I have a feeling Jack is not really in the Hydra station, and that he is not under water--despite the flooding that occurred when the hatch was opened.

I think the water is just to keep him from trying to escape.

(1)
Watch that scene again, and note the reddish glow emminating from the open hatch; underwater should be dark.
Even if this glow is caused by perimeter lighting for security cameras, etc., the water would definitely not be flowing in from above, as it is here. It would be pushed in relatively uniformly from the high pressure, since it comes in directly from being in contact with the hatch.

Maybe just a production side-effect? If yes, then it's odd they didn't color the wall behind the rushing water to something more realistic, to make it harder to see the wall. As it was, it's white-ish, making it easy to see the water falling from above into this little chute leading to the door.



(2)
No bulkhead door would simply open without locks, alarms, etc., or be without any large warning labels, if it was the only thing keeping high pressure water out! Aren't there two doors for an isolation chamber, or other such precautions?

People serving on submarines: please jump in and help clarify whether this is true!

With how inconsicuous that hatch was, someone could be half sleeping and accidentally open it instead of the bathroom door, and then boy would they get a large flush:D

(3)
Also, is it not odd that Juliette would ask Jack to push the button, instead of pushing it herself? She has to yell over rushing water, clarify the statement when he didn't understand, etc. In an emergency, anyone in her place would have just pushed it without a moment's hesitation.

Since she took her time, maybe the danger was not as real as we are lead to believe?

But what about the Whale noises?

But: No way Jack and Juliet could have closed that door with the water rushing through like that.

Yeah...I don't know about how water flows but I thought the door they closed was a bit off, too.

Yeah, i was thinking the same thing, i thought the Hydra hatch could be inland, and the water was 'supplied' to Jack's holding area via the large pipes we see next to Sawyer's Skinner Cage - in order to reinforce the illusion they are creating to break Jack's will. Then again, i'm always wrong about this show...... :cool:

I can live with the suspension of disbelief, but that tank near Sawyer's cage is too convenient.

But there HAS to be an underwater station... power cord and all.

I didn' t get the impression they're underwate either and agree that closing a door that large would be more difficult. The holding tank seems to hold water, enough possibly to fill the tank or at least put on a pretty good flood. Having Jack believe they're underwater would add a sense of isolation and put limits on his thoughts of escape. Some people might even get claustrophobic.

The whale noises could easily be piped in -they seem to have a fairly sophisticated sound board.

I think Juliet asked Jack to push the button to divert him and give her the opportunity to punch him out.

I had the same thought!! I really don't think he is underwater, I think it was all a set up to make him trust Juliette, and also to make Jack think that trying to escape would be pretty much useless. I just don't trust anything the Others do! I also don't trust Juliette. Anyone agree that she is strikingly similar to Sarah?

Yes, I believe you guys are right. He is probably underground at the same station as kate and sawyer.
Juliette told jack he was right when he guessed that is was a large aquarium. BUT: there was no opening on the top that I could really see. SO, how do you get a shark into a tank of water when the only way to access that tank is by opening the door, you must have to flood the surrounding rooms, seal him off, and then drain the surrounding rooms. That is the reason for that flood gate.

Although, there was a big chain hoist type thing, so that could blow my theory right out of the water!!!:)

I think that the tank Jack is in is a Skinner box for aquatic life, just as Sawyer and Kate are in Skinner boxes for land life.

I mean, an intercom? In a water tank? With a button that says "Communicate"? Plus, the lack of a surface would give sea creatures the same feeling of being in a "cage" as land animals get from being in a real cage.

I suspect that part of Dharma was supposed to genetically alter humans to have increased intelligence / social cohesion. To do this they put animals such as dolphins and sharks as well as monkeys and polar bears in Skinner boxes and tested the genetic modifications that they made to them.

According to this theory, Jack is at the same station as Sawyer and Kate- the zoological station or "Hydra."

lol everyone was all excited about an underwater hatch. It'll be hilarious if there isn't one. I agree, I don't think jack is really underwater. I just wonder what the advantage is of making him think he is.

