situations, what is there left to care about ?

The island mysteries.

Well storylines are introduced and then dropped.
Jack has obviously been thinking about Dharma because he talks to Juliet about it in this episode. He figures out where he is ( and still opens the door ) and yet with everything that went on before - polar bears, Smokey, news of costumes in another bunker etc etc etc not once did he try to organise a reconnaissance trip on the island.

I've read in other threads how some fans don't want to watch discussions between the Losties about their situation, about their lives. Well i do because it would allow me to start thinking of them as realistic characters again.
I'd much prefer discussions to pathetic Charlie / Claire moments or yet another excuse to see Kate in a towel.
Now Evangeline Lilly is a stunningly beautiful woman but i'm not 12.

Like someone says above, maybe that's who the shows is being written for now.

You might want to read this, where Gregg Nations talks about Ben's orders to Goodwin/Ethan. Or, you may wish you hadn't. Up to you. Here it is:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=59324

Actually, "they" have said repeatedly that they know where they are going, but that the characters have a bit of organic control over the road it takes to get there. So, sorry, you and I will have to disagree about your "gripe."

I was also told there were wmd's in Iraq.

They are changing this story as they go along, sometimes because they have to, sometimes because market research tells them

Do you seriously believe Desmond's return was planned like that before Season 2 started ?

No, if he did we would've seen him say that since we saw the whole conversation with them.


We did see him say that... I'm sure about the 'hour" but I need to rewatch the episode again regarding the "2 days"... I'm sure there is someone else lurking about that can probably confirm that right away for you...

You might want to read this, where Gregg Nations talks about Ben's orders to Goodwin/Ethan. Or, you may wish you hadn't. Up to you. Here it is:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=59324

What have Gregg's comments about Ben's orders got to do with anything in my post you quoted ?

Do you seriously believe Desmond's return was planned like that before Season 2 started ?

I think Cuse and Lindelof have been very clear that they enlarged Desmond's role after seeing how good his character was (that's what I meant by organic plot development). They've never said that every single aspect was set in stone. Just the broad outline. Where is the problem here? Is some aspect of the show not satisfying you?
100%
What have Gregg's comments about Ben's orders got to do with anything in my above post ?

Simple, there was no mistake.

I think Cuse and Lindelof have been very clear that they enlarged Desmond's role after seeing how good his character was (that's what I meant by organic plot development). They've never said that every single aspect was set in stone. Just the broad outline. Where is the problem here? Is some aspect of the show not satisfying you?
100%


Simple, there was no mistake.

So i am correct in my assumption that they are making this up as they go along - they saw how good his character was, they saw the audience reaction and have written him back in with this yacht-round-the-world-story.

I realise everything was not set in stone ( e.g where they want to take us is probably 5 miles away but like a cab driver with a tourist in the back, they are trying to stretch it out to a 40 mile trip ) but why keep telling the viewers that they know where they're going...then ask actors to return for bigger parts, probably write in a love interest etc ? The ripple effect is huge because there are so many characters that have links, so many different storylines based on similar events.

They have written Desmond back in ( at the very least given his character much more depth ) and so it has had an effect on how he behaves at the beginning of season 2 to how he behaves at the end.
Season premiere - he is alone, he has been alone and has nowhere to go. He is afraid when Locke enters the hatch, he is afraid of " the sickness " and takes medicine with him. He is worried that it has all been a game, that he has been pressing the button for nothing.

Season finale - he appears relieved to hear life on the island when , he has a pretty good idea it's all been a game or that larger things are at work

My theory ?
They wrote him back into the show, gave him a love angst to make us care more and created the yacht story. However, in developing this story ( he, Kelvin, the map - which i think was an idea someone came up with after Season 2 started ) they have turned back on previous storylines or statements.

Lost should have been a 3 season classic. In the attempts to drag this out into 6 or 7 seasons they have turned it into a mess. Characters do not talk about important events for eons at a time because it would resolve issues before TPTB wanted them to be

The trick they are trying to accomplish now is how to introduce new flashbacks into life on the island, and having introduced the Tailies in season 2, we now have Otherville, filled with characters that probably have connections to our Losties. Connections that mean nothing and will never be spoken of.

but why keep telling the viewers that they know where they're going . . . ?

