Welcome to the LOST Rewind, Episode 3x04 "Every Man For Himself"

Timestamp: Day 70, November 30, 2004

A Sawyer-centric episode - YEAH!

I'm having a hard time coming up with discussion topics. The episode was pretty harrowing - but straight forward. I'll do my best:

So, the title of this episode seems to be representative of Sawyer's credo in life.

Early on, he tells Kate of his plan for them to escape.


KATE: So, what about Jack?

SAWYER: What about him? We don't even know if he's here. Hell, we don't even know if he's alive. We've got to take care of us. It's every man for himself, Freckles.

When Sawyer's little escape plan does not work - Ben skillfully and violently beats him to a pulp and renders Sawyer unconscious. When Sawyer comes to, we have a scary little homage to Pulp Fiction. I'm a lot squeamish - and this episode gave me lots to be squeamish about!

Once again, Sawyer comes to - and we had the Bunny #8 scene. I don't know about you but those of us who follow Todell's Rebellious Rabbits Thread[/URL] in General Theories, well, we go BANANAS every time we see a bunny - so you can just imagine how we reacted to Bunny #8! (I had to be peeled off my ceiling.)

Ben explains that the bunny had a pacemaker and it's heart rate got to a certain point, that the pacemaker did it's thing and killed the bunny. Oh, yea, Sawyer - we put one of those suckers in you. If you tell Kate - we'll put one of those suckers in her.

Wow, Evil Ben is brilliant. I hate to admit that - but he is. He just eliminated the "Every man for himself" option for Sawyer.

To use Sawyer's own words to Munson from his flashback later in the episode:

MUNSON: You were right. I loved her. I thought she -- I really thought she...

SAWYER: 10 mil's a lot of greenbacks. Killer -- tends to change things. That's why you never get attached -- because once you care, that's when they can come at you.

Evil Ben - you really do find out what people care about and then exploit that! Evil! :mad:

I just have to say - Ben was particularly violent in this episode.

Sawyer's flashbacks takes us to the time of his incarceration. His every man for himself credo is at work there. In prison, Sawyer cons the con-man to regain his freedom. Sawyer will do whatever Sawyer needs to do to take care of Sawyer.

But, at the end of the flashback - Sawyer has his 'commission' put into an account for his unacknowledged daughter - Clementine.

What do you think this tells us about Sawyer? I can't help but think it is important to the underlying character of Sawyer.

Any thoughts on why Of Mice and Men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Mice_and_Men) seems to be very predominant in this episode?

That dialogue from Of Mice and Men at the end by Ben was great. Ouch!

Characters similar to George and Lennie have been popular since the publication of Of Mice and Men. Theatrical cartoon shorts of the 1940s and 1950s, particularly the Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies cartoons released by Warner Bros., are particularly awash with Of Mice and Men parodies

Interesting - Merrie Melodies was playing on the television when we first see Jack in this episode. Makes me think - everything is connected.

What are the similar themes of Lost and Of Mice & Men?
Study guide to Of Mice and Men (http://www.bellmore-merrick.k12.ny.us/mice2.html)

The blaring parallel for me:

The central, and biggest, moral issue of the book is confronted at this point of the book. Does George, or anyone else for that matter, have the right to kill Lennie,

We can look at many of our Losties in this aspect. Thoughts?

^Lots of great stuff to parallel to Lost in that Link. Do you see any?

More on the episode:

How great was Jack! Pulling the same stunt on Juliet that Ben pulled on Locke in Maternity Leave. Letting Juliet know that he wants to talk to Ben because Ben is the one who makes decisions. Juliet echoes Lockes response - 'We make decisions together.' Do they???

Jack is just begging to pick up the pace to become a leader again. How great was that ending scene with Juliet -

JACK: Who's x-rays are those? Outside? Those are spinal x-rays. They belong to a man about 40 years old. And whoever he is, he has a very large tumor on his L-4 vertebrae. And I just happen to be a spinal surgeon. So, you tell me, Juliet, who am I here to save?

This episode we also saw Desmond save Charlie for the first time.

Well, I'm stressing - so I hope you enjoy & discuss!

Happy Thanksgiving to All!

Hope your Thanksgiving is full of food, laughter and good times!

:1turkey:

i think this was one of the more straightforward episodes of lost, yet still very exciting.

Sawyer's flashbacks takes us to the time of his incarceration. His every man for himself credo is at work there. In prison, Sawyer cons the con-man to regain his freedom. Sawyer will do whatever Sawyer needs to do to take care of Sawyer.