Having Jack believe they're underwater would add a sense of isolation and put limits on his thoughts of escape. Some people might even get claustrophobic.

The whale noises could easily be piped in -they seem to have a fairly sophisticated sound board.

I think Juliet asked Jack to push the button to divert him and give her the opportunity to punch him out.

Exactly. It would minimize Jack's efforts to escape. Good points from you all about the claustrophobia and demoralizing.

So if Juliet pushed the button to distract him, she might know they are not in any danger, since she can afford luxuries like the distraction.


As for other peoples' reply, I don't think the aquarium is as big of a deal. There could be any number of hatches/doors above that we can't see! They could seal very cleanly, to be watertight, and not appear with any obvious, protruding profile.

OR Imagine the following:

1. shark is in tank full of water (filled via pipes once door is closed).
2. Tank is drained
3. shark/dolphin remains on floor
4. chain and hoist raise shark onto table
5. do whatever with the shark, and the intercom is used by the "doctors" who are working on the animal, when the tank is drained (e.g., "bring ____ here quick!").

or maybe they even have the sharks/dolphins trained to swim into the harness, and then after the water is drained, they can lower it onto the table. Much easier, and it won't try to bite your head off:rolleyes:

The main factor for me is the lack of precautions on the hatch, which seems abnormal--though hopefully someone knows more about this.

ACTUALLY, notice how Juliet pulls Jack into that room? It was over some tall barrier. I think the bottom half of the hatch was already closed, and that's where most of the pressure would lay. So they just had to fold the top half shut.
Incidentally, with a real catastrophe, water would still take a while to get in, since the air would take a while to get out...

Thanks for bringing that up...I noticed that too and put it up but got no one to agree..so I thought I was wrong! Great catch! Now I'm definitely sure this was a hoax...and about the whale and dolphins sounds...obvious!

In this shot (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1163&pos=183), we see 3 pipes going into the building by Sawyer's cage.

In some interior scenes of Juliet's side of the room, you can see what looks like the same type pipes. In the video, I can see what looks like 3 in a row, just like in that shot.
This cap (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1163&pos=938) shows one of them. I couldn't find a cap showing all three of them.

eta: I think the interior scenes were filmed elsewhere, in the building they're renting. My guess is they deliberately put the 3 pipes in the interior set, then gave us that exterior perspective to tie the two together.

I am hopeful that Jack doesn't really believe he is underwater either, and is attempting escape through a long con of his own.

I am hopeful Jack is trying to play into this, and pretend he is breaking down so he can get the upper hand again and, as Sayid says "create an advantage".

But I doubt it. :(

Njc------------------------------

I have a feeling Jack is not really in the Hydra station, and that he is not under water--despite the flooding that occurred when the hatch was opened.

I think the water is just to keep him from trying to escape.

(1)
Watch that scene again, and note the reddish glow emminating from the open hatch; underwater should be dark.
Even if this glow is caused by perimeter lighting for security cameras, etc., the water would definitely not be flowing in from above, as it is here. It would be pushed in relatively uniformly from the high pressure, since it comes in directly from being in contact with the hatch.
...
As it was, it's white-ish, making it easy to see the water falling from above into this little chute leading to the door.

(2)
No bulkhead door would simply open without locks, alarms, etc., or be without any large warning labels, if it was the only thing keeping high pressure water out!

(3)
Also, is it not odd that Juliette would ask Jack to push the button, instead of pushing it herself? In an emergency, anyone in her place would have just pushed it without a moment's hesitation.

Since she took her time, maybe the danger was not as real as we are lead to believe?


I agree on all your points. I'm thinking that Benry knew she was ultimately safe, that's why he left her behind with Jack; he knew she could handle it, and he wanted Jack to think tht there truly was danger.

I still haven't decided why that cable was leading out to sea, but it doesn't make me automatically think that there's an underwater hatch. (The shark w/ its logo sort of makes me wonder about that, though, and so did the loss of Joanna.)
There may be a hatch underwater, but I don't believe that that is where Jack is now.