Probably because they do. But I'm just spitballing.

What have Gregg's comments about Ben's orders got to do with anything in my post you quoted ?

It doesn't. But it does have a lot to do with the subject of this thread which is to discuss the implications of Ben's orders and how it relates to Goodwin's interaction with the Tailies. There are other threads for inconsistencies, dissatisfaction with the show and other things on your list.

Yes, let's please get this thread back on topic. I don't want to see it get closed.

So Gregg's answer does confirm that Goodwin got the list done right away. Maybe even the first night. I could definitely see him passing it off to a partner, someone that could get reinforcements.

Since Gregg is such a great guy, maybe I'll try asking him about the distances from Other-ville to the crash sites. Well, there is this question already:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=59352

I'll ask a new one. Here it is:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1204451#post1204451

That shortly after the sky turning violet, things falling from the sky, groudn shaking, incredible noises, Claire is found sitting on the beach and Charlie is cracking jokes.
That really got to me, too.

It only underscores my fears that--even in these six intense eppys--they'll be throwing in funny scenes and luvleh romantic scenes that are TOTALLY not fitting (realistically) with the situations the lostaways find themselves in. They will be jarring. They will throw off my involvement with that night's storyline, and the story arc as a whole.

This is RIDICULOUS. Is there no one on the writing/production/direction team with the nerve to use common sense, and point out, "Hey, you know, given this dire situation they're in, would Claire and Charlie really be spending a lazy afternoon on the beach, playing with Aaron?"

I hope I'm wrong about this. But I'm really scared that I'm not.



Oh, and Holmes? I get where you're coming from. But I do need to correct one perception you have. In "MOS, MOF," in Jack's FB with Desmond in the stadium, Desmond tells him that he was in training for "a race around the world." And again, in "Orientation," when Jack demands that Desmond tell him his story, Desmond begins, "I was in a solo race around the world."

So the "yacht thing" was incorporated into Desmond's story from the get-go.

Personally, I believe that they intended to bring Desmond back--but as a recurring character. Ian Cusick's amazing performance, and us Desmond-fans equally amazing enthusiasm for the character, caused them to tweak that plan and make him a regular. But given the story line in the hatch in LTDA, I think Desmond was gonna show up at the end of last season, anyway. Might've been someone else's FBs, though. Or maybe not. And maybe Desmond would've died activating the failsafe. Maybe not. (There's prescedent: after all, TPTB had first planned to kill off Jack in the Pilot eppy; this, of course, did not happen!)

Just wanted to set the record straight. In part, to STRENGTHEN your argument, rather than have people shoot it down for a mistake here or there! Thanks for your input!

As things stand, I think TPTB's first instincts--ending the show after 4 seasons--is correct. By the end of this season, the Others' fifth column (led by Juliet and Jack) could break away from the main Others group and ally with the lostaways. Penny could show up--stranded herself--with more info on Dharma/Hanso/Widmore that can help them in Season 4. Season 4 would be the Lostaway/Renegade Other/Danielle forces versus the Ben-led Other/Outside Superiors forces, to stop whatever nefarious plans the latter has (and maybe even saving the world), and to get the heck off the Island! At the end, those who survive leave the Island, and the future (for them and the world) remains a question mark.

Anyone figure that TPTB and ABC don't see it the same way? :rolleyes:

Would someone please care to explain what your discussion has to do with the real topic of this thread? Back on topic, please!

The trick they are trying to accomplish now is how to introduce new flashbacks into life on the island, and having introduced the Tailies in season 2, we now have Otherville, filled with characters that probably have connections to our Losties. Connections that mean nothing and will never be spoken of.

Let's not forget though that the concept of the Others was introduced way back in Season 1 when it was established that Ethan was not on the plane's manifest. Locke reminded us of this on at least one occasion ("We're not the only people on this island and we all know it!"), and who could forget that chilling scene at the end of "Exodus", where we got our first glimpse of the Others doing what they seem to do best: kidnapping.;)

You're right though that they're finding ways to introduce new characters, but isn't that to be expected in a TV series of the Action/Adventure genre? I'd say they've come up with very clever ways of doing it----ways that furthered the plot and provided more interactions between the regular cast from Season 1 (ie. Ana killing Shannon, Locke vs. Eko, etc.)

