I actually brought this up in another thread, but I think it deserves its own...

In the box that Ben pulls out, which is hidden away in some rocks, he pulls out the Soda Crackers which are kept in a tin with the Swan station logo. Could this mean that someone from the Swan station had hidden it there-- 15 years ago? And, if so, whom? The only Swansters we know of are Desmond, Radzinsky and Inman.

If the Soda Crackers are 15 years old (per Ben) and Radzinsky and Inman didn't arrive at the hatch until 1991, making it only 13 years (per Lostpedia), who manned the Swan before them? And why would they be placing a box up there which is obviously meant to signal someone at the Orchid.

Who is at the Orchid to receive this signal? Marvin Candle?

I would say it belonged to Inman or Radinsky as they were known to be exploring the Island ( ie. the blast door map). I guess the dates don't exactly match...but 13 yrs vs 15 yrs could just simply be Ben not being precise(as he is being sarcastic).

It could have been placed there to warn anyone manning the Orchid of the approach of the Hostiles. Or someone perhaps Ben was spying on the folks at the Orchid.

I would say it belonged to Inman or Radinsky as they were known to be exploring the Island ( ie. the blast door map). I guess the dates don't exactly match...but 13 yrs vs 15 yrs could just simply be Ben not being precise(as he is being sarcastic).

It could have been placed there to warn anyone manning the Orchid of the approach of the Hostiles. Or someone perhaps Ben was spying on the folks at the Orchid.

I wouldn't agree with this assessment based on:

1. The difference in years. The writers need to be very precise with the timeline and wouldn't just throw something out there like that.

2. Because of the other items in the box, it is obviously meant to be there to signal someone up at the Orchid station. I would think Inman and Radzinsky, though exploring the island, were not in contact with anyone. Radzinsky blew his head off.


I would say that the approach of the hostiles is valid and it makes me think of Mikhail for some reason...can't say why exactly other than Mikhail seemed to be Ben's man out in the field.

I think that Ben was signaling to Richard but I am not convinced that Richard was at the Orchid Station. I think Richard was at the Temple! Richard and the Others are heading towards the Orchid to rendezvous or save Ben when they stumble upon Kate and Sayid in the jungle.

The question I have is why is Ben keeping this from Locke and Hurley. When Locke asks Ben what did he say, Ben responds "None of your Business!" At this point, what's the big deal in keeping this from Locke and Hurley?

Also, didn't Keamy and the other Frieghter troops kill Rouseau and Karl very close to the Temple? If so, and Richard was in fact at the Temple, why didn't Richard and the Others fight the Frieghter troops when they were closer to them?

I wouldn't agree with this assessment based on:

1. The difference in years. The writers need to be very precise with the timeline and wouldn't just throw something out there like that.

2. Because of the other items in the box, it is obviously meant to be there to signal someone up at the Orchid station. I would think Inman and Radzinsky, though exploring the island, were not in contact with anyone. Radzinsky blew his head off.


I would say that the approach of the hostiles is valid and it makes me think of Mikhail for some reason...can't say why exactly other than Mikhail seemed to be Ben's man out in the field.

Then if it was a Swan worker,it wouldn't be Mikhail cuz he was not with the DI.
Don't you think it could be someone who was spying on the Orchid...learning of its secrets.....Mikhail then or Tom? When did Mikhail arrive?

I think that Ben was signaling to Richard but I am not convinced that Richard was at the Orchid Station. I think Richard was at the Temple! Richard and the Others are heading towards the Orchid to rendezvous or save Ben when they stumble upon Kate and Sayid in the jungle.

The question I have is why is Ben keeping this from Locke and Hurley. When Locke asks Ben what did he say, Ben responds "None of your Business!" At this point, what's the big deal in keeping this from Locke and Hurley?

Also, didn't Keamy and the other Frieghter troops kill Rouseau and Karl very close to the Temple? If so, and Richard was in fact at the Temple, why didn't Richard and the Others fight the Frieghter troops when they were closer to them?

This would make sense except I would think if they weren't heading up in that direction after signaling, Locke would know. Didn't they head up in that direction after?
100%
Then if it was a Swan worker,it wouldn't be Mikhail cuz he was not with the DI.
Don't you think it could be someone who was spying on the Orchid...learning of its secrets.....Mikhail then or Tom? When did Mikhail arrive?


Mikhail originally said he was with DI. I can't remember, but was it ever revealed that he lied about this?