But, at the end of the flashback - Sawyer has his 'commission' put into an account for his unacknowledged daughter - Clementine.
What do you think this tells us about Sawyer? I can't help but think it is important to the underlying character of Sawyer.


i agree punky, it seems that sawyer ( as has been said on the show ) wants to be hated and thought of as a bad guy - maybe because he thinks he's worthless himself after turning into the very thing he made it his life's goal to get revenge on.
but he obviously has a good side to him, there are things and people he cares about but he isnt comfortable with getting any recognition for it.
like when he got back to the beach and people started liking him he couldnt handle it so he had to do something to re-establish himself as the bad guy.
the increasing closeness between him and kate has finally given him something to care about and he cant run away from it. this must make him feel vulnerable.

the flashback was awesome. you can really appreciate how well it was done when you see it second time around, knowing that the warden was in on the scam.

but he obviously has a good side to him, there are things and people he cares about but he isnt comfortable with getting any recognition for it.
like when he got back to the beach and people started liking him he couldnt handle it so he had to do something to re-establish himself as the bad guy.

Yes! How'd I forget that! That spoke volumes about Sawyer.


the flashback was awesome. you can really appreciate how well it was done when you see it second time around, knowing that the warden was in on the scam.

You are right - when he dropped the apple for Sawyer to pick up the first time, I was livid! The second time, I chuckled.

I'm having a hard time coming up with discussion topics. The episode was pretty harrowing - but straight forward. I'll do my best:
I wrote the fewest notes yet on this epi – guess I found it pretty straight ahead too.
When Sawyer's little escape plan does not work - Ben skillfully and violently beats him to a pulp and renders Sawyer unconscious. When Sawyer comes to, we have a scary little homage to Pulp Fiction. I'm a lot squeamish - and this episode gave me lots to be squeamish about!
Dunno what the Others’ equivalent of the Naughty Step is – ‘cept it’ll be pretty unpleasant – but Ben has earned some time there; stomping on a guy’s face when he’s down… hardly Queensbury Rules is it?

But thinking of rules led me somehow to Ben’s stripy shirts …and the idea of him as the Banker; distributing the Game’s assets.

Once again, Sawyer comes to - and we had the Bunny #8 scene. I don't know about you but those of us who follow Todell's Rebellious Rabbits Thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21714&highlight=rebellious+rabbits%5b/URL%5d) in General Theories, well, we go BANANAS every time we see a bunny - so you can just imagine how we reacted to Bunny #8! (I had to be peeled off my ceiling.)
I frequently say ‘bunny’; but think ‘hare’ – because of their fertility connotations. Both appear in Alice… of course.

I just have to say - Ben was particularly violent in this episode.
Yes exercised restraint on the hike to view Alcatraz. Man that man can take a punch.

<SNIP>at the end of the flashback - Sawyer has his 'commission' put into an account for his unacknowledged daughter - Clementine.
Best thing I read in connection to Clementine, is that they’re seedless coughJincough.
Ugly Betty’s Bradford Meade was once subject to paternity testing ….just before a cut to a Diva’s demand for seedless grapes.

Any thoughts on why Of Mice and Men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Mice_and_Men) seems to be very predominant in this episode?
It’s a terrific book the writer’s would love to share?

That dialogue from Of Mice and Men at the end by Ben was great. Ouch!
*nods sorrowfully -* *- adds Ben to her Christmas list*

Quote:
Characters similar to George and Lennie have been popular since the publication of Of Mice and Men. Theatrical cartoon shorts of the 1940s and 1950s, particularly the Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies cartoons released by Warner Bros., are particularly awash with Of Mice and Men parodies

Interesting - Merrie Melodies was playing on the television when we first see Jack in this episode. Makes me think - everything is connected.
Go You! – I got hung up on the music and bird species. :biggrin:

What are the similar themes of Lost and Of Mice & Men?

The burden of responsibility, the pursuit of an unobtainable dream, the upsetting of a group dynamic when new blood is added to the mix, intolerance, persecution and the possibility of new opportunities born of tragedy; George’s story isn’t over.

The blaring parallel for me:
Quote:
The central, and biggest, moral issue of the book is confronted at this point of the book. Does George, or anyone else for that matter, have the right to kill Lennie,

We can look at many of our Losties in this aspect. Thoughts?
Lennie would have been caught and hung by the law if he was lucky – most likely he’d have been lynched or institutionalised.

Those of you who know me well may recall I’m missing a rock I had set aside for a special purpose - although intervention not termination was what I had in mind - spookily for me; my rock was inspired by George’s love for his friend. I brought it with me to the ‘lage when I joined in May 2006.

