Say I'm the protectorate of a the world's best kept secret. In this case an island that can cure cancer and even make guns not shoot thousands of miles away (great Iraq quick fix).

I need somebody to keep a highly funded team of mercenaries away from my magical island.

Against this team of experts, hired guns, and professionals I send a suicidal failed artist from New York who is a proven traitor- ignoring my own stable of highly trained operatives with unquestionable loyalty.

I tell the guy to blow up the boat. Staking the success infiltration/sabogtage operation, I send him an elaborate bomb with moving parts in a wooden case with a padlock from 7-11 on it and tons of 'fake' C4. So when he finally resolves himself to blow the ship up- get this- The bomb is fake!!!!! No seriously, dude! Seriously there's a little flag that *hahahahha* a little flag pops up that says *hahahaha* "Not Yet". HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Oh my god can you believe the look on his face?


Unless Ben has absolutely nothing to fear from Whittmore, this "fake bomb to prove my humanity to the suicidal traitorous murdurer" thing is just, well, hella dumb. He risked everything for a joke?

Why? Seriously, why include this? WTF are you guys doing in Hawaii anyway?
100%
Oh, and I'm such a sneaky crafty manipulator I'll tell you my entire plan over their radio in plain English. There's no chance in hell that the Whitmore communications people record communications to and from the boat. Why would they bother, there's not really much at stake?

So the company I order my pizzas from records all communications, and monitors them but Whitmore's people suck so bad that they just let "Kevin" and "Walt" have their privacy? Ben is an idiot for thinking so.

He HAS to be trying to sell Michael up the creek. Otherwise the well established mastermind character that is Benjamen Linus has officially been run into the rocks.

There must be some Dharma volcano spewing marijuana smoke into the atmosphere somewhere on the Island, because frankly everyone seems to be high this season. Seriously- everyone is an idiot now.

I agree with all of your points... the show lost in quality over the last 2 seasons.

LOL!! The BEST commentary I've read on this season so far!

Widmore might know who's working with Ben. Ben knows who's working with Widmore. Is it really such a stretch to think that Ben, finally having an unknown accomplice, would want that person to infiltrate the enemy's freighter?

And is it such a stretch that Ben was trying to strengthen Michael's resolve with the fake bomb? Or that maybe, just maybe, an explosion would be too big of a show of intentional sabotage on Ben's part? That perhaps a more subtle means of TARGETED destruction would be a much better tactic?

I can't stand it when I see people say the show's quality's going down, because it's not. The only thing that's happening is that we're getting answers. Would you prefer them leaving the questions to never be answered?

And the answers? Brilliant. Season One? Great. Season Two? Better. Season Three? Better still (minus one painful episode--Stranger in a Strange Land). Season Four? Masterful.

lol unique outlook on it, would agree its quite funny. but cmon ben not know what hes doin? thats like Buddha loosing his cool. michael was probably sent there for some reason maybe to attract walt back to the island or something along those lines. but without a doubt Ben does know what hes doing

I have to admit, I initially thought that the writers were on crack for pulling the "not yet" thing. But then I thought about how Ben is as a character and it's exactly the kind of sick, twisted thing he's known for. I'm not sure why he does these things and what he really wants from Michael, but I'm still having fun waiting for it all to unfold.

The only thing that's annoyed me about this season so far is the lack of Smokie. I mean, everyone seems to be able to come and go through the island and NO ONE has encountered even the slightest threat of Smokie! It's just stupid. The monster was everything in Season 1 and has been at least a semi threat in season 2 & 3. What - is Smokie on vacation or something? lol

The communications thing... I thought was odd for the reasons you mentioned but I'd figure that Minkowski wasn't informed of the greater plans of Widmore-- as seen by how little Michael was told perhaps. Ben was testing Michael with the bomb to see if he was willing to die for the cause and if he hadn't been, he probably wouldn't have informed him of the rest of the plan. That was my take anyway.

hilarious post sevn23!

imo this was an attempt to wrap up the Michael saga. i would have been satisfied with seeing the same storyline(walt and Michael made it home) but with Michael successfully killing himself.

michael is the very last person i would put in charge of this "mission." hope ben knows better than i do.

hahaha, funny post sevn23


Buuut... everything makes perfect sense if Ben is Widmore's inside man of the Others, and the 2 are working together to exploit the island / forever seal it off from humanity

Well if Ben has something else going on that makes these two massive tumors in the story make sense I'm a happy man.