With the mirror in the box, I would assume that:

1) The box is meant to signal, not spy. Perhaps the binoculars and soda crackers are meant to be there in case one has to wait for the receiver of said signal to appear.

2) Who was at the top of the mountain awaiting Ben's signal? Richard would be the obvious guess, but supposedly he is at the Temple and Ben, Locke and Hurley headed up to where Ben signaled. No?

Anyone could have gotten it off a pallet drop.

Anyone could have gotten it off a pallet drop.

I'm really surprised by the lack of interest in what I perceive to be a couple of clues. What would be the writers' intent to put 15 year soda crackers with a Swan logo in that hidden box? It was so explicitly mentioned.

I suspect that it was there from the days when Ben was a mole for the Hostiles. He was probably feeding them info. It is odd though that the crackers came from the Swan. I do wonder if there weren't more than just Ben among the DI who was spying for the hostiles.

What was the purpose of the crackers? To show what a pig Hurley is? I mean, would anyone reading this eat something you found under a rock? I find that hard to believe.

And this was obviously quite a hike, who originally made this trek carrying a bag of crackers, of all things? And then felt the need to save them by putting them in the tin? Whoever it was must have thought they'd be back soon, and probably hungry for crackers. I don't know, if it was me, I'd probably have brought something canned. Stale crackers suck.

I think the crackers were left there because at the time, someone was making regular visits to that site, and passing on information on a regular basis. At some point, the need to go there ceased. Horace said 12 years since the purge, Ben said the crackers were 15 years old. Ben could have been over-estimating the length of time the crackers were there.

Maybe it was Ben and Annie's secret meeting place! :grin:

I see what you are talking about; the tin itself has a different logo than the rest of the Dharma food. I don't think those are from the same drop that we've seen. Then again, Dharma was still on the island and alive when they were made so there might have been supplies for each of the stations; it seems like a heck of a complicated manufacturing strategy just to feed a limited number of scientists and workers though.

I think Hurley ate the cracker as a plot device so that we could find out how long it has been since anything happened (or since something happened) at the Orchid. Otherwise, it might not seem as natural for Ben to just spill this information.

I think you may be on to something though. Does anyone have an instance of cracker boxes or tins being shown before in the show so we can compare them?

There was a scene in the jungle where I think Sawyer sees Hurley's stash of food. There were tins there. I think it's the one where Hurley and Sawyer go looking for the frog.

hmmmmmm, how close were they to the orchid when they opened the tin? Assuming ben was contacting the Others it seems nearly the 'temple' ....maybe the 15 years is more related to the temple

The 15 years could also refer to the last time the island had to be moved, since it's apparently part of the process.

The 15 years could also refer to the last time the island had to be moved, since it's apparently part of the process.

I definitely agree. I think the island was moved to prevent non-island Dharma from coming and retaliating after the purge. This also makes me believe even more that the "drop" is actually a single incident that is reoccurring over and over in increments of a few months since Dharma would no longer have the coordinates to send the food.

Like the rabbit dropping in the Orchid video.

aha!!! Kate would like to eat crackers with Jack...for their upset stomachs, of course!!!

sorry...just had to

maybe they were poisoned and Ben saved Hurley

I'm really surprised by the lack of interest in what I perceive to be a couple of clues. What would be the writers' intent to put 15 year soda crackers with a Swan logo in that hidden box? It was so explicitly mentioned.

I think the "15 years" is the important clue here. The swan logo appears on all the island food. I don't understand WHY all the food is marked with the swan. But even in Otherville the food in Ben's house is Swan stamped.

Dharma Wine (http://www.lostisagame.com/photos/404/dharma_logo_wine.jpg)

As for the 15 years, I think that was when the island last required moving. I think that when Danielle changed the signal in the radio tower from the numbers to her own distress signal, it put the island in danger of being found.

Why the crackers? Maybe the signaling doesn't always go as quickly. Or maybe the last person who visited there just happened to be snacking on the crackers, and left them behind. I also like the idea someone had that maybe the moving process makes the mover queasy, and the crackers are to settle the stomach.

I think Ben put it there. That he stashed crackers for the Swan station isn't particularly significant. He delivered stuff to the Swan station all the time. But this was pre-purge, and it's a place for communicating with an Other/Hostiles sentry post on the ridge. That alone means Ben almost certainly is the one who put it there. The fact that he recognized the pile of rocks after 15 years, pretty much seals it.

I don't think the sentry post on the ridge is necessarily close to the Orchid, but since it was manned, I would assume it's close to the Temple, where the Others were.