I’m done being obscure now :angel:
More on the episode:
JACK: Who's x-rays are those? Outside? Those are spinal x-rays. They belong to a man about 40 years old. And whoever he is, he has a very large tumor on his L-4 vertebrae. And I just happen to be a spinal surgeon. So, you tell me, Juliet, who am I here to save?
How’d he know it was a man - was Ben’s pelvis shown on the film?
This episode we also saw Desmond save Charlie for the first time.
Notes time – meagre as they are:

He was right about that roof; unless the intent is to catch rainwater, those tarp roofs would be better pitched. But well done the beach larder designer; that tiered shelving Bernie and Rose were stacking in # S.O.S. was a lovely job.

Who was it put ‘Broken Nose…’ and ‘…Pickett’ in the same conversation? :D

Kate: as good as denies she loves James, acts in defiance of his best wishes for her, and then tops that off by quoting Jack. Nice.

and Heavens to Murgatroyd! I think I spotted a Wizard of Oz reference. Someone’s a cowardly liar, oh my! That or Grape Ape fan Sawyer quotes Snagglepuss too.

ß- is taking a nostalgic trip down Laff-A-Lympic Lane …and coming up with a Yellow colour theory for The Sewing Kit.

OK - I lost this the first time around! ARGH!


Best thing I read in connection to Clementine, is that they’re seedless coughJincough.

I like it! I can't tell you how many times I've read that "Oh My Darling" poem - LOL! Seedless. Perfect. I'll go with that.



Go You! – I got hung up on the music and bird species. :biggrin:.

I did that as well.:biggrin:


The burden of responsibility, the pursuit of an unobtainable dream, the upsetting of a group dynamic when new blood is added to the mix, intolerance, persecution and the possibility of new opportunities born of tragedy; George’s story isn’t over.

Well put & you could say the same thing on the Island.

After the episode first aired I was with a number of people who thought Cassidy might be conning Sawyer about the existence of the baby. She could have borrowed her niece's picture or anyone's, really. To make it really work, she would have been in on with with the warden and the Feds, knowing that a big payoff for Sawyer could be coming. (Who knows if she got any of her $600,000 back after turning him in.)

But Left Behind confirmed for us that she really was pregnant with Sawyer's child.
And when Sawyer said no one was to know who set up the money for Clementine, how could Cassidy not know it was him who did it? Who else would it be?

But Left Behind confirmed for us that she really was pregnant with Sawyer's child.
And when Sawyer said no one was to know who set up the money for Clementine, how could Cassidy not know it was him who did it? Who else would it be?

Why would Cassidy think that Sawyer would set up a million dollar trust fund for a daughter he denied and wanted nothing to do with. He would be the last person I would think would do that, if I were Cassidy. He's a bad guy, who ruined my life, but he's the first person she would think of?

Why would Cassidy think that Sawyer would set up a million dollar trust fund for a daughter he denied and wanted nothing to do with. He would be the last person I would think would do that, if I were Cassidy. He's a bad guy, who ruined my life, but he's the first person she would think of?


I think mom's point is, who ELSE could it be? Soon after she tells him she's had his baby and he denies it's his, there's suddenly a trust fund set up with a load of cash in it? I suppose she could have other family that might have done it but they probably wouldn't keep it a secret. And, if Cassidy is like most other women who are attracted to men who, sometimes, don't treat them very nice, she'll always have that hope that maybe he's "come around" or he's "changed". I think if these women didn't have that kind of hope, they wouldn't keep hanging on.

I think mom's point is, who ELSE could it be? Soon after she tells him she's had his baby and he denies it's his, there's suddenly a trust fund set up with a load of cash in it? I suppose she could have other family that might have done it but they probably wouldn't keep it a secret. And, if Cassidy is like most other women who are attracted to men who, sometimes, don't treat them very nice, she'll always have that hope that maybe he's "come around" or he's "changed". I think if these women didn't have that kind of hope, they wouldn't keep hanging on.

Oh sorry. Who ELSE could it be? I don't know if Cassidy even knows there is a trust fund, its not for her, but my only point was I don't think Cassidy would think it would be Sawyer. If she's made aware of the trust fund.

After the episode first aired I was with a number of people who thought Cassidy might be conning Sawyer about the existence of the baby.

I was one of them. The pupil besting the Master sits well with my sense of humour.

To make it really work, she would have been in on with with the warden and the Feds, knowing that a big payoff for Sawyer could be coming.