I really don't wanna hate- I f'ing love this show. It breaks my heart to see what they have done this season- especially after a damned year of anticipation. I am holding out that stuff sucks so bad largely due to the strike. Lost was a GREAT show, and while it's not totally horrible now, it would never have hooked me the way it's usually written/directed/acted these days.

Part of me also suspects that most of Bad Robot's real talent were working on Cloverfield, and the scrubs were handed the reigns to the best network TV series since the Twilight Zone.

It is simply disrespectful to make depict characters like Lock and Ben as so inept.

The way I see it, Locke has ALWAYS been inept and extremely easy to rattle, and Ben is watching his masterpiece unfold. Just because you don't see "Why" now doesn't mean that there's not a perfectly solid reason to be revealed later, if it's not already the reasons I've mentioned.

He HAS to be trying to sell Michael up the creek. Otherwise the well established mastermind character that is Benjamen Linus has officially been run into the rocks.
Or he never was a mastermind.

"There are innocent people on that boat".... "Get me a list of all the people on that boat".

Eh?

Keep in mind the bomb was a 'NOT YET' bomb, not a 'FAKE' bomb...MiKevin might well have activated a real bomb that will go off later.:cool:

I agree with a lot of what you said. A lot of stuff this season seems rushed and incomplete. We haven't seen some of the characters at all this season.

I think that the bomb was a test from Ben for Michael. He wanted to see if Michael would actually go through with setting off the bomb. Once he did, Ben knew he could trust him and that he would be able to kill.

This is perfectly in character for Ben. We're talking about a guy who went to extroadinary lengths to not only convince Jack to perform his surgery, but for him to want to do it.

You had me at "hella dumb" :rolleyes:

You lost me at "hella." ;)

But who else is Ben going to put on that freighter? If it's not Michael, it has to be an Other in order to keep people away from the island. The Others are mostly island-bound, if for no other reason than for Ben to keep them under his thumb. As Tom said, only a few can come and go. Why? We don't really know yet.

For all we know, other than Juliet, no one else from the mainland has been recruited to the island since the Dharma Initiative. Is Ben really going to allow mercenaries to come on board? What happens when they find out they're not allowed to leave?

So if not Michael, who?
100%
Also, other than Eggtown and the Jin flashback, I think this has been a heck of a season. Hurley's, Sayid's and the Freighter Folk's episodes were especially good. Desmond's was excellent!

My take on the bomb was that the Others had rigged it so that IF it didn't explode, the 'not yet' flag would pop up. It was 'the island' that determined whether it was time for the bomb to work or not, not Ben. And Ben needed to flag (sorry) this to Michael: if it didn't go off, Ben had to make Michael aware that the bomb wasn't a dud, it just wasn't the right time according to whoever's pulling the strings (the island, Jacob, whoever).

My take on the bomb was that the Others had rigged it so that IF it didn't explode, the 'not yet' flag would pop up. It was 'the island' that determined whether it was time for the bomb to work or not, not Ben. And Ben needed to flag (sorry) this to Michael: if it didn't go off, Ben had to make Michael aware that the bomb wasn't a dud, it just wasn't the right time according to whoever's pulling the strings (the island, Jacob, whoever).
I can't believe I hadn't thought of that! You're absolutely right... and Ben wanted names immediately after hearing from Michael that the "not yet" flag popped up. Ben must always play those games with his god figure (the island/Jacob) and because of that flag, he knew that there were "innocent" people aboard the ship.

Golly how Ben loves those lists! ;)

[snip] and because of that flag, he knew that there were "innocent" people aboard the ship.

I hadn't made that connection, but it makes a LOT of sense...:cool:

But who else is Ben going to put on that freighter? If it's not Michael, it has to be an Other in order to keep people away from the island. The Others are mostly island-bound, if for no other reason than for Ben to keep them under his thumb. As Tom said, only a few can come and go. Why? We don't really know yet.

For all we know, other than Juliet, no one else from the mainland has been recruited to the island since the Dharma Initiative. Is Ben really going to allow mercenaries to come on board? What happens when they find out they're not allowed to leave?

So if not Michael, who?There are a ton of Others we know nothing about. They introduce new ones all the time (Harper, for example). If they can come up with a fake ID for Michael, they could have just as easily set one up for one of their people.

Ben said very few of his people have been on the island all their lives. So they must have come from somewhere...

Anyway, I completely agree with the OP. Excellent post!

It is simply disrespectful to make depict characters like Lock and Ben as so inept.

Disrespectful? First, remember that they are characters in a story.