I'm probably way off base, but the box, the tin inside the box, the crackers, the mirror. All reminded me of stuff kids on a hike in the woods would have with them.

Like a couple of boys playing, hiding signaling each other.

I just get the feeling that the box was there, because Ben left it there as kid.

I'm probably way off base, but the box, the tin inside the box, the crackers, the mirror. All reminded me of stuff kids on a hike in the woods would have with them.

Like a couple of boys playing, hiding signaling each other.

I just get the feeling that the box was there, because Ben left it there as kid.

Nah, somebody returned his signal. Which means somebody was waiting for his signal. And they understood his signal. If the crackers weren't eaten in 15 years, one might even assume the same person, who can understand the signal, was up there to receive it 15 years ago.

If the purge was 12 years ago, then those crackers were placed there before the purge. I think signaling to Richard is plausible because that might have been how a young Ben signaled to him previously.

If he was signaling to Richard, then he was warning him about Kate and Sayid, it would seem. How would Ben know this?

Although, I still think it is strange that Ben would be signaling to The Temple and then heading in a different direction to The Orchid without Locke questioning it.

I'm guessing it's someone else like Mikhail (oh, wouldn't that be fun-tastic!) or Marvin Candle.

I agree that it is odd that Locke does not pressure Ben for more information after being told "It's none of your business" and them heading off in a different direction from where Ben was signaling too. However, if you watch the scene again, Ben was signaling to someone on top of the distant mountain. No where is Ben, Hurley and Locke climbing up the side of a mountain on their quest to the Orchid. Furthermore, they seemed to arrive very quickly at the Orchid compared to the distance of where Ben was signaling too. It also seemed to me that Locke and Hurley were surprised when Ben told them to "get down as they approached the Orchid station". Perhaps, Hurley and Locke were envisioning a much longer walk to whoever Ben was talking too?...

I still believe that Ben was signaling to Richard at the Temple and instructing Richard and the rest of the Others to head out from the Temple to the Orchid.

I think the "15 years" is the important clue here. The swan logo appears on all the island food. I don't understand WHY all the food is marked with the swan. But even in Otherville the food in Ben's house is Swan stamped.Yes! Mikhail had Swan-branded items in the Flame as well. I doubt they would have produced different labels for each station. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the production crew were simply reusing an earlier prop.

As for the 15 years, I think that was when the island last required moving. I think that when Danielle changed the signal in the radio tower from the numbers to her own distress signal, it put the island in danger of being found.Somehow, I think they would have just changed the signal back. Besides, they had the Looking Glass for things like that.

Yes! Mikhail had Swan-branded items in the Flame as well. I doubt they would have produced different labels for each station. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the production crew were simply reusing an earlier prop.

Somehow, I think they would have just changed the signal back. Besides, they had the Looking Glass for things like that.

Placing this 15 years is intriguing. It also makes me think, and I wonder if this was brought up before, if Danielle was there 16 years prior, Alex was kidnapped a week after birth (also sixteen years) and the purge only happened 12 years ago, then that means Alex was raised for four years with the Others and not in custody of Ben.

So Ben became a father when Alex was 4. Wouldn't Alex remember this stranger all of a sudden being "daddy"? I remember being 4. Heck, I remember some things at 2.

Boy, I'd love to see that flashback!

Ok, my question is: Would saltines, apparently already opened (or did Hurley tear into an unopened pack?), left outside in a tin inside a box in a tropical environment last 15 years and still be even remotely edible?!? I would think that any bread product would tend to mold and decay fairly rapidly under those circumstances...

Might Ben have been yanking Hugo's chain?

-AJF

Its Dharma food, who knows how long the life span is on it, or what it has added in it to make it last longer.

I think its an interesting thought about Ben putting it their as a kid, it could of been where he went to meet the hostiles from time to time.

I like it was Ben too, but he wasn't a kid 15 years ago - he may however have been a young man who wanted to get away from the DI for a while.

With a friend maybe? (and I don't mean Horace!)

Yes, Ben would have been thirty years old 15 years ago. And I think the island was moved right after the purge, so the 15 might be a slight exaggeration from 12 or the two things aren't related... signaling the Temple and the Orchid moving the island.

The crackers were in an old MRE type tin. There would have been more than just crackers in there when it was new.

The bag of crackers was already opened, and yeah, I don't know how the crackers survived the moisture, but they were crunchy.

Ben may have been doing some illicit time hopping and using his crackers medicinal properties. Katie recommends them as an anti emetic.