It makes sense that the Others are using the water as a psychological barrier to Jack. Make him feel isolated, and make him feel "right" when he asks if this is where he is. Juliet may not be answering his questions truthfully more than 10 % of the time!

Being that Jack is supposedly in an aquarium, it is possible that the aquarium borders the sea. It could have part of the facility on land, and the rest extending out into (or under) the water. I don't think the door Jack opened leads directly to the sea, more likely parts of the place have flooded due to deterioration.

Of course, the whole escape attempt seemed like a setup to me, so the water could very well have been pumped in to further the idea that escape is impossible. I definitely think that Benry knew Juliet was in no real danger, and only closed the door on her to give Jack something to 'fix'.

I agree on all your points. I'm thinking that Benry knew she was ultimately safe, that's why he left her behind with Jack; he knew she could handle it, and he wanted Jack to think tht there truly was danger.

Juliet may not be answering his questions truthfully more than 10 % of the time!

Lija, what do you think Juliet is lying about?

After watching that scene again, Juliete looks genuinly scared. Yes, someone like Juliet could maybe be only acting this impossibly well -- and, clearly, someone is actually acting this well :biggrin: -- but that seems too realistic of a reaction under the circumstances.

Maybe she really IS scared, but only because she doesn't know what Jack will do next? Not necessarily because of the water.

Well, I'm thinking about things like her agreeing when he asked if the place was underwater; perhaps she would've agreed to anything he said, just to let him think he was right. Jack loves to be right!
She's playing psychological games with him, trying to get him to trust her.

Sure, she says that Sarah is doing OK, but that could be a lie, too--Juliet may have no contact w/ Sarah at all.

That file folder she has could have mostly empty pages in it. She may not have the autopsy file.

What I'm saying is that, until we have proof that what Juliet says is true, I'm not willing to accept her words or her explanations at face value.
I just don't trust her, espc. considering her interaction with Ben at the end of the ep.

Maybe she really IS scared, but only because she doesn't know what Jack will do next?
That's a valid point; however, it seems to me that she is in complete control. She's obviously had training in psychology/psychiatry. I think she has a pretty good idea most of the time what Jack will do next--she's trying to manipulate him, IMO.

Well, I'm thinking about things like her agreeing when he asked if the place was underwater; perhaps she would've agreed to anything he said, just to let him think he was right. Jack loves to be right!
She's playing psychological games with him, trying to get him to trust her.

Sure, she says that Sarah is doing OK, but that could be a lie, too--Juliet may have no contact w/ Sarah at all.

That file folder she has could have mostly empty pages in it. She may not have the autopsy file.

What I'm saying is that, until we have proof that what Juliet says is true, I'm not willing to accept her words or her explanations at face value.
I just don't trust her, espc. considering her interaction with Ben at the end of the ep.

Exactly! What if Juliet had said 'No, Jack, in fact she was so miserable that she threw herself off of an overpass'? There would be no way for Jack to know whether or not it was true or not, he can't exactly call her up from the island to ask.

Heck, WE don't even know if what she told him was true. Since the plane crashed, any number of things could have happened to Sarah.

I don't buy her story that they are underwater, either. What purpose would the door that Jack opened serve? If they're underwater, they can't really use it as an escape hatch unless there was also wetsuits and oxygen tanks in the room, and not many sea animals would fit through that door. I was thinking that perhaps the hatch is next to an aquarium, and that the door opens up to the aquarium. They could use the hatch as a way of getting into the aquarium to check on whatever was in the aquarium.

Thanks!

Also, Juliet said, "If I open that door, we die," and...
obviously, they didn't.
100%
What purpose would the door that Jack opened serve?

Good question!

I've always thought there was an underwater hatch although my plausability on this was weird because remember the girl that boone thought he saw in the water that dissapeared and the darma shark. I think that the thing that jacks in is underwater by the sound of the waterpressure, but probably has a tunnel that goes to land. That's probably why they didn't want the losties sailing around - because they would be able to see the hatch or something and take Jack.