It is the defining part of the Locke character, shown through his flashbacks, that he is looking for something to be a part of and that he is quite gullible when choosing what to be a part of. So the big question for the Locke character is: Has he once again attached himself to a loser? By that, I am asking if Locke attached himself to an island that is benign or one that is evil? He also can be viewed as a prophet who is struggling with his faith. Is he being mislead? Does he understand his "faith"? What actions should he take when he is not being told explicitly what to do?

Ben has been shown to be quite crafty with the exception of, well, interacting with members of the opposite sex. It is hard to rate as unsuccessful the actions of a fellow as crafty as Ben when we don't know what he is really trying to accomplish. Ben seems to be three or four steps ahead of everyone else, including the viewers, and only when we see the outcome will be able to determine how effective he was. When we were introduced to Ben, he was captured by Danielle and taken to the hatch. The end result was that he sowed doubt in the mind of Locke as to the importance of pressing the button in the hatch. Do you think Ben's real mission was to recruit Locke as he stated, or do you think he accomplished his real mission of having the Losties discontinue the button pressing? Ben's ahead of the game, and sometime in the next 40 episodes we'll learn just how far ahead he is.

This is perfectly in character for Ben. We're talking about a guy who went to extroadinary lengths to not only convince Jack to perform his surgery, but for him to want to do it.

That scene came to my mind when I saw Ben mildly amused when he learned Michael had already tried to detonate the bomb. But, I still wonder what Ben's real angle is on the Michael plant. It seems that the ship has been disabled. Now what?

Widmore might know who's working with Ben. Ben knows who's working with Widmore. Is it really such a stretch to think that Ben, finally having an unknown accomplice, would want that person to infiltrate the enemy's freighter?

And is it such a stretch that Ben was trying to strengthen Michael's resolve with the fake bomb? Or that maybe, just maybe, an explosion would be too big of a show of intentional sabotage on Ben's part? That perhaps a more subtle means of TARGETED destruction would be a much better tactic?

I can't stand it when I see people say the show's quality's going down, because it's not. The only thing that's happening is that we're getting answers. Would you prefer them leaving the questions to never be answered?

And the answers? Brilliant. Season One? Great. Season Two? Better. Season Three? Better still (minus one painful episode--Stranger in a Strange Land). Season Four? Masterful.

Who's on first?

i just saw it as a test for Michael, that's all

I agree with Colonel Corn. When Ben decides use the bomb, all he has to do is give Michael a different code.

The code which Michael used, causing the flag to pop up, was not to engage the bomb. It did what that code wanted it to do,...tell Michael "Not yet."

Now, Ben can trust that Michael will use the bomb to kill. It was a test. Michael passed.

First off, amusing post...gave me a giggle.

To me, Michael is the only choice to make sense. They have obviously been keeping tabs on him and know exactly where to find him. That means that they know that he is a man consumed with guilt, his son hates him, he is living as another person in a hellhole. He is a man with nothing to lose, so the offer of possibly getting redemption and maybe then he will be able to off himself has to be pretty appealing to him. They chose Michael because he is the only person with nothing left to lose.

I think the fake bomb was used to get Michael on board. He'd be more likely to carry out the mission if he could get it over with quickly. If Michael had been told he was going to have to sabotage the ship slowly and potentially murder certain people he'd not be as likely to do it. The fake bomb got him on the freighter, and at that point he was committed.

I think that what Ben has done makes perfect sense if you try to think a couple of moves ahead, like Ben does.

As to the question of why use Michael when Ben could easily put a more trusted operative on the boat, I'd ask, wouldn't there be a special advantage if he did both at once?

Think about it... Gault might just expect a spy, and this will become certainty when the sabotage begins. The spy will have a very limited life expectency once things start breaking all over the place, so why not put Michael aboard as a "sacrificial lamb," while the real spy stays hidden, for when he's actually needed? Also, Tom didn't expect Michael to come around so quickly and that boat was going to sail with or without him. Ben had to have another spy available. Both are now on board.

The open talk on the radio between Michael and Ben might actually be a step toward revealing Michael to Gault, so that they'd think they'd located their spy, and rest easier. At least they'd spend all their efforts watching Michael while Real Spy was left to do as he wished... Remember that Gault didn't appear the least bit surprised when Sayid exposed Michael's espionage to him. Ben's revealing that he had a man on the boat in front of Charlotte also makes much more sense in this context, as Ben could surely have tossed out some other tantalizing info to Locke to keep him from shooting Ben. The reveal of the spy would certainly get back to the boat, but it just wasn't all that important because Michael is there as a decoy, and Gault likely already knew about him.