What other treasures might the tin hold indeed! one thing's for certain though, looking at the rope, the gag - sorry rag, and :eek2: ...optical equipment? if Ben was there with a lady;

dating him is no picnic. :biggrin:

I think Ben put it there. That he stashed crackers for the Swan station isn't particularly significant. He delivered stuff to the Swan station all the time. But this was pre-purge, and it's a place for communicating with an Other/Hostiles sentry post on the ridge. That alone means Ben almost certainly is the one who put it there. The fact that he recognized the pile of rocks after 15 years, pretty much seals it.

I don't think the sentry post on the ridge is necessarily close to the Orchid, but since it was manned, I would assume it's close to the Temple, where the Others were.

Agreed. Ben had come across this situation before. Kinda like Groundhog's day. Something went awry along the original timeline, Ben needed to know how to correct it, so he went back in time to place the box there at that exact location with those exact things in the box. The crackers were something he knew to give to Hugo becuase Hugo had given him a candy bar earlier, and it was Ben's idea of saying, "Thanks for the candy bar."

I think that perhaps Ben used to go to that spot to communicate with the "Hostiles" before the Purge, maybe even with his childhood Dharma girlfriend. I can't remember how old she was when she died. He most likely had regular contact planning things with Richard and his band of merry men & women for years after meeting Richard in the jungle.

I'm getting an awful feeling that something bad happened to Annie during Ben's initiation with the Hostiles and maybe he blames himself for that. I'm not sure why I think that, just a gnawing feeling. Do we have any idea how old Annie was when she died? Or maybe she joined the Hostiles and died pregnant with Ben's baby??? If she was pregnant, she may have been eating SODA CRACKERS for nausea!!!

Genius or a bunch of hullabullooo? Who knows.

Agreed. Ben had come across this situation before. Kinda like Groundhog's day. Something went awry along the original timeline, Ben needed to know how to correct it, so he went back in time to place the box there at that exact location with those exact things in the box. The crackers were something he knew to give to Hugo becuase Hugo had given him a candy bar earlier, and it was Ben's idea of saying, "Thanks for the candy bar."

Locke gave the crackers to Hurley, not Ben.

Oh yeah, and you DO NOT give someone saltine crackers in return for a candy bar. That's just rude!

They are Ben's own cookies, he left there 15 years ago. That's how he knows the right age.

I see what you are talking about; the tin itself has a different logo than the rest of the Dharma food. I don't think those are from the same drop that we've seen. Then again, Dharma was still on the island and alive when they were made so there might have been supplies for each of the stations; it seems like a heck of a complicated manufacturing strategy just to feed a limited number of scientists and workers though.

I think Hurley ate the cracker as a plot device so that we could find out how long it has been since anything happened (or since something happened) at the Orchid. Otherwise, it might not seem as natural for Ben to just spill this information.

I think you may be on to something though. Does anyone have an instance of cracker boxes or tins being shown before in the show so we can compare them?

Exactly, the crackers were plot device. There would have been no reason for Ben to even tell them how long that crate had been there.

And let's not forget that Ben was a workman like his father and on Roger's jumpsuit (though not Ben's, even though it said Work Man as well) there's a swan logo. They worked ferrying things too and from the swan so to have a tin with the logo would be no big thing.

The clue in that scene is the fifteen years.

And someone else mention that Radzinsky and Inman weren't in the swan then did it ever say that Radzinsky and Kelvin came at the same time? I'll have to check, but I thought or maybe just assumed, Radzinsky was there first and Kelvin came later.

Exactly, the crackers were plot device. There would have been no reason for Ben to even tell them how long that crate had been there.

And let's not forget that Ben was a workman like his father and on Roger's jumpsuit (though not Ben's, even though it said Work Man as well) there's a swan logo. They worked ferrying things too and from the swan so to have a tin with the logo would be no big thing.

The clue in that scene is the fifteen years.

And someone else mention that Radzinsky and Inman weren't in the swan then did it ever say that Radzinsky and Kelvin came at the same time? I'll have to check, but I thought or maybe just assumed, Radzinsky was there first and Kelvin came later.

Totally agree, this was important information. Especially, because in my mind, the numbers don't add up.

12 years since the purge
15 years since the soda crackers were placed there.
16 years since Alex was kidnapped.

This, to me at least, is a whole other era of the island. (pun intended) I look forward to flashbacks of Danielle and Ben and Annie and Marvin Candle. There's so much more info that we don't have.