Feds? after the Guvnor introduced one as a 'freed man' I thought he might be an ex-con himself, part of some previous deal paying his dues in conning Sawyer.

But Left Behind confirmed for us that she really was pregnant with Sawyer's child.

I'm going to have to watch that again...:biggrin: when the Rewind resumes.

And when Sawyer said no one was to know who set up the money for Clementine, how could Cassidy not know it was him who did it? Who else would it be?

Who else might she be scamming? Sun swore to Jin there was no one else. ;)

I'm going to have to watch that again...:biggrin: when the Rewind resumes.

Speaking of the Rewind, are the rewinds for 310, 311, and 312 just going to be put up after the break?

Watching it over again, the scene with the rabbit was pretty funny. The first time I watched it, it was creepy, but now that I know it's all hoax, it's pretty funny. I imagine Ben and Tom discussing it in the hallway before going in to meet Sawyer.

I also wonder why Ben beat Sawyer personally. He could have sent Tom or Pickett to do it.

My mom watched this episode for the first time yesterday, and when they took Sawyer and gave him that shot, she thought that they were gonna take his kidney to give it to Colleen.

Watching it over again, the scene with the rabbit was pretty funny.
And you know what they say little boys who torture animals grow up to become.

About why "Of Mice and Men" is referenced so heavily:

First look at the quote from which the title comes: The best laid plans of Mice and Men go oft awry. Applies to Sawyer and to Ben very nicely. The two con men who can't quite make their plans work the way in which they intended.

What brings the tragedy to George and Lennie? Caring about people (or animals, in Lennie's case.) Lennie hurts or kills everything he tries to love, with no intent to do so. George ends up killing the person he loves in order to protect him.

Sawyer feels this way about himself to some degree--that he will hurt whomever he cares for- and most certainly that caring about anyone opens him up to pain and disaster and manipulation. Something I'd argue Ben also feels, since he keeps his emotional distance from everyone, even his own daughter.

And what is Ben doing? Exploiting the same thing. Using Sawyer's affection for Kate to manipulate him.

The book is interesting to them both because it is in some ways an illustration of their own personal stories.

I don't think we have to go too deeply into Of Mice and Men to find the parallels.

I had forgotten that Jack baited Juliet about her relationship with Ben in exactly the same way that Ben had baited John...

JACK: Should I talk to Benjamin?

JULIET: Sorry?

JACK: Should I talk to Benjamin? Because I'm starting to think that you're just the person who brings me my food.

JULIET: You can talk to him all you want, but he won't tell you anything.

JACK: You work for him?

JULIET: No, I don't work for him.

JACK: He's in charge.

JULIET: Well, it doesn't work that way over here, Jack. We make decisions together.

JACK: Really? Because when I was holding that broken plate at your neck he seemed happy to just let you die. I mean, it felt like he made that decision on his own.

JULIET: You don't know what you're talking about. I don't answer to him.And from Maternity Leave...

LOCKE: You read Hemingway?

BEN: Sure, guy ran with the bulls, fought in the Spanish Civil War, stuff I can wrap my brain around. This (holding up the Dostoyevsky novel), I can't get through five pages of.

LOCKE: Well, Dostoyevsky had his virtues, too. He was a genius, for one. Bullfighting isn't everything.

BEN: So which one are you?

LOCKE: I'm sorry.

BEN: Are you the genius, or are you the one who always feels like he's living in the shadow of a genius?

LOCKE: I was...I was never very much into literary analysis.

BEN: I just don't understand why you let the doctor call the shots.

LOCKE: No one calls the shots. Jack and I make decisions together.

BEN: Right, Okay...my mistake.I still think that Juliet has maintained her allegiance to Ben, even during her assimilation with the lostaways. Ben, despite his apparent manipulation by the MiB in this season's finale, always has a plan ;). And just as Juliet and Ben may ultimately end up on the same page, I'm guessing that Jack and Locke will, too.

So the parallel in Sawyer's prison flashback is between Ben and the warden, right? Ben, preparing to reveal his con to Sawyer, told him, "Let's go for a walk". Then, after a whoosh, we saw Sawyer being escorted by guards to his meeting with the warden. Since Sawyer and the warden were perpetrating their con on an unsuspecting victim, is it possible that Ben may be involved in a long con of his own, using Sawyer and the rest of the lostaways to pull the rug out from under the MiB? A bit of a stretch, I know, but it's a long hiatus.

Why was Ben working so hard to hook Kate up with Sawyer? Was it only part of the set-up to convince Jack to operate on his tumor, or might there be other reasons that will become more apparent during season 6?