I'm suspecting that Gault was waiting for Michael to do... something... before he actually nabbed him, and that Sayid somehow interrupterd it with his premature reveal, as Gault not only didn't look surprised, he actually looked a little annoyed with Sayid...

The only thing that Ben would have to actually put over on Gault would be to smuggle the bomb (fake?) aboard, and they might not have expected a suicide attack on their vessel and so didn't check the baggage as an airline would. Michael passed his first test by activating the thing, and then Ben proceeded to check Michael's reliability by telling him to do a task that the Real Spy has already accomplished; compiling a list of the people aboard. With this, Ben could check on whether he could actually trust Michael, in the event that something happened to the real spy...

(Like maybe, his body happened to wash up on the island?)

Say I'm the protectorate of a the world's best kept secret. In this case an island that can cure cancer and even make guns not shoot thousands of miles away (great Iraq quick fix).

I need somebody to keep a highly funded team of mercenaries away from my magical island.

Against this team of experts, hired guns, and professionals I send a suicidal failed artist from New York who is a proven traitor- ignoring my own stable of highly trained operatives with unquestionable loyalty.

I tell the guy to blow up the boat. Staking the success infiltration/sabogtage operation, I send him an elaborate bomb with moving parts in a wooden case with a padlock from 7-11 on it and tons of 'fake' C4. So when he finally resolves himself to blow the ship up- get this- The bomb is fake!!!!! No seriously, dude! Seriously there's a little flag that *hahahahha* a little flag pops up that says *hahahaha* "Not Yet". HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Oh my god can you believe the look on his face?


Unless Ben has absolutely nothing to fear from Whittmore, this "fake bomb to prove my humanity to the suicidal traitorous murdurer" thing is just, well, hella dumb. He risked everything for a joke?

Why? Seriously, why include this? WTF are you guys doing in Hawaii anyway?
100%
Oh, and I'm such a sneaky crafty manipulator I'll tell you my entire plan over their radio in plain English. There's no chance in hell that the Whitmore communications people record communications to and from the boat. Why would they bother, there's not really much at stake?

So the company I order my pizzas from records all communications, and monitors them but Whitmore's people suck so bad that they just let "Kevin" and "Walt" have their privacy? Ben is an idiot for thinking so.
Excellent presentation of stuff-that-makes-no-sense, but...

He HAS to be trying to sell Michael up the creek. Otherwise the well established mastermind character that is Benjamen Linus has officially been run into the rocks.

There must be some Dharma volcano spewing marijuana smoke into the atmosphere somewhere on the Island, because frankly everyone seems to be high this season. Seriously- everyone is an idiot now.
...wrong conclusion. What it all points to is that the writers know exactly what they're doing, and that the characters' statements are lies and actions are insincere. That is, it's all a sham.

Robert

Say I'm the protectorate of a the world's best kept secret. In this case an island that can cure cancer and even make guns not shoot thousands of miles away (great Iraq quick fix).

I need somebody to keep a highly funded team of mercenaries away from my magical island.

Against this team of experts, hired guns, and professionals I send a suicidal failed artist from New York who is a proven traitor- ignoring my own stable of highly trained operatives with unquestionable loyalty.

I tell the guy to blow up the boat. Staking the success infiltration/sabogtage operation, I send him an elaborate bomb with moving parts in a wooden case with a padlock from 7-11 on it and tons of 'fake' C4. So when he finally resolves himself to blow the ship up- get this- The bomb is fake!!!!! No seriously, dude! Seriously there's a little flag that *hahahahha* a little flag pops up that says *hahahaha* "Not Yet". HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Oh my god can you believe the look on his face?


Unless Ben has absolutely nothing to fear from Whittmore, this "fake bomb to prove my humanity to the suicidal traitorous murdurer" thing is just, well, hella dumb. He risked everything for a joke?

Why? Seriously, why include this? WTF are you guys doing in Hawaii anyway?
100%
Oh, and I'm such a sneaky crafty manipulator I'll tell you my entire plan over their radio in plain English. There's no chance in hell that the Whitmore communications people record communications to and from the boat. Why would they bother, there's not really much at stake?

So the company I order my pizzas from records all communications, and monitors them but Whitmore's people suck so bad that they just let "Kevin" and "Walt" have their privacy? Ben is an idiot for thinking so.

He HAS to be trying to sell Michael up the creek. Otherwise the well established mastermind character that is Benjamen Linus has officially been run into the rocks.