As for them trying to stretch out what should have been a 3-year series, well, you may be right, but who's to say they only have 3-year's worth of material? From the interviews I've seen and read, I'm fairly certain that J.J. and Damon made sure they had enough ideas for characters and storylines before they agreed to write the pilot, otherwise they would not have seen the sense in starting such a show.

However, if they are stretching beyond what they originally planned, I think it's because TPTB are worried now that ABC won't end the series when they want it to end (ie. can anyone say X-Files?), and so they're trying to give ABC more episodes/seasons so that they, the writers/producers, will be the ones who decide when it is all over.

Personally, I say kudos to them for giving us more and more new content and new characters every week/season. If it were up to me, I'd want the show to go on for much longer than it probably will... even if that means getting what some are calling "filler" episodes. :rolleyes:

ETA: Starrox, I just saw your post now. Sorry, I was busy typing away for a while... :redface: ;)

Maybe Goodwin's list was really of all the inconsistencies of LOST! :24:

Seriously, Goodwin was much closer to Otherville than Ethan was. And the panic and uncertainty of 48 surviving passengers (it was 48 to begin with) probably had beach camp in more disarray than over at Tailie beach, with only 23 members. Ethan probably had his hands full remaining discreet AND still trying to get the names of the survivors. He probably DID make contact with his people within three days--to tell them he needed more time.

Then, he broke orders and "got more involved." First with Locke, whose hunting/scavenging partner he became. Then in collecting fruit to eat, which would gain the notice--and gratitude--of other lostaways. And then, he got smitten with the pregnant Claire. . .and we know what THAT led to! List? What list? I've brought you the woman I'm smitten with--and her BABY! You want the baby, right? And they found the manifest, and I wasn't on it, so I HAD to act fast!

Think you can fill in the blanks from here.

Goodwin was much better at his job than Ethan was. And if there was a set "plan of action" for new arrivals, then Goodwin, clearly a part of the Other Inner Circle, would know about it. And that it included a near-immediate seizure of the "strong ones," the potential threats. So he'd KNOW that some Others would show up that first night. Within the next couple of days, he probably "took a census" (a la Hurley, after the attack on Claire) of everyone there. Probably got the list to them before Ana invoked the "two persons to go to the bathroom" rule. From that list--of ALL the Tailies--The Others acquired files (a la Jack) and made the determination as to who was "good." Someone wrote up several lists of the lucky good ones and gave it to each of the "fetching party." This probably took most of the 11 days between the first night and the 12th, when They returned.

Really, not a great mystery here. Just The Others, following procedure for the given situation.

So :
Ethan is sent to the Losties who are farther away. He does his job but takes an interest in Claire that is probably not what Ben wanted at the time.
Goodwin is sent to the Tailies. It's a shorter journey and his list could have been made in a much shorter time.
a ) Did he make his list the first day and have it back in Otherville by nightfall ? Eko would have been a very obvious target even from day 1.
b ) Did a rogue faction sneak out of Otherville at night and attack the Tailies because someone is challenging Ben's leadership ?

The tail section was far enough into the ocean and there was enough taking place for Ana Lucia to be wrong about the 10 minutes before Goodwin walked out of the jungle. After all, she had just been in a plane crash.

I've also read on here that some people believe the Other-Others wear the scruffy clothes, the real Others don't. I think it's pretty obvious the scruffy clothes are worn so if they run into the Losties whilst walking around the island, the Losties are led to believe these people are living rough on the island. Walking around in smarter clothes would imply there is a base or some kind of community.

I am really in doubt about much of this topic. If Goodwin did report back early to ben and Ben's group came the first night to take the kids then why did we see the teddy bear being carried through the jungle several days later? Were they just marching the kids around for the fun of it?

Gregg answered my question about the time discrepancy. Looks like Ana just didn't make a correct estimate of 10 minutes.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1205987 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1205987#post1205987)

Aww, I lose. Thanks for asking, it's good to have an answer. :)