Does anyone else suspect that Ben, not Widmore, is responible for Nadia's death?

yep- sure do. ben's little smirk/smile after talking with sayid screamed "I've got him in the palm of my hand, just like I know I would".

well, me, my husband and all 4 of my lost-watching work peeps are with you too.

we haven't seen any possible reason that anyone would want nadia dead, with the exception of ben. that's not to say that we won't at some point, but for now, ben seems like the only guy with anything to gain from this.

Does anyone else suspect that Ben, not Widmore, is responible for Nadia's death?

Same here.

This is the same guy who allowed his "daughter" to be executed so I wouldn't be too surprised.

I hadn't thought of that. I assumed that Ben was just taking advantage of what happened to Nadia to use Sayid and that's why he had that smirk. But now that I think about it is quite possible that Ben is behind Nadia's murder.

In the Economist, when Sayid returns wounded to Ben, Ben, rather cruelly, reminds Sayid that his (Sayid's) ability to love and the pain of loss is what allied him with Ben. I just see it as SO in character with Ben to manufacture this "connection" of a shared enemy in order exploit Sayid's talents as a warrior.

Yup
just another trick by Ben to get Sayid to do his bidding
the smirk at the end gave it all away

Does anyone else suspect that Ben, not Widmore, is responible for Nadia's death?

I'm pretty sure that everyone who thought Ben killed Alex and Danielle and that the freighties were bringing roses and champagne are right along with you. You may also pick up a large margin of the "everyone has constants" crowd.

While I certainly wouldn't put it past him, I think the smirk might have been a red herring. Ben was just gleeful and feeling triumphant he can take advantage of another human being's tragedy cause that's the kind of swell guy he is. On the other hand, what reason would Widmore have to kill Nadia? Sayid didn't seem suspicious until Ben showed him the photos so I don't see any attempt to punish/control Sayid with this from Widmore. The only one who stands to benefit knowing what we know now is Ben. Until that changes... I guess I'm undecided on this.

Granted, I'm biased...but I'm really not sure Ben would stoop that low just to get Sayid in his ranks. Odds are, Sayid threatened to speak out about The Island, so Widmore (who we all know would have no problem whatsoever with taking out someone like Nadia) said, "OK. Let's see if you'll talker after this."

True, Ben smirked. But I agree with Claudia -- I think he was just happy with himself for being able to "play" Sayid.

Actually by 2005 I think Widmore's machine is pretty clueless to what really happened on the Island. Why else would the Widmore representative that also gave Naomi her orders ask Hurley (in the mental hospital) "Are they still alive?" I don't think Nadia's death could be making good on a threat if Sayid talked.

Here's another thought regarding Nadia, exclusive of Locke's interaction with her, she has always been in peril/a victim of violence when she is introduced into the story (initially with Sayid, Charlie rescuing her, and now dead). Like Charlie, was death ultimately her fate?

I think Ben was taking advantage of Nadia's death to make it look like the guy who was following Sayid killed her. Ben seemed quite surprised to see Sayid on the television, and I could see the wheels turning, trying to figure out how to turn that death to his advantage.

The smirk could go either way. But we are talking about Ben. Remember, Ben always gets what he wants. He is a master at manipulation. And since Alex's death, the rules have changed. So, yes I think Ben could very well be responsible for the death of Nadia to get Sayid on his side.

While I certainly wouldn't put it past him, I think the smirk might have been a red herring. Ben was just gleeful and feeling triumphant he can take advantage of another human being's tragedy cause that's the kind of swell guy he is. On the other hand, what reason would Widmore have to kill Nadia? Sayid didn't seem suspicious until Ben showed him the photos so I don't see any attempt to punish/control Sayid with this from Widmore. The only one who stands to benefit knowing what we know now is Ben. Until that changes... I guess I'm undecided on this.

I agree. Ben has resources and wouldn't have to choose Sayid to do his dirty work. Ben could have found someone else. However, Ben said he finds things people are emotional invested in and exploits it for his purpose.
Widmore has no reason to kill Nadia, unless Nadia was working for Paik. But according to what we have seen so far, Nadia was a freedom fighter for Iraq.
What if Paik killed Nadia and blamed it on Widmore? If Paik wants control of the Island, why not pit Ben against Widmore? He has been in the background for a while now. I wonder what he is up to?

I am very convinced that Ben arranged for Nadia's killing in order to recruit Sayid. that wicked half-smile he gave tells it all. A picture? I could make one like that in my own desktop. How could Sayid be so gullible?

Long time reader, first post...I kind of agree that Ben may have had some involvement in Nadia's death to provoke Sayid into working for him, but at the same time, Ben did look surprised to see Sayid on TV.

Either way, Ben is a master manipulator, just like when he manipulated Locke into blowing up the submarine - making Locke feel like it was Locke's own choice, when it was really what Ben wanted to happen. Alex even said that to Locke when she led him to the submarine, that her dad is good at manipulating people into doing things for him while at the same time making them feel like they are acting out of their own will.

I've also suspected Ben of having Danielle and Karl offed and I was wrong about that so I'm exercising more caution this time. However, the absence of a motive for Widmore (Sayid had no clue what Ben was talking about... he would have known if someone had tried to pressure him before) does certainly make me suspicious still.