There must be some Dharma volcano spewing marijuana smoke into the atmosphere somewhere on the Island, because frankly everyone seems to be high this season. Seriously- everyone is an idiot now.

This all makes perfect sense because there is no way that that was a test by Ben, who has never really proven himself to be forward thinking in his machinations against other people, both friends and enemies. I highly doubt Ben had the foresight to question whether or not Michael actually was his man, and there's NO way Ben would go through setting up something so extreme to see if Michael is willing to kill himself at his word. Ben would DEFINITELY not put some kind of transceiver in a fake bomb, and have it send a signal back to the island showing that Michael would indeed do as Ben asked.

I agree wholeheartedly. This whole having to think for myself to fill in blanks that would make for boring screentime if it were laid out garbage is for the birds. Anyone know any good spoonfeeding TV show I can start following? Thinkin's hard.

Lost still is a great show-
Keyser: 'buddah losing his cool' too funny!

I still think Ben seemed surprised that Micheal actually activated the bomb, and possibly that the boat still existed if he had entered the code. Ben had a thoughtful pause for a moment then launched into the "there's innocents on the ship, I never kill innocents" speech. I think there might have been Island/Jacob intervention there and Ben recognizes it.

As for why send Micheal? Another possibility is that the freighties might already have files and photos for each of Ben's group of others. Frank recognized Juliet's name from the list he memorized right? So an extremely guilt-ridden, highly motivated (save his fellow castaways he betrayed), nothing to lose kind of anonymous person makes good sense.

I agree with a lot of what you said. A lot of stuff this season seems rushed and incomplete. We haven't seen some of the characters at all this season. .

Hello? Writer's Strike. Means instead of the usual 24 or so episodes theyre cutting like 11-12. This means moving forward with the storyline in half the time.

Hello? Writer's Strike. Means instead of the usual 24 or so episodes theyre cutting like 11-12. This means moving forward with the storyline in half the time.

Actually no. The planned number of episodes for this season was 16, and we are getting 14. All the writer's strike did was cut off two episodes. They even said before hand that they didn't write the last of the first half with the strike in mind. They didn't want to compromise the story. I've also read that they describe the first half is the set up, and the second half is the payoff. So for anyone who is currently displeased with this season, chances are good that you will enjoy the second part more.

The TC has missed the obvious reason for Ben bringing Michael back into the fold, and why everything he/she tried to frame as illogical makes perfect sense.

Michael has a destiny on the Island. He crashed there, along with the other 815ers, for a reason. Tom couldn't have been more explicit in describing this. That is why the Island will not let Michael die until he has finished his work. It's not a simple matter of putting the best qualified person on the boat, it's the matter of putting the RIGHT person on the boat. The right person is Michael-- why, we don't know yet, but Ben is always a step ahead.

The only thing that's annoyed me about this season so far is the lack of Smokie. I mean, everyone seems to be able to come and go through the island and NO ONE has encountered even the slightest threat of Smokie! It's just stupid. The monster was everything in Season 1 and has been at least a semi threat in season 2 & 3. What - is Smokie on vacation or something? lol

Is it me or has Smokie dissapeared about the same time that Ben was captured???

Food for thought....

so Ben's 'smoke and mirrors' may be taken literally?

Is it me or has Smokie dissapeared about the same time that Ben was captured???

Food for thought....

I think it's just you. We haven't seen Smokey since Left Behind, which is Episode 15 of Season 3. Ben was captured in Through The Looking Glass which was Episode 23. According to Lostpedia that's like 10 days before Ben was captured that Smokey made his last appearance.

It's possible that Smokey comes out when there are new arrivals and munches on the munch-worthy and then leaves the rest alone. Or, he may be most likely to patrol certain areas of the island that Our Heroes haven't visited lately. Or, certain happenings, like maybe a purple sky event, may weaken him, limiting just how much he can get out and wander. Or maybe he's just set off so many smoke alarms lately that he sits home, depressed...:biggrin: Or...

The point is, there are so many things we don't know about the smoke cloud that there may be completely plausible reasons why we haven't seen him for a while.

perhaps he has taken care of all the business he needed to do- and the way ben acted like he had no idea what locke was talking about when confronted about the smoke- he has told JL allot, why lie about that?

on another note: i still think there is something 'mechanical' about smoky-
i just keep thinking back to the episode (not sure which) when locke was being pulled into the hole, that sound smoky was making, sounded like a roller coaster climbing a hill or something-