OMG Great Posts!! My original thought was that Ben was pleased with himself for catching Sayid on TV and then manipulating him. I never thought about Ben arranging for Nadia to be killed in the first place.

Question, if Ben did arrange for Nadia to be killed, who is this man Ben had Sayid kill. Was he really the one that Ben manipulated into killing Nadia, or is he someone that plays a bigger part??

Granted, I'm biased...but I'm really not sure Ben would stoop that low just to get Sayid in his ranks. Odds are, Sayid threatened to speak out about The Island, so Widmore (who we all know would have no problem whatsoever with taking out someone like Nadia) said, "OK. Let's see if you'll talker after this."

True, Ben smirked. But I agree with Claudia -- I think he was just happy with himself for being able to "play" Sayid.

How about Paik trying to get Ben and Widmore to fight so they don't see him coming?

I don't think that Ben arranged the murder, but do believe he fully capitalised on Sayid's grief to manipulate him into joining the cause.

1) Ben was genuinely surprised to see Sayid on the telly saying he wanted to just mourn his wife.

2) Ben went to Tikrit and was taking pictures of the mysterious bald guy before he was caught and found out by Sayid. I think he was actually investigating his involvement. Note that no-one could initially see him take those pics of baldy so it wasn't 'staged'. Nor did Ben mention the shots he took in the camera or use them to convince Sayid. Instead he showed him a traffic cam shot already developed and tried to persuade him about the fact that baldy had come all this way to Tikrit for Nadia's funeral -- which, you have to admit is pretty fishy.

I do think Ben's smile was to show how manipulative he was in making Sayid want to join up with him because he's suffering from his tragedy, but I am in the camp that doesn't believe it was ALL Ben's machinations.

I love the idea of Paik playing Ben and Widmore against each other Too2strange, I hope that is what's going on here.

How about Paik trying to get Ben and Widmore to fight so they don't see him coming?

Definitely a possibility! The guy's got to enter the fray at some point, no? This would be a good introduction.

My gut still says Widmore, though. Like someone said a few posts ago, Ben looked truly surprised to see Sayid on TV. And then when Ben told the hitman he wanted him to deliver a message to Widmore...the guy wasn't exactly all "WTF? I work for you!" or "Widmore? Who's that?"

I'm pretty sure that everyone who thought Ben killed Alex and Danielle and that the freighties were bringing roses and champagne are right along with you. You may also pick up a large margin of the "everyone has constants" crowd.

Haha! I just made the same point in a different thread.

To me Ben's smirk was nothing more than his happiness at tricking Sayid into choosing to be his assassain. ("Go home Sayid, this isn't your war"... "I just lost the woman I love and searched for 8yrs, don't tell me this isn't my war! Who's next?!") Ben is not responsible for EVERY death on this show. He used her death to recruit Sayid, but he didn't orchestrate it IMO.
100%
I've also suspected Ben of having Danielle and Karl offed and I was wrong about that so I'm exercising more caution this time. However, the absence of a motive for Widmore (Sayid had no clue what Ben was talking about... he would have known if someone had tried to pressure him before) does certainly make me suspicious still.

Well if you follow the spoilers then there may be a Widmore reason:

In the spoiler about the 06 interview, when they get home, it's said that Sayid goes along with the cover story but is unhappy about it. If Widmore is behind the lie/cover story, then it's certainly possible that Sayid started to waiver, at some point, in his story and since killing one of the World-famous 06 would draw too much attention, he sent a message to Sayid by killing Nadia.

Haha! I just made the same point in a different thread.

Well if you follow the spoilers then there may be a Widmore reason: ...

Great minds think alike! ;)

If Widmore had something against Sayid, he wouldn't have let Sayid live out the year to see his wedding.
If Widmore was worried about the survivors, he wouldn't have allowed them to come back to the mainland. I don't think it will be so obvious.

Sayid is lost in grief and will believe anything to feel justified. Eventually, someone will talk sense into Sayid's killing spree and hopefully, Sayid will turn the gun on Ben... oh, did I say that? Sorry. I mean just STOP THE KILLING!

Question, if Ben did arrange for Nadia to be killed, who is this man Ben had Sayid kill. Was he really the one that Ben manipulated into killing Nadia, or is he someone that plays a bigger part??

What if this guy wasn't actually who Ben told Sayid he was? What if he was trying to locate Ben not keep an eye on Sayid? He seemed somewhat confused by Ben's "message" to Widmore. What if he doesn't even work for Widmore at all ... maybe he was just another sacrifice :eek2:

As you can tell I believe Ben to be the devil himself :biggrin:

How about Paik trying to get Ben and Widmore to fight so they don't see him coming?
While I'm leaning toward Ben, mainly due to the smirk, this idea blows my mind.

While I'm leaning toward Ben, mainly due to the smirk, this idea blows my mind.

Ben manipulates people, kills when he needs to. Why would Ben need to use Sayid? Ben could get anyone to do his dirty work. Perhaps this way he gets Sayid back to the Island in the end? Ben didn't want anyone to leave. Not sure why not, yet. Ben leaves